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Decoction

Post #1 made 15 years ago
by Two If By Sea
I'm going to try my hand at a true decoction for a clementine wit. I plan on decocting 3.00 lbs. White Wheat, 2.00 lbs. Pale Malt(6-row), and 1.00 lbs. Flaked Oats in one pot and mash 3.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) and 0.13 lbs. Sauer(acid) Malt in my BIAB rig. Any good advice, hints, anecdotes, horror stories, blogs, or whatever out there on decoction and BIAB?

Thanks in advance!

Plans so far:
Get main mash to 122F (water volume still TBD)
Cereal mash at 2.5 qts/# at 113F for 15 minutes
Rise to 152F and hold for 15 minutes
Bring to boil, stir constantly, for 15 minutes
Pour into main mash
....how do you figure what temp you'd get the main mash to? (150-155F) Calculators I've seen target a volume to reach a temp, I've got a set volume.... :?:
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Post #3 made 15 years ago
by Ralph
Hey 2XC, to be honest when working a decoction out, I found it so difficult to get anything to predict volumes and temps reliably, so I now just wing it every time but also leave some room for an adjustment infusion addition. The one time I wasn't able to adjust with the infusion and temp was just too low, I just re- decocted a kilo or so, so no biggie. My empirical guide: In my 19L stockpot, from protein rest (50- 55C) to low- mashed saccharification (63- 65C) needs 3.5- 4kg of thick decoct, that is usually about 17L in total.
Beachbum's recent partial demo may help with cereal mash, I've never done it, seems fairly straight- forward though and I know his malt liquor is a real cracker.
Hope this helps! :drink:
Last edited by Ralph on 18 Dec 2010, 05:13, edited 5 times in total.
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]

Post #4 made 15 years ago
by Beachbum
Yes decoction has always terrified me as I'm no mathematician. With a cereal mash I don't have any problems as it's just a small pot and I can make temperature adjustments rapidly if required, then let the cereal mash cool down to the same temp as the main mash before pouring it in.
Dunno about the malt liquor, I slugged a 40 of it straight down the other night and ended up crawling around the floor wailing "leave Britney alone you Bastards".... :o - reckon I'll stick to my far weaker 6% standard ales.

Post #5 made 15 years ago
by Ralph
Aye Beachbum! Know what you mean with the stronger stuff, my latest >7% Dortmunder (hyperattenuated) meant that most of yesterday was a complete and utter write- off. :idiot: Not game to even think about what would've happened on malt liquor/ crazy juice, I'm not a fan of Brittney, will it turn me into one? :evil:
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]

Post #6 made 15 years ago
by Two If By Sea
This would be a bit more than a cereal mash as there is 6# of grains in the decoction and 3.13# of grains in the main mash. I'm thinking I may want to start my mash at 122F and then do my decoction then chill that down to my desired mash temperature by adding more cold water and time. Then pour that into the main mash. If anything, it should end up being cooler than my target so I can add heat to bring it up then proceed with normal BIAB. I'll get my water quantities a little on the low side and top off the wort before I boil. Sound about right?
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Post #7 made 15 years ago
by Two If By Sea
Or...do the 122F mash. Do the decoction. Pour enough of the decoction into the mash to bring the whole thing to 152F and hold back the rest. Mash for 60 minutes then pour the rest of the decoction in to rise towards mash out temperatures. Proceed with normal BIAB. A little easier and should get the same results, no?
Blog: http://littlehouseonthesandpit.wordpress.com/
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Post #8 made 15 years ago
by Ralph
I'd definitely go the latter course, but consider reserving some strike water, heat it/ add cool to tweak temperature as need be. The remaining reserved decoct may cool quite a bit though during the mash, I'm wondering if it would be better to do a separate mashout decoction in this case.
Also, is it 6lb of dry grain or 6lb of the mash (i.e. wet grain + some amount of liquor)? Presuming from your OP and with this being a cereal mash that its 6lb of dry grain, but I know I've asked myself this question when doing ordinary decoctions from calculated amounts. If that's the case, is there any need to have so much of it in the decoction? (Note that I'm fairly naive to cereal mashing.)
There's so many ways to dice this one! :scratch:
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]

Post #9 made 15 years ago
by Two If By Sea
It is based on Doc's (from the BN) wit recipe. His decoction/cereal mash involves the wheat, 6 row and oats, in this case 6# of grains. I was thinking of direct firing my kettle if the final mash mixture is below my temps. I figure 150-155 will do well so if I shoot for 155 with the decoction temp before stirring into the mash I should be able to get right into the window and hopefully not have to much adjustment. I may even have to leave out some of the decoction, but I'm thinking I won't. I'll dump the decoction in and flame on to rise to mash out temperatures.

The big question is, do I look for some raw wheat to replace my mistake or will a cereal mash on malted white wheat give me similar results?
Blog: http://littlehouseonthesandpit.wordpress.com/
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Post #10 made 14 years ago
by Two If By Sea
Ok, here we go Wit plan:

Main Mash
3.5 # Belgian 2 row
.25# acidulated malt
Total=3.75#

Decoction
3.19# Raw wheat (ground)
2.5# American 6 row
1.05# Oats (ground)
Total=6.74#

.5oz Northern Brewer First Wort Hop
.3oz Saaz 30 minute
Zest of 4 clementines 1 minute
1 Tablespoon white flour 15 minute
.5oz Chamomile
.3oz Saaz 5 minute
.5oz Coriander 5 minute
WLP 400

Water Volumes
Absorption: 10.49# x 0.05 gallons/# = 0.52 gallons
Batch Volume: 5 gallons
Boil Off: 90 minutes x 2 gallons/hr = 3 gallons
Total: 0.52+5+3 = 9.02 gallons
Decoct: try 17 qts (4.25 gallons) / 6.74# = 2.52 qts/gallon (goal 2-3)
Mash: 9.02 gallons - 4.25 gallons = 4.77 gallons

Pot 4.77 gallons and 3.75# of grain for main mash at 122F, set aside
Pot 4.25 gallons and 6.74# of grain for first step at 113F for 15 minutes
Raise to 152F and hold for 15 minutes
Raise to boil and boil for 15 minutes
Add portion (or all) to main mash for target of 155F (direct fire kettle or hold back decoction volume as needed) rest for 45 minutes
Raise to 160F for 15 minutes
Yank the bag pitch first wort hops
Squeeze the bag add liquid to boil kettle check for 8.5 gallons preboil volume adjust as needed
Begin 90 minute boil
30 minute hops
15 minute immersion chiller, flour
10 minute orange zest
5 minute hops
Flame out coriander, chamomile
Chill to 64F
Aerate, pitch yeast

Now I've got to decide if I have time to do it this weekend so I need a starter tomorrow, or wait until next weekend.
Last edited by Two If By Sea on 20 Jan 2011, 08:16, edited 6 times in total.
Blog: http://littlehouseonthesandpit.wordpress.com/
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Post #11 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Thanks for taking the time to keep us informed of your thoughts and progress on this 2xC. I've never done a decoction and if I ever do, I fear it will only be once as it sounds like way too much work :argh:. Just wanted to let you know that there are probably a few others like me who are reading and learning from your posts above so :luck:
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Post #12 made 14 years ago
by Two If By Sea
Thanks! This will be my second decoction. The first one was an informal partigyle off a big beer. It (or something else) really brought a dimension to that beer. Much like the steinbeir had this something you couldn't put your finger on but it was there.

I was thinking....should the acidulated malt be split between the two pots? Meaning does a cereal/decotion benefit from correct pH range like a mash does?

Got a wake to go to this weekend so looks like next weekend. Plenty of time to change things a million more times. :P
Blog: http://littlehouseonthesandpit.wordpress.com/
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Post #17 made 14 years ago
by Two If By Sea
Image
Lagging to the max! 0C outside temperatures....wait, lagging? Celsius? Been on here too long ;)
Image
Slow chill in a snowbank. Got below 80F (HA!) in 1.5 hours. Had to chip away some ice on my sanitizer bucket to get at my siphon!

Lots more on my blog.
Last edited by Two If By Sea on 01 Feb 2011, 07:42, edited 5 times in total.
Blog: http://littlehouseonthesandpit.wordpress.com/
Facebook BIAB Group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7 ... 978&ref=nf

Post #19 made 14 years ago
by stux
Should make eis bock :)
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12
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