Thoughts on Beer, Brewing, Microbrews & Macrobrews

Post #1 made 9 years ago
Admittedly this is going to be a long ramble… Just different things that have been on my mind over the past few weeks concerning beer and brewing.

I started lurking on this site well over a year ago, and started BIAB whole grain brewing right after getting a bunch of new equipment Christmas last year. Have to say, beer quality has went through the roof! My beer is really good now…

With Lager brewing, lacking a temperature controlled fermentation vessel, I brew with the seasons...which in Western Oregon (USA) that means lagers can be brewed in the winter only. Put the fermentation vessel inside a larger garbage can with water and keep it in my garage…and keeps my lagers between 51 and 53 degrees F depending on how cold things are…usually +/- 1 degree Fahrenheit. Good ale can be brewed in this manner in fall & spring, or in the winter if I use a fish tank heater in the garbage can water to warm temperature up. Pretty warm in the summer so I avoid brewing then.

Really like a lot of the European style pilsners, so brewed a German Pils and a Vienna the day after Christmas last year. (Made for a VERY long day). Added a Czech Pilsner at the end of February…and then a Dry Irish Stout in April. So that is just four BIABs under my belt. There were a lot of concerns over things that didn’t seem to go so perfectly at the time. And really there were concerns over pretty much everything that I’ve brewed. Nothing went exactly perfect, regardless. That said, overall the beers were VERY good.

German Pilsner, think I got a tad too much bittering hops and perhaps a tad too little aroma hops at the end. Should be easy to fix that for next time. That 5 gallon Corney keg was polished off in June. The Vienna was very good and will likely brew it again with the same recipe. It was gone in mid July. The Czech Pilsner, I tried to keep it lagering without drinking until the German Pilsner was gone (with limited success)… Have a kegerator with 3 taps but room for up to 6 Corneys. I had to connect the picnic faucet with short hose to the Czech Pilsner so I could do some sampling before it was put on regular tap… Initially I felt the Czech Pilsner was a tad too hoppy but a few months of lagering seems to have really helped and it is drinking just awesome now – over 5 months from when it was brewed. All of these lagers are just over 5% ABV, so for me that is a good thing, try to keep the alcohol content manageable so that beer is “session-able”.

With the Dry Irish Stout, I made a couple mistakes…undershot the planned 4.2 ABV, ended up with like 3.7% ABV or so… And the dark malt didn’t get ground up fine enough so the brew is not as dark as it should be. Still good. Recipe called for British Pale Ale Malt. My local home brew shop wasn’t sure exactly what that was and wanted to sell me American 2-Row Malt… I chose British Maris Otter Malt, figured it was likely closer. (Are they the same...? I don't know.) The MO grain tasted a little better, so went with that. Happy with this one and will try to fix my mistakes next time.

But even with some mistakes, whole grain beer I’ve brewed with BIAB is much better than Macro beers… Stacks up there with the better Micros. A couple nights ago I was drinking several glasses of the Czech Pilsner, and sampled one Coronita (7 ounce Corona my daughter’s boyfriend had left in the fridge). Corona was garbage in comparison to the BIAB homebrew! Also, my 18 year old son took a post high school graduation trip to Ireland & part of UK for 3 ½ weeks and brought back some macro brews from over there… One was a pretty decent Special Bitter from Scotland. Can't remember the middle two, decent but nothing super special. Polished off the last beer last night, an Irish Red…that was decent but not great. The homebrew is better; way better! Wonder if this is just the difference between having a “fresh” kegged beer, or if macro brews put things in their beer that they shouldn’t? Googled it and came up with an article from the “Food Babe”… http://foodbabe.com/2013/07/17/the-shoc ... s-in-beer/ Depending on brewer, lots of weird stuff is going in…and not the best flavor with most Macros, and I can attest to that. Maybe that’s why I tend not to like most of the Macro beer brewing company’s products...? :scratch: ;)

Most microbreweries have some good products, I think. Here in the USA’s Pacific Northwest, American style India Pale Ale is hugely popular, and I’m not a big fan. Many are unbalanced in my opinion with out of balance hops. Also they tend to be “bigger” beers, of 6.5 to 7.5% ABV normally. Which means I have to drink less beer… I normally shoot for 5 to 5 ½% ABV. It can be challenging to find good beer in this ABV range. To each his own. I sometimes can enjoy an IPA, if it is on the lighter side for the style and well balanced. (Some here might call this kind of product offering a British style IPA). With homebrewing, it should be that we drink less microbrewery beer. Right? But like the good home cook, it’s nice to sample other people’s cooking as well… So it might actually increase wanting to drink other’s beer. (Maybe I should find a homebrew group to join…).

Thoughts for the future:
It would be nice to speed up how long it takes to brew beer. I normally take close to 6 hours with setup, brewing and clean-up. I know it’s supposed to be less time consuming with BIAB (and maybe it is – I’ve never brewed conventional 3-vessel before)… At least it is much less equipment that I have to find room for in my garage, and clean when finishing brewing for the day. People on some sites still say BIAB’s efficiency is low. My efficiency is higher than what is estimated in the BCS book for their recipes. And my thought was if the BIAB process ends up being a little simpler with less “moving parts”, who cares if I end up needing to add a few percentage points more ingredients to get good beer…? Hasn’t happened yet, efficiency has been fine, but that’s the thought.

For the Kegerator, need to add a 4th tap, and expand my 4 Corneys by 2, so end up with 6 Corney kegs. (More room for lagering). Next brew up will likely be an APA (American Pale Ale) at end of September or first of October (hopefully my existing brews can last that long…may not) I’m thinking this winter to brew the same ones brewed last winter, and maybe add another Pilsner…with perhaps Santiam hops. I live next to the Santiam river and was raised in the Santiam canyon. Supposed to be much like Tettnanger hops but was bred here closer to home. Not sure on the malt for that brew, might need to keep with the European pilsner malt but maybe I would try a US pilsner malt on that if there was something good. I’m a little afraid of trying a non-German yeast, but maybe I would try something else, different from what I’ve been using for this Pilsner, see if it winds up as good as the others…

Would be fun to retire and take a drive across the country and visit tons of microbreweries like Old Goat and his wife are doing… Checked out his blog the other night and showed my wife a picture. She said “hey, he’s not old, he’s about my age”… :drink: Me too. Now the wife thinks us buying a vehicle so we can travel the country sounds like fun. (Love to travel but am not sure that much driving is all that fun, have to do too much of it for my job. :headhit: Thanks Old Goat! ;) ).

And thank you, for all of you that have given me as much help as you have over the past year! :thumbs: You know who you all are… Pat, Joshua, Rick, Gooligan, JHough, Mad Scientist, Mally, and I’m missing a bunch of others so no offense if your name doesn't come to mind at the moment. Cheers, and keep brewing!
Last edited by Scott on 03 Aug 2015, 05:25, edited 4 times in total.
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Post #3 made 9 years ago
:dream: Hey Josh, to get great beer, that I only have to walk to my garage and the kegerator and pour it...beer that rivals the best Micros (not all of which are available in my area) - if that takes 6 hours a session and there's not a good way to cut it down, guess that is what it is. If I can find a way to cut an hour on the operation without sacrificing cleanliness or quality - I might be interested... :dream:
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Post #4 made 9 years ago
Nice write up Scott. I really enjoyed reading that. Thanks for the shout out too.

I save quite a lot of time by using water from my boiler for the mash. In the UK it is popular to have a central heating system (Combi-Boiler) that provides instant hot water on-demand as well as divert to radiators if required (Hence the combi). Your mains water supply is fed through copper coils to a gas fired heater and out to your tap (faucet). So no storage or other worries about the drinking quality. My boiler can be adjusted by a thermostat to set the temp at the tap, and fortunately for me, the maximum I can get is 66C.
I'm not sure if you have them in the U.S. but this easily saves me an hour waiting for strike temps.

One other method that saves time (I have tried it once only) is to overnight mash. A couple of hours one night is shaved off your (next) brew day.

I have similar tastes to you too. If I had to choose between a good APA or pilsner I would go with the pilsner most times. I think a bad APA would probably be better than a bad pilsner though!

My thoughts are that beer doesn't travel well. I have had various beers from the U.S. as well as little creatures pale ale (Aus), and though they are OK, they are not outstanding, and local beers are much better. I have heard Jamil Z a few times on his show mention this, and one was where he came to London to try the same beer at source, and it was a totally different beer.

I hope you do the traveling (and brewing), it would be great to have another with old goat!
Last edited by mally on 03 Aug 2015, 15:42, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #5 made 9 years ago
No chill shaves time off my brew day. After a no chill cube sets out overnight, I put it a my temp control and sits there a week before pitching.

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Post #6 made 9 years ago
Nice write up.

It's difficult to not get a big head/ego with home brewing. I didn't expect the quality of my beer to be as high as it is, but as mally alluded to ... there is something about getting certain styles fresh. I'll take a batch of my fresh IPA over just about anything that can be purchased at the distributor. It's half the price, and more often than not it will be WAY more enjoyable.

Those around me think I'm very humble, and "better" than most breweries. Reality is that I'm simply getting a competently made product to them under ideal conditions (something I would even struggle with if trying to ship over long distances).

There is a place in every town for a small craft brewer who aims only to keep the local population in enjoyment.

I always save a few bottles to see how they age, and after enough time ... my beer will taste just as mediocre as anything else. Lately, this has me focusing more on malt profiles than I do on hops (even for IPA).
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Post #7 made 9 years ago
Really nice writeup there Scott. I have to agree too that I prefer many of my own creations compared to commercially available versions of the same styles. I think that is partially due to the freshness as Rick said, and partially because I brew with malt and hop profiles that I know I like, and maybe partially because I'm biased hah. There are still some microbrews I really like tho, and I'm always up to try new stuff I see. I find this a good way to introduce myself to new takes on styles and ingredients that I haven't tried together or at all. In any case, it's a great hobby, I'm glad you are enjoying it as much as the rest of us!
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Post #8 made 9 years ago
I can easily say I've had extraordinary micros, many of them.
One thing of note is that micro or mega, the key word is commercial. Money has to be made and if they used the recipes allot of us brew money would be lost.
You'll also find that allot of micros in the beginning have great beers but over time they just don't seem as good. It is common practice to scale back recipes over time to increase profits.
Good example is Creemore Springs in Ontario. Was bought out by molson and fairly quickly, anyone able to tell noticed a thinning out of their beers. All about profit.
Many a micro starts out wanting to offer great beers for a great price, those ones tend to fail.

I too have done no chill and it's a great time saver. I also dropped all my boil times to 60 minutes. Even the malts that everyone believes requires 90 (they don't)

Post #9 made 9 years ago
Hey All, when I am saying Macro Breweries I am not referring to Micro Breweries, but the opposite (in other words the big guys, brands like Budweiser here in the states, Corona, etc.)... I'm sure profits are a major factor in poor beer. That's why all of us choose Micros when out and about, right? :thumbs:

Microbreweries can be all over the board, but most have at least something that is enjoyable and many have several enjoyable brews to drink. Here in Oregon, actually the competition to make great beer for the Craft Brewer (Micros, not Macros) is VERY strong and those not producing good product do not last. A Pub Crawl in Portland, Oregon is one of my most fun activities (maybe once or twice a year), and breweries in other towns here in our state are trying hard to give folks no reason to drive to Portland... Bend, Eugene, Corvallis, Ashland...I am missing some, even Salem and Redmond each now all have several fine Micro Breweries, and especially if you are an American IPA fan you will find lots of beer you will like and even love. (I'm not an IPA guy but there are always lots of other choices). Some of these microbreweries are great!!! Fun Fact: Portland, Oregon has more breweries located in the city than any city in the World!

Question: Has anyone ever used No Chill when making a nice German or Czech Pilsner? No Chill seems interesting for many varieties, but I'm concerned that the Pilsners I love so much...with hops being just right and Aroma and flavor additions, may be more difficult to get just right with this process. Any experience with this?
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Post #10 made 9 years ago
Yep, business called me over to Corvallis in 2006-07, where I discovered craft beer for the first time in a pub called Squirrels, liked Rogue Dead Guy the best. Later I visited the brewery in Newport, Oregon.

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Post #11 made 9 years ago
Oh awesome!!! When I was going to college at Oregon State in Corvallis I lived on 7th St downtown for about 3 years. It was about 5 blocks from Squirril's (sp?) Tavern. A bunch of others establishments down there too, similar distance. McMennimans was similar. "Stumbling distance"... Campus was a 10 minute fast bike ride the other way. It was very good back then for beer (21-26 years ago) but way better now. Especially like Block 15 and Sky High Brewing in Corvallis. And Rogue Brewery in Newport is a great place too.
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Post #12 made 9 years ago
In fact, Sky High Brewing has an excellent Bohemian Pilsner!!! Very good other beers too, but the Bohemian Pilsner is a real treat for me. (It is their brewer's favorite of all their beers too...).
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Post #13 made 9 years ago
Scott wrote:Question: Has anyone ever used No Chill when making a nice German or Czech Pilsner? No Chill seems interesting for many varieties, but I'm concerned that the Pilsners I love so much...with hops being just right and Aroma and flavor additions, may be more difficult to get just right with this process. Any experience with this?
That's a good question, and one which I often ponder myself.
I exclusively no chill all my beers whatever I make, but I often wonder what difference there would be if I had the ability to fast chill my lagers.
It would make another good experiment to add to the list of side by sides that need doing!
Last edited by mally on 07 Aug 2015, 15:09, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #14 made 9 years ago
It is with deep sadness that I announce that I "blew the tap" on my Czech Pilsner on 8/7. :headhit: All this talk and enjoyment of Pilsners, and it was like there was hole in the bottom of the Corney keg So with BiAB Home Brew, I'm down to only 2 gallons of so of Dry Irish Stout... Dang-it! :idiot:

I've decided to make an investment in a fermentation chamber. Ordered a new Inkbird controller yesterday. Yeasty had some good info on how to wire a similar one here: http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=1552. Low cost on Amazon; after shipping approximately $21US. Looking on Craigslist for a small used chest freezer and not finding much. Saw one asking $50US that looked really ratty... Best Buy has a small 5 cubic foot model, new for $150US that should "just" fit one of my Speidel plastic fermenters. Probably will go that route. So after buying cords, etc. to make this work the total should be under $200US. Would like to have enough space to ferment two batches at once but don't want to take that much garage space for that large of a freezer. Can still ferment others most of the year the other way most of the year if I need to do two batches at once.

First planned batch, American Pale Ale w/ Cascade hops, and 5% ABV. But won't have hardware to do this brew for another week or so. Should be ready to drink by the end of the month. Second up, after I have beer to drink besides the stout... A German Pilsner, brewed with Santiam hops. I've read online reports from some guys that push the fermentation schedule on lagers so beers are ready to drink in appxroximately 21 days, including lager time. Brulosopher has a posting about this here: http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/. Has anyone used this method with success? :?:
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Post #15 made 9 years ago
Scott

As to the fermenter:

I found a small refrigerator on CL and asked the seller for the internal width and height. It all sounded like it would work until I tried to close the door on a 6 gallon tub. There was a 6" x 6" shelf (probably for the compressor) in the rear that prevented the bucket from reaching the rear wall. :idiot: I cut out the center and bottom shelf supports from the door and it just fits now.

Best of luck on the project - controlling my fermentation temperatures was a big improvement.
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Post #16 made 9 years ago
Thanks Prim!

Actually carried a fermenter and air lock into the store with me to CONFIRM it all fit, and it does! Success...well, at least after I finish building the controller.
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