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First BIAB buy list

Post #1 made 11 years ago
by gnmrc
This is gonna be a long post, please take the time to help a first time brewer in need! I am about to purchase my first equipment to brew beer and I'm going with the BIAB method. I'm making this list to ask you some thoughts and opinions..I'd like to know if this list is complete.

Sanitisation

- (natural biodegradable detergent)
- Enoidrosan: chlorine-active alkaline detergent/sanitizer
- cleaner
- spray bottle

Mashing

- Stainless steel 50 liters (13 gallons)
- Mug 5 liters (1.3 gallons)
- Grain bag (almost 30 $ for this...isn't it way to much?)
- Scoop (does this need to be stainless steel or can I use one made of plastic that I would use also with the fermenter if needed?)
- Digital thermometer
- PH litmus test
- Something to lower the PH (lactic acid or gypsum? I read somewhere that lactic acid is more suited for beers like pilsner which is what I'm gonne brew for the first time)
- Something to raise PH (I couldn't find nothing on the store...ph too high is this something to be worried or does this almost never occur?)
- iodine test

Boil

- hop bags

Fermentation

- non toxic hose 5 meters (16 foot)
- basin big enough and frozen water bottles to chill the boiling pot (couldn't think of anything more practical given the place where I'll brew. Maybe I'll have a sink)
- 2 fermenters (I would have gone with only one but I might decide to try adding fruit to the beer in the near future and I read this should be done in a second fermenter. I also read about transferring to a second fermenter in order to have a clearer beer. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong about these things)
- adhesive termometers
- densimeter
- cylinder

Bottling

- crown corks (26 diameter)
- bottles
- sterilizer for bottles
- capper column (it works with 26 and 29 corks)
- sugar doser for 33,50 and 75 cl bottles
- bottling hose with valve (the one that stops pouring when you stop putting pressure on the bottom of the bottle)

Raw materials

- all grain pilsner kit 23 liters (6 gallons) this will come with hops and yeast that need 10°-12° C should I buy also yeast suitable for higher temperatures? Otherwise I could make a mini fridge with polystyrene panels and put the fermenter inside with frozen water bottle if this can help. In this case I'll stick the digital termometer through the panel to check the temperature.)

Did I forget anything important? Am I buying too much?
This equipment will cost 420$ and I'll split with a friend (the only things I won't buy are the basin and hopefully glass bottles for bottling).
I don't care planning to details even if it's a first brew and I'd like to end up with a good beer.
Hope you made it till the end of this looooong post
THANK YOU!!!
Last edited by gnmrc on 04 Jul 2014, 20:07, edited 1 time in total.

Post #2 made 11 years ago
by Lemon
Gnmrc,
Wow, just wow.
That is a verrrrrrry comprehensive list.
With the mashing, I wouldn't worry about the pH measuring and controlling just yet. You will make great beer without worrying about pH. Or the iodine test, just make sure you mash for 90 minutes.
Stick with the supplied yeast, try to control the temp with frozen bottles.
Use the same sanitiser for bottles as for fermenters.
Try to simplify your equipment at first as it could get very confusing.

Don't worry this is a simple process. Read up on this forum .
Hope this helps
Lemon
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Australia

Post #3 made 11 years ago
by gnmrc
Thank you Lemon for answering!
I have a few questions...
Lemon wrote:Gnmrc,
With the mashing, I wouldn't worry about the pH measuring and controlling just yet. You will make great beer without worrying about pH. Or the iodine test, just make sure you mash for 90 minutes.
Are you saying this because PH actually doesn't account much for final results or to simplify the process? I see that PH adjusting is included in the awesome checklist I found here!
I know I won't be making beer every weekend so I'd like to learn right now the most complete method to brew beer given me and my friend's resources.
Also I plan to make a step mashing, it is my understanding that it's not necessary but I read that at different mash temperatures different characteristics of the beer will develop.
Lemon wrote: Stick with the supplied yeast, try to control the temp with frozen bottles.
Someone told me something about controlling very closely fermentation temperature with a Lager beer like this Pilsner I'm about to make and he suggested that I'd go with an Ale as first beer. What do you think about that? (I really would like to make a Pilsner since it's what I usually drink and I'd like to see the difference).
Also this might be a non-issue because I haven't yet checked the temperature in the garage where the fermenter will be stored.

Thank you very much again!
Hope to hear your thoughts soon!
Last edited by gnmrc on 04 Jul 2014, 18:45, edited 1 time in total.

Post #4 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
[Just went to post and saw your post above Gnm. We already have many questions that need answering properly before you van do your first brew or make any purchases. The questions asked above are advanced questions and cannot be answered responsibly until other questions are answered first so, read on...]

Gnm, thanks for taking my advice in the My First Post thread and starting this topic. As Lemon said above, "Wow!"

Great job but when I read something like, "I am about to make my first purchase (or first brew)," I always panic as fast answers often lead to regrettable results. Can we take this thread slowly?

There are heaps of good things above and heaps of things that need to be discussed so let's not race into anything eh? Hopefully you can edit and adjust your first post here as you find answers so as your thread becomes a great one.

If you are happy to go this route then I think within a week, we can really get this list under control and suitable. I personally won't offer any answers but I will ask questions which either you will need to answer or many brewers here will know the answer to...

My first question is...

Have you read
The Basics of Cleaning and Sanitisation?

That's the first area to cover.

No need to rush into brewing in a week. Even if it takes three weeks to get your list right, that is good fun in itself and it will be massively beneficial to see you starting off with the right stuff on your first brew rather than regretting every purchase you make.

So, firstly read the above link, and once done, let us know what your solution is and we'll correct that if necessary. Basically I am saying that what you are proposing on sanitation is not correct so let's get that right first. After that, we can investigate kettle size. I doubt 50 litres will be right for you.

...

I answer way too many questions on this forum and have wanted to stop doing so for a long time. I'm going to ban myself from your thread Gnm because I could write for hours here and I really need to get other stuff done.

This thread is the perfect thread for you to work with and be guided by other forum members here so give them as much info on your situation and feedback on their answers as you can because there is so much basic knowledge that needs to be passed on to you in this thread.

That last sentence could read as insulting but is light years from it. One of the hardest things in home-brewing is discerning what is basic/important info and what is advanced/unnecessary info. Lemon has already advised you really well here.

This is a great thread where you and everyone else can contribute a heap. Read everything written to you carefully (and any links) and if anyone posts anything obviously wrong to you, on this forum, chances are it will be corrected.

No one here worries about being corrected when their info is wrong because we are all aware of how much crap info is out there! That is a pretty cool culture!

:salute:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 04 Jul 2014, 19:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #5 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
gnmrc,

You have done your homework! Bravo! :thumbs: You will be a great brewer in time. I would suggest as I do to all new brewers. Get the fundamentals working first before you buy it all. (For me!) Half the fun is buying brew toys and gadgets. If you buy them all at once there is nothing left to dream over! :cry: Below is a basic starting list!

1. Heat source. ----- Propane, electric? Used turkey deep fryer?
2. Pot or keggle. ----- Used keg?
3. Brewing Bag. ----- Shear Drapery material. Homemade for $10 or $30+ bought.
4. Fermentation vessel. ----- Bucket, carboy, no-chill cube?

That's all you need to start. (big spoon and accurate thermometer are assumed to be on hand?) At First. Buy a all-grain kit from your local home brew supply shop (LHBSS). I was brewing BIAB for years with crappy water and never played with pH. I still won a few medals!

Keep and improve upon your list, but just buy or make what you can. Get the process and fundamentals mastered first. By your third brew you will feel comfortable and have confidence to spare! :clap:
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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Post #6 made 11 years ago
by gnmrc
PistolPatch wrote: My first question is...

Have you read
The Basics of Cleaning and Sanitisation?

So, firstly read the above link, and once done, let us know what your solution is and we'll correct that if necessary. Basically I am saying that what you are proposing on sanitation is not correct so let's get that right first.
I'm sorry about that; I posted something I had already corrected and forgot to edit the list. I'll correct it!
I know that is not what I need for sanitization; I put it there because in the store I'm going to buy from, it was under that section but I noticed later it wasn't suited for the purpose.
I'll go with Enoidrosan which is a liquid chlorine-active alkaline sanitizer/detergent
PistolPatch wrote: After that, we can investigate kettle size. I doubt 50 litres will be right for you.
Why is that?
Shouldn't the pot be double the volume of the beer I'll make?
I'll sure won't be making more than 23 liters anytime soon in a single brew

Hope to hear your answer! Thank you!
Last edited by gnmrc on 04 Jul 2014, 19:56, edited 2 times in total.

Post #7 made 11 years ago
by gnmrc
Hi BobB!
BobBrews wrote:gnmrc,

You have done your homework! Bravo! :thumbs: You will be a great brewer in time. I would suggest as I do to all new brewers. Get the fundamentals working first before you buy it all. (For me!) Half the fun is buying brew toys and gadgets. If you buy them all at once there is nothing left to dream over! :cry: Below is a basic starting list!

1. Heat source. ----- Propane, electric? Used turkey deep fryer?
2. Pot or keggle. ----- Used keg?
3. Brewing Bag. ----- Shear Drapery material. Homemade for $10 or $30+ bought.
4. Fermentation vessel. ----- Bucket, carboy, no-chill cube?

That's all you need to start. (big spoon and accurate thermometer are assumed to be on hand?) At First. Buy a all-grain kit from your local home brew supply shop (LHBSS). I was brewing BIAB for years with crappy water and never played with pH. I still won a few medals!

Keep and improve upon your list, but just buy or make what you can. Get the process and fundamentals mastered first. By your third brew you will feel comfortable and have confidence to spare! :clap:
I'll have a camping stove or kitchen stove available. Camping stove in the garage will be better for me since that's where I'll store the fermenter.
For the pot I'll go with a stainless steel..I found a store which has a few pots with minor flaws (merely esthetic flaws, nothing like scratches on the inside of the pot) which I'll get for 130$.
I could sew a bag but since it's something made to be reused I might buy that.
For fermentation I'll buy plastic bucket that have a faucet also.

For the mashing I'll need a spoon...does it need to be stainless steel? Can I use the one made of safe plastic that comes with the fermenter? I am worried about temperatures...


I know that some stuff in my list are not mandatory for a first brew but I'd like to keep track of what I do to see what affects what.
For example: if PH is not something that absolutely needs to be controlled but it does have an impact on final result I see no point in postponing this step in the process.

What I mean is: as I see more than one person suggesting to scale down with the equipment I am wondering if it's to simplify or to prevent me from major screwups...
What could go wrong with me, let's say, checking ph levels? Or making a iodine test to check if starch conversion is complete/acceptable? Doesn't PH affects starch conversion?
I'll use tap water and I don't know about the properties of that water...

I don't want to give a wrong impression! I know that complete equipment doesn't make good beer but it needs someone who knows what to do; I just don't want to end up with a bad beer and not knowing the values of variables that could have had a role in the results. As a matter of fact even if I end up with a great beer I'd like to know those values otherwise I wouldn't be able to replicate results or improve my technique...

Thanks everybody for the help!
This forum is awesome!
Last edited by gnmrc on 04 Jul 2014, 20:38, edited 1 time in total.

First BIAB buy list

Post #8 made 11 years ago
by Contrarian
When I started brewing a mate who was very experienced have me some good advice. The 2 most important things in brewing are sanitation and ability to control fermentation temp.

For cleaning I use sodium percarbonate (no scent napisan or equivalent) and starsan as a sanitiser. Both are readily available and easy to work with in my experience at and stage of the brewing process.

For controlling fermentation temperature I bought a used chest freezer ($20) and an STC1000 temp controller that I wired up myself ($20).

I think these have both had a massive impact on the final product and I have never checked the Ph of a beer yet or added anything to the tap water. I'm not saying thy wouldn't make a difference, just that I have made some decent beers without it.

Pot size depends on a lot of things. From a 70L pot I get 40L into cubes and with limited opportunities to brew this works well for me. If you can brew whenever you want 50L might be perfect but you could squeeze 23L out of a smaller pot.

My advice would be that while all of things you are considering will have an impact on the final result it might be over complicating it from the beginning. Start simple with a focus on volume, mash temp and duration, fermentation temp and sanitation and you will make good beer with only a limited number of variables to tinker with. Once you are happy with that start looking at mash Ph etc.

Making beer from grain is surprisingly simple and incredibly rewarding. Relax, have fun and enjoy the journey.

Post #9 made 11 years ago
by gnmrc
Hi Contrarian
Contrarian wrote: For controlling fermentation temperature I bought a used chest freezer ($20) and an STC1000 temp controller that I wired up myself ($20).
That would be sweet but a chest freezer for 20$?? Isn't that a really great price? seems difficult to find a deal like that!

For the pot: I'll go with 50 liters because I found a great deal; a smaller pot would cost me more.

Fermentation temp is something that worries me because I don't know how night/day temp difference should be handled. I'll see if the garage I'll store in the fermenter is well insulated but the recipe says it should stay between 10°-12° which is a tiny space. I don't know yet what will happen if it reaches say 15° or 16°.
Moreover the fermenter will be at my friend's house and he won't be able to check temperatures until 8PM or so.
Contrarian wrote: Start simple with a focus on volume
That's another issue.
How should I measure volume pre mash, pre boil and after the boil?
This is something I haven't found material yet.


Thank you!
Last edited by gnmrc on 04 Jul 2014, 21:21, edited 1 time in total.

First BIAB buy list

Post #10 made 11 years ago
by Contrarian
Hey mate, not sure where you are but second hand white goods are normally pretty cheap. Maybe $20 was lucky but if you can't pick up a chest freezer for under $50 I'd be surprised. I like the chest freezer as it fits 2 fermenters and is great for crash chilling and lagering. In terms of bang for buck it has made the biggest difference to my brewing without a doubt.

There are other things you can do like insulating a box of some kind and adding bottles of frozen water but for the time and effort involved you might as well go the whole hog.

The only thing I would say about a 50L kettle is that it won't be able to do double batches. If you are thinking about doing that in the future it might be better to invest in a bigger pot now.

I measure my volume using an incredibly complex device called a ruler! If you put the dimensions of your pot into the BIABacus it will give you a good estimate and you can work from there.

First BIAB buy list

Post #11 made 11 years ago
by Contrarian
Also, with a 70L kettle you can do double batches, this is especially good if there are 2 of you as you can no chill a cube each and then compare different post boil processes like dry hopping or different yeasts on the same wort.

You also get twice as much beer for basically the same length brew day!

Post #12 made 11 years ago
by gnmrc
Contrarian wrote:Hey mate, not sure where you are but second hand white goods are normally pretty cheap. Maybe $20 was lucky but if you can't pick up a chest freezer for under $50 I'd be surprised.
Surprise! :)
I live in Italy and I couldn't find a freezer for less than 50$...in fact I couldn't find one for less than 90$.
But it's not a problem since we did scrape up one little freezer that will be perfect for the fermenter. It will fit just one but for now it's okay.
Contrarian wrote:The only thing I would say about a 50L kettle is that it won't be able to do double batches.
I don't know what double batches are.
Anyhow with a 50 liters pot I assume we'll be able to make 25 liters or less. Which is more than enough.
Also I didn't know before how expensive stainless steel pots are! this 50 liters (with tiny scratches on the external surface) is 130$; all the others I found on the internet (I didn't even search for U.S. stores but I am sure they would be better and with better prices) or near where I live are more than 300$ for that size.
Even if I want to compare two beer with different yeast (one of the reasons why I want to buy 2 fermenters) I'll still have a little more than 10 liters per type and that's again more than enough.

Now I need to know (and if you already know where this information is, please enlighten me!) how the mashing and boiling process affects PH so by checking water PH before those processes I'll know what to expect more or less.

Thank you very much for your advices!
Last edited by gnmrc on 08 Jul 2014, 09:47, edited 1 time in total.

First BIAB buy list

Post #13 made 11 years ago
by Contrarian
Well it is very clear that I know nothing about the price of second hand freezers in Italy! I live in Australia and it is very different so apologies for misleading you there!

When I say a double batch I get about 40L into fermenters and could get a bit more if I pushed it. The main limit to BIAB is the total mash volume so all of your starting water plus your grain. There are ways to increase this if you want to but it sounds like you are happy with 23L batches for now and the 50L will be more than adequate for that.

In terms of water Ph that is a massive topic in itself and there are a huge range of factors involved. I've done about 20 brews and have never measured or adjusted Ph. I've been pretty happy with my beer so far too!

As I said before you might be better off getting a few brews under your belt while you do some further reading about water chemistry and I assure you, there are books on the subject. Unless your water profile is highly unusual your beer will be fine.

Very happy for some of the experienced brewers to weigh in about water chemistry but as I said, I wouldn't worry about it yet.
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