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Beginner questions need some help

Post #1 made 10 years ago
by Jbush
Hey everyone, I'm new to brewing in general and have never done biab some I'm hoping you guys can help me out with some of my questions!

1. I'm using an aliuminum turkey fryer for my mash and boil, is there anything I have to do to prep the pot? I heard something about oxidizing it but I'm not sure.

2. I know that some people do a full volume mash and some incorporate some sort of sparge method. Which do you use? I though sparging would be good to rinse the extra sugars out.

3. Do you add 10%-15% more base malt to boost up your effinceny? Do you add more base malt to keep from have to sparge?

4. Do you speeze the bag to get out all the liquid?

5. What is the best mash thickness to have 1.33, 1.50, or does It change depending on the recipe? And can you tell me how to come up with that number?

I posted the recipe I want to make, it's an American Amber Ale. Is there anything on this recipe that I would need to change to accommodate a biab brew?

Also could you tell me how much water I would need? I know the answer can change whether or not you sparge, so I you can say whether or not you accounted for sparging.

I know I have a lot of questions but I thought this would be the best place to ask them, and get good feedback! Thank you!
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Post #2 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
First off, welcome to the forum J :salute:

What size pot do you have? Can you measure your kettle diameter and height?

Are you wanting to get going and brew this weekend?

Where are you from?

:peace:

MS
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
by Dee Envy
Hi jbush.
Welcome
I am no expert but I will try to answer your questions.

1. Just wash the fryer out and use it
2. Full volume mash is the best way IMO. No need to sparge.
3. Download Biabacus and punch your numbers in.
4. You can squeeze, or not squeeze. If you don't squeeze, let the bag drain for a half an hour or so.
5. See #3

I hope this give at least a little help. I know there will be more questions but this is a start.
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Post #5 made 10 years ago
by Jbush
Dee Envy wrote:Hi jbush.
Welcome
I am no expert but I will try to answer your questions.

1. Just wash the fryer out and use it
2. Full volume mash is the best way IMO. No need to sparge.
3. Download Biabacus and punch your numbers in.
4. You can squeeze, or not squeeze. If you don't squeeze, let the bag drain for a half an hour or so.
5. See #3

I hope this give at least a little help. I know there will be more questions but this is a start.

Thanks! Yeah it does help, I'm just curious as to why no sparge? I know it not neccisary but I always thought it would help with the sometimes low effciency of biab
Last edited by Jbush on 24 Jan 2015, 10:13, edited 1 time in total.

Post #6 made 10 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
J bush
You will want to fill your new pot with water and boil for 30 min to an hour to build a passive oxide layer. This will prevent any aluminum flavors from leaching into the wort.
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Post #7 made 10 years ago
by Jbush
Lumpy5oh wrote:J bush
You will want to fill your new pot with water and boil for 30 min to an hour to build a passive oxide layer. This will prevent any aluminum flavors from leaching into the wort.
The turkey fryer is 4-5 years old does that matter? Also to build the passive oxide layer, should that be done on brew day or an that be done a week or so in advance?
Last edited by Jbush on 24 Jan 2015, 13:18, edited 1 time in total.

Re:

Post #8 made 10 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
Jbush wrote:
Lumpy5oh wrote:J bush
You will want to fill your new pot with water and boil for 30 min to an hour to build a passive oxide layer. This will prevent any aluminum flavors from leaching into the wort.
The turkey fryer is 4-5 years old does that matter? Also to build the passive oxide layer, should that be done on brew day or an that be done a week or so in advance?
I didn't realize it was used. I'd imagine you could just go ahead and use it.
Last edited by Lumpy5oh on 24 Jan 2015, 15:12, edited 1 time in total.
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

Weehoosebrewing.ga
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Canada

Post #9 made 10 years ago
by safebrew222
Jbush wrote: Thanks! Yeah it does help, I'm just curious as to why no sparge? I know it not neccisary but I always thought it would help with the sometimes low effciency of biab
Jbush...

A sparge does't increase efficiency over using all your water for the mash. Also BIAB is not less efficient than traditional 3 vessel brewing. Take look at and play with the BIABicus for at least 20 to 30 minutes. Look at our clear brewing terminology and search around the forum for other discussions on mash efficiency and some of the myths spread about BIAB.

I'll try and answer your questions...

1. Aluminum is a fine metal for brewing... you want the darker oxide layer to help protect the pot but that will happen during your first brew.

2. 3. and 5.

Again you will not gain any efficiency doing a sparge over using all your water in the pot for your mash. That being said, you have a small pot for a 5.5 gal into the fermenter. You have two choices that make sense to me. You can mash with as much water as you possibly can in the pot, taking it within a half inch of the brim. Or you can do a thicker mash and then sparge and add them together. One method is not more efficient than the other provided you are using the same amount of water for the same length of time at the same temps. You will also need to add water to dilute the wort in both cases in order to reach your volumes. You will also use the same amount of water in either method. The difference is that you will need more equipment to do the sparge, it takes more time and could actually lead to lower efficiency if not performed thoroughly.

BIAB mashes are thin... sometimes 3 to 4 qts per lb. There are benefits to this like higher kettle efficiency which leads to using LESS grain in full volume BIAB. In essence, you are doing what we like to call a passive or simultaneous sparge when you use all your water at first. In your case, you will need to use more grain than I would in my set up because you are mashing in a smaller vessel with less water. To gain the most efficiency out of your set up make sure you have a bag that completely lines your kettle, make sure you are mashing for 90 minutes and make sure you are doing a mashout.

I highly recommend you use the BIABicus. It will calculate your water and grains needed. You can use it for either of the methods described here. Ask for help with your first file. Plenty of folks willing to help.

4. I am a squeezer... ask my wife! :lol:

Good luck and welcome !

Jeff
Last edited by safebrew222 on 24 Jan 2015, 15:17, edited 1 time in total.

Post #10 made 10 years ago
by ShorePoints
A brew day and weeks of waiting for results can save you from an hour with the BIABacus. Seriously, check it out. Fill in the early parts, especially your kettle size and do the best you can (or tinker) with the questions above & below the grain and hops bills. You'll need to commit to one thing like VIF, VIP, or VAW for tinkering elsewhere to make sense. If you use a hopsack, put a y in that box, it will help what it seems you want to do - get a lot out of what you put in. Only mess with Section W's water held back for a sparge after you see what happens to TWN and total mash volume when you have changed the other reasonable things. I believe you might already have ingredients on hand and it would be difficult to toss any aside, so fill them in on the left side, answer the questions that result in automatic filling of the corresponding right sides. Then slowly start changing other things to try to balance what you want with what you can do. You can post your best BIABacus file for assistance. Good luck.
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Post #11 made 10 years ago
by Jbush
Wow, thanks everyone. Could someone post a link to the BIABacus? I type it in search engine and get a million calculators but not the BIABacus, do I need to dowoad? Also I think I might only do a 3-4 gallon batch to accomidate the size of my kettle and fermenter (5 gallon glass carboy). Would I just multitude everything by .60 or .80 for this recipe? Thank you in advance!

Post #14 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Don't be scared of it Mr Bush or spend too much time on it! The BIABacus is meant to be fast to use so just do Sections A to D as best as you can and then post your file. Things will fall into place after that.

The above is your main priority.

....

Once you have done the above and are waiting for an answer, you'll almost definitely still be scratching your head on some contradictory information of what you read here (in some excellent posts above) and what you might read elsewhere. For example, you are probably still baffled on the sparging. Safebrew has already given the correct answer on this above. To understand it, you'll need to do a bit more reading. Here are a few suggestions:-

Clear Brewing Terminology as Safe already mentioned.

As for the sparging versus no-sparging, it's really hard to find info on the site atm on this. Here are a few of my posts (I'm into this subject) for you though...

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3041&p=44778&hilit=sparge#p44778
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2558&p=44777&hilit=sparge#p44777
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2946&p=42185&hilit=sparge#p42185
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2523&p=37943&hilit=sparge#p37943
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2466&p=35120&hilit=sparge#p35120
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2044&p=34012&hilit=sparge#p34012
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2044&start=50#p31499 [Sweet Liquor Shops]

Remember, for now, just Sections A to D of the BIABacus ;).
Last edited by PistolPatch on 25 Jan 2015, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #15 made 10 years ago
by Jbush
PistolPatch wrote:Don't be scared of it Mr Bush or spend too much time on it! The BIABacus is meant to be fast to use so just do Sections A to D as best as you can and then post your file. Things will fall into place after that.

The above is your main priority.

....

Once you have done the above and are waiting for an answer, you'll almost definitely still be scratching your head on some contradictory information of what you read here (in some excellent posts above) and what you might read elsewhere. For example, you are probably still baffled on the sparging. Safebrew has already given the correct answer on this above. To understand it, you'll need to do a bit more reading. Here are a few suggestions:-

Clear Brewing Terminology as Safe already mentioned.

As for the sparging versus no-sparging, it's really hard to find info on the site atm on this. Here are a few of my posts (I'm into this subject) for you though...

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3041&p=44778&hilit=sparge#p44778
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2558&p=44777&hilit=sparge#p44777
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2946&p=42185&hilit=sparge#p42185
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2523&p=37943&hilit=sparge#p37943
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2466&p=35120&hilit=sparge#p35120
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2044&p=34012&hilit=sparge#p34012
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2044&start=50#p31499 [Sweet Liquor Shops]

Remember, for now, just Sections A to D of the BIABacus ;).
Wow. Thank you.
Last edited by Jbush on 26 Jan 2015, 10:52, edited 1 time in total.

Post #16 made 10 years ago
by Jbush
I realize the mash volume exceeds my kettle limitations so ill have to scale it back. to make a 3-4 gallon recipe would I just multiply my numbers by .60 or .80? thanks.
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Beginner questions need some help

Post #17 made 10 years ago
by NeillC
Jbush wrote:I realize the mash volume exceeds my kettle limitations so ill have to scale it back. to make a 3-4 gallon recipe would I just multiply my numbers by .60 or .80? thanks.
To scale the recipe just change the VIF in section B and it will scale the recipe for you.
Last edited by NeillC on 27 Jan 2015, 15:43, edited 1 time in total.

Post #18 made 10 years ago
by ShorePoints
JB - good start on the BIABacus! Try putting a y in the box for hopsack in Section G to see what happens to your volumes (Total mash volume and Volume Into Boil). If you haven't a separate hopsack, by the time you want to charge hops to the boil, the big bag is out and could be emptied of grain and washed off so that you could use a section of it for hops. You can put hops in the bag and tie off that portion of the bag leaving enough bag to allow the hops to expand (about volley ball size) and that part goes into the boil at & for the times in the recipe. It is a bit of a pain to try to untie that segment for later hop additions, so plan ahead to avoid that. Copper wire (bare, with no sharp ends - fold them back into little loops) is easy to untie or section off another submersible part.
Keep going, there will be beer.
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Post #20 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
JB, You can brew that kit as is. Do you have the kit on hand? Enter the AA% and time and repost the file. Section D is not complete.

MS
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Post #21 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
[MODNOTE: See Post #25 below for further info on the VAW of a Northern Brewer recipe.]

JB, This is my best guess on how to brew a Northern Brewer all grain kit (northernbrewer).

American Amber Ale

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documenta" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... nAmber.pdf
BIABacus PR1.3T American Amber Ale - MS.xls
MS
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Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 29 Jan 2015, 02:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #23 made 10 years ago
by Jbush
Hey guys, I just redid my BIABacus so I'd love if you guys would take a look and critique it. Thanks!
One question. Why does the hopsock change the numbers in my grainbill?
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Post #24 made 10 years ago
by safebrew222
The hopsock reduces the amount of matter in the boil kettle after chilling that you don't want ending up into packaging. So it reduces the amount of ambient wort needed to reach your volume into packaging and therefore the amount of grain needed to make that wort.

Post #25 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Hi there Mr Bush,

safebrew has answered your last question perfectly so let's take a look at your file...

Okay, that looks great J :salute:. I haven't double-checked your weights, times etc against the original NB recipe as I assume what I see on the left of Sections C and D will match the original NB recipe. I see that either you or someone else above has guessed at the AA% of the hops and guessing is pretty much all we can do here and what we must do. Not telling you the AA% of hops originally used is one of several major errors in NB (and many other) recipes unfortunately.

All yu can do in these cases, is look up one of the sites listed here and then use the average AA% of the relevant hop.

Check the above but also definitely make the following correction...

The other critical bit of info that is either very hard or impossible to find in most published recipes is the VAW. Your file says 18.94 L (5 US gallons.) From the research done on this site, we interpret a Northern Brewer recipe as being 5 gallons into the fermenter plus 0.5 gallons of kettle trub. In other words, 5.0 VIF plus 0.5 KFL = 5.5 VAW.

So, change your first line of Section D to 20.83 L or 5.5 US Gal.

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 02 Feb 2015, 19:31, edited 1 time in total.
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