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Hops stands vs 0min additions and Slow Chill

Post #1 made 10 years ago
by chesl73
I noticed in the new Gordon Strong book a few of his recipes ask for a hop stand and the recipe might say something like:
Centennial + 10 mins.

I've just had a read about hop stands as it was new to me and I've a few questions I'm hoping you more experienced brewers can help me with..

- What does the + 10 mins mean? Does this mean add the hops at flameout for 10mins and then take them out (via a hopsock) or does it mean let the kettle stand for 10 mins and then put the hops in (and just throw them in I presume?) - and how long for?
- How is this any different to adding hops at 0min boil time for aroma? It appears to me to be exactly the same thing, particularly if you don't chill your wort immediately but do an overnight slow-chill (which I do) - in this case, the hops are sitting in the cooling wort all night in both cases.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated - particularly 'Joshua' as I know from previous posts he employs all of the above :salute:

Thanks

Post #2 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Chesl73, I do not have Gordon's Book, But, The Hop Stand Starts AT Flame out.

The Old System was 'XX' minutes before Flame-out, or 'yy' Minutes into the Boil.

The Hop Stand uses time FROM Flameout, so he is recommending using the Hops FOR 10 minutes after Flame out.

Aroma Hops work the same way.

If you have an Hour to kill, Check my Post about "Late Wort Hopping" at http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=150&t=2215
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Hops stands vs 0min additions and Slow Chill

Post #3 made 10 years ago
by Contrarian
Hop stands don't have to start at flame out. I know some brewers who will wait for half an hour or more before doing a 30 minute hop stand.

What you do should depend on what you are targeting and what your process is. So with slow chill in the kettle if you are chasing more aroma you might wait until the wort was down around 80C before adding hops so try spent less time at utilization temperatures.

I've had good results waiting about half an hour after flameout and then adding hops to the whirlpool but I then transfer to a cube for storage so that will make a difference.

Try a few things and see what gets the best results for your system.

Post #5 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
I'm really liking Gordon Strong's book as the terms used are defined to a degree I have never seen before although there are still a few holes if we want them to get up to CBT standard. I'll write to see if I can find an answer to those few holes.

When you are trying to copy a recipe, you'll find that The BIABacus is the only program that really focusses on how you manage late addition hops and creates fields where you can efficiently convey that info to others. Have a read here because that is the thinking behind Section G of The BIABacus. I think you can see that if every bit of software used section G, threads like this would be totally unnecessary. That one section, while it looks simple now, took well over a hundred hours of thought and many revisions to get into a compact form, but it is a section that is easily overlooked, like so many other sections of The BIABacus.

In other words, unless the author of the recipe provides enough detail, you really are just guessing and most recipe templates/software give you almost no critical information. Weird but true.

:smoke:
Last edited by PistolPatch on 08 Dec 2015, 22:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Hops stands vs 0min additions and Slow Chill

Post #6 made 10 years ago
by Contrarian
There are so many variables when it comes to hop additions that it is practically impossible to predict exactly what they will deliver.

How have they been handled since picking through transport and storage, how long have you had them etc etc.

Everyone's systems are also so completely different that even the most precise information will produce different results on a different system.

For example, I might say that after flame out wait for 30 minutes then do a hop stand for 30 minutes, then whirlpool and let settle for 20 minutes before transferring to the cube.

Or I could say after flame out wait until the wort temperature has dropped to 85C before doing a hop stand for 30 minutes etc.

Neither of these approaches will be that accurate as both rely heavily on ambient temperature, wort volume, kettle insulation factors and on and on.

Given all the variables I think the best we can do as home brewers is to understand our own systems and work out what approach makes beer that we enjoy.

Post #7 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Contrarian, Since the Wort is not Boiling in your Face, you CAN sample the Hop Stand "Sweet Liquor", and Pull the Flavor Hops when you want, and Chill the Liquor, when the Aroma is Over powering.

Hop Stand give you More Control of the Liquor, just before Pitching.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Hops stands vs 0min additions and Slow Chill

Post #8 made 10 years ago
by Contrarian
You sure can but that's a fairly subjective measure and once again comes down to personal taste. The original post was also about chilling in the kettle rather than using a chiller so that's a different kettle of fish.

I never use a hop sock but even if you do remember that the volatiles and alpha acids are still in the wort when you pull the hop sock. Once again, more if an issue if you are no chilling.

Post #9 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Chilling in the Kettle gives you 1 hour for Small Batches to 3-4 Hours with BIG batches to Play with Hops.
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Isn't the Idea of Homebrewing to make Beer you Like, and NOT copy Mega-Swill that we can Buy??
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And to make UP recipes like 1000 types of SMaSH beers, So Many Hops, and So many Pale Grains, Not to mention Hundreds of Yeasts.
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Last edited by joshua on 09 Dec 2015, 07:38, edited 1 time in total.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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