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Brewing my first Lager

Post #1 made 15 years ago
by shibolet
hey guys,
just got back from Germany last week. Visited the Brau exhibition in Nurenberg and then spent some time in Bamberg and Munich.
long story short, i love that Munich Helles!
I've never brewed a lager before and i would really appreciate any input.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #2 made 15 years ago
by hashie
I can't help you shib, I'm no fan of lagers and haven't brewed one. If I need an easy drinker I prefer to make a cream ale.
Sorry :(
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #3 made 15 years ago
by Ralph
Hey shib!
I'm no expert, but start simple is my advice but use the best quality ingredients you can afford, so floor- malted malt, liquid yeast etc. My usual recipe, not 100% on the hops though, but it was good enough to place at our state level (more *rse than class, I am sure!)
The malt side of thing, you could drop the Carapils (some info) and go 100% base malt and a generous decoction, that's what I've been doing of late, plus I wouldn't mash over 65C, that particular malt has residual sweetness of its own, it will finish quite low (eg. 1.008) but not overly dry or thin.
Some well- respected brewers recommend low- AA% noble hops for bittering in pale lagers, having tried that I happen to agree, but I haven't done it any other way either.
Oh, the one thing I should mention, always pitch a generous starter with both it and the wort at fermentation temperature. The large starter is particularly annoying for me, but remember you don't want the whole starter just the slurry, some folks brew a kit lager just to get the yeast, I always do a series of lagers once I've got the strain established by re- using slurry.
Be patient, but always do a thorough diacetyl rest! :headhit:
PVPP (eg. Polyclar) added dry to secondary is quite good at clearing chill haze. I seldom endorse a secondary, but it allows me to do a batch every week and re- use the yeast from the primary.

Good luck, let us know how you get on! :smoke:
Last edited by Ralph on 24 Nov 2010, 06:13, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #5 made 15 years ago
by stux
Fermentation control is absolutely essential. If you don't brew in a fridge, don't bother

I actually use saflager s23 (dried yeast) with my lagers. I pitch at 12C and maintain the temp at that. The brew will warm up as the yeast begin so you need to turn it down, then backup as they slow down. 3-4 weeks in primary then crash chill, and keg.

I haven't needed a dyacetyl rest, but if you ferment above 12C I suspect you might. Considering doing one with my current lager
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #6 made 15 years ago
by shibolet
thanks guys,
I'd like to hear the specifics of your fermentation and bottling/kegging regime. i figure the mash and boil can't be much different than for brewing ales.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #7 made 15 years ago
by BobBrews
I brew Lagers almost exclusively in the winter. I have a downstairs bedroom which I don't heat and it stays about 52F. 11.11C The process of brewing is the same but for the fermentation you need a yeast starter. You must double or triple the amount of yeast. The fermentation is slower with the cold temps and you need to leave it in the primary at least 3 weeks. I leave it up to four weeks.

You can ferment in a refrigerator in a corny keg equipped with a air lock.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

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Post #8 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
Great to hear you went to Germany shib. Hope you have some pictures for us :).

I was there in April and had the best Munich Dunkel I have had in my life when I visited what is possibly the world's oldest abbey brewery. :yum:

Munich Helles is my favourite beer style. I am sure I have done some long rambles on this style here so maybe search my posts for Munich Helles.

I don't think lagers are hard to brew with proper temperature control. You can actually be pretty lazy with them as I learned form a few consistent gold medal winners here. (They don't rack, one of them does no diacetyl rest but pitches at a low temp etc.)

So, I don't find the brewing of them hard. What I find hard is the waiting. The following is purely anecdotal and based on very few beers...

I have had lots of very good lagers, two great ones (one being the Munich Dunkell I mentioned) and one that was the best beer I have ever had in my life. The latter was a Munich Helles as was the other one of the great beers. The recipe is here on the forum.

My problem is that these Munich Helles took around 9 months to reach their height. Before that they were very good beers and equivalent to gold medal winners I had had but they didn't have that extra, "Wow, that is spectacular!," quality. I also, at 9 months, had run out of both these beers so they might have got even better :think:.

If you can shib, try and bottle some of what you brew and keep it aside in your fridge for 9 months. Better still, bottle heaps and taste it at one month intervals and see if you find the beer suddenly changes to being good to superb. I think we need a lot more anecdotal evidence on lagering.

Cheers,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 25 Nov 2010, 20:45, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #9 made 15 years ago
by shibolet
here's a link to one album of pic. i'm in there too.
http://picasaweb.google.com/riftins/201 ... feat=email#
there are more pics on facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=5 ... 8972773520
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=5 ... 8972773520
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=7 ... 1628302029
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #10 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
Good on you shib,

I was going to ask if you were the bloke with no hair but most of the blokes in the photos have no hair :lol:

Is this you?
Last edited by PistolPatch on 30 Nov 2010, 21:44, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #11 made 15 years ago
by shibolet
PistolPatch wrote:Good on you shib,

I was going to ask if you were the bloke with no hair but most of the blokes in the photos have no hair :lol:

Is this you?
no. he's a good friend and a great brewer (and also a retired air force pilot).
I'm the guy in red argyle sweater in the back (with no hair).
PICTURE
Last edited by shibolet on 30 Nov 2010, 22:30, edited 5 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #12 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
shibolet wrote: I'm the guy in red argyle sweater in the back (with no hair).
PICTURE
and glasses?...

Great pics. I reckon you should start a new thread on your trip, "Beer Adventures in Germany," or something. If you do, I'll dig up some of my pics and the mods here might fiddle or remove our posts here so as your original question gets some more answers :lol:.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 30 Nov 2010, 23:03, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #14 made 15 years ago
by iijakii
Does anyone have any experience with lager temperatures? I have seen people suggest lagering at 33 F , 36 F, 44 F!

I have a Doppelbock I just started lagering. Pretty simple recipe, 70/20/10 % Munich/Pilsner/Crystal60 and some Hallertau Hersbrucker with WLP833. OG was 1.089 and fermented down to 1.022.

Post #15 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
I love The Converter! ADMIN NOTE: Unfortunately the edget being referred to here is no longer available. Please read this post for alternatives. I am now reading your temps above as 0.6 C, 2.2 C and 6.7 C :)

I'd say the latter figure is a low lager 'fermentation' temperature rather than a 'lagering' (storage) one. I was going to pull my, Noonan's, "New Brewing Lagers," book off the shelf but any time I do that, it just makes things complicated. There are way too many ifs and buts there!

If we can go by some great lager brewers I know, you can be pretty safe fermenting most lagers at 9 C and lagering them at 0 C - 2 C. (Forget the 6.7 C.)

Next time I brew a lager, I am going to try something a bit wild. I am going to raise the temperature of a few bottles after a tad of traditional lagering to a very high temperature for somewhere between 3 - 14 days. I remember reading, quite a few years ago, how this experiment was done with red wine with very favourable results. Hope it works as it would be great to find a way of speeding up lagering!

Cheers,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 28 Dec 2010, 22:12, edited 5 times in total.
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