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Something is off with my BIAB

Post #1 made 12 years ago
by naptowndon
I have a few brew in a bags under my belt. About 8 now. My last 3 I have used the biabacus, but have only kegged one for my kegerator. However the others are currently on tap. The cream ale is clean, clear, has a lot of flavor and taste great. It was brewed beginning of the summer. Carbonated in the keg good head. My phat tire clone is clear has great color and the biscuit malt smell but has an astringent flavor for some reason. I brewed many of extract kits and they all came out great. I switched some equipment for BIAB. I went from a 8 gallon stainless to a 15 gallon aluminum, from indoors to outdoors with a propane burner. My numbers prior to biabacus always seemed off from AG recipes efficiency hitting low 70 to 75%. I have grain double milled 90 min. mash and do mash out and squeeze bag for boil. I clean rinse and sanitize equipment and clean and sanitize beer lines when switching kegs (normally do all 3 or 4 lines at once). My mash temps stay pretty steady at 152ish adjust when 2 degrees either way and use a wort chiller for cool down after boil. Grain is normally used same day or next day from milling. Trying to give enough information any helpful feedback appreciated.

Post #2 made 12 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
naptowndon wrote:I have a few brew in a bags under my belt. About 8 now. My last 3 I have used the biabacus, but have only kegged one for my kegerator. However the others are currently on tap. The cream ale is clean, clear, has a lot of flavor and taste great. It was brewed beginning of the summer. Carbonated in the keg good head. My phat tire clone is clear has great color and the biscuit malt smell but has an astringent flavor for some reason. I brewed many of extract kits and they all came out great. I switched some equipment for BIAB. I went from a 8 gallon stainless to a 15 gallon aluminum, from indoors to outdoors with a propane burner. My numbers prior to biabacus always seemed off from AG recipes efficiency hitting low 70 to 75%. I have grain double milled 90 min. mash and do mash out and squeeze bag for boil. I clean rinse and sanitize equipment and clean and sanitize beer lines when switching kegs (normally do all 3 or 4 lines at once). My mash temps stay pretty steady at 152ish adjust when 2 degrees either way and use a wort chiller for cool down after boil. Grain is normally used same day or next day from milling. Trying to give enough information any helpful feedback appreciated.
Extract brewing is a different animal.

All grain on the other hand can bring about astringency in the mashing process, this sounds like too high of a pH at the end of the mash AND temperature over 170 F. Both have to exist before astringency becomes noticably.` Is this scenario happening?

:peace:
MS
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 10 Nov 2013, 08:57, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #3 made 12 years ago
by naptowndon
Mad_Scientist wrote:
naptowndon wrote:I have a few brew in a bags under my belt. About 8 now. My last 3 I have used the biabacus, but have only kegged one for my kegerator. However the others are currently on tap. The cream ale is clean, clear, has a lot of flavor and taste great. It was brewed beginning of the summer. Carbonated in the keg good head. My phat tire clone is clear has great color and the biscuit malt smell but has an astringent flavor for some reason. I brewed many of extract kits and they all came out great. I switched some equipment for BIAB. I went from a 8 gallon stainless to a 15 gallon aluminum, from indoors to outdoors with a propane burner. My numbers prior to biabacus always seemed off from AG recipes efficiency hitting low 70 to 75%. I have grain double milled 90 min. mash and do mash out and squeeze bag for boil. I clean rinse and sanitize equipment and clean and sanitize beer lines when switching kegs (normally do all 3 or 4 lines at once). My mash temps stay pretty steady at 152ish adjust when 2 degrees either way and use a wort chiller for cool down after boil. Grain is normally used same day or next day from milling. Trying to give enough information any helpful feedback appreciated.
Extract brewing is a different animal.

All grain on the other hand can bring about astringency in the mashing process, this sounds like too high of a pH at the end of the mash AND temperature over 170 F. Both have to exist before astringency becomes noticably.` Is this scenario happening?

:peace:
MS

I agree extract is totally different. I jumped into BIAB for the challenge and the control over a brew.

My mash temps have started a little high in the 156 154 range but I normally bring them down with ice. During the mash out I am normally at 170 or may hit 171 trying to bring it up to temp, kill the heat and it will raise 1 or 2 degrees. Now you mention the ph level and I have been using my tap water rather than distilled water in most of these batches. As I said the first few although lower efficiency tasted pretty good. You are saying I would need water with the PH off and high mash temps?
Last edited by naptowndon on 10 Nov 2013, 13:38, edited 2 times in total.

Post #4 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
This thread caught my attention while on holiday. Here's some quick thoughts that may or may not be relevant (the very end is most relevant though I think)...

1. I really like Mad-Scientist's thoughts above.
2. The longer you brewr the more chance you have of exposing yourself to subtle infections. Less equipment reduces this chance.
3. Pull all your equipment apart especially ball-valves including those on kettles and any sort of tap on a fermentor.
4. Smell your equipment. Search this site for "nostril". Just doing that might help you find your problem straight away.
5. Do not crush your grain fine. All this does is expose lignin (tanninny stuff) to your brew. Read this BIABrewer post.
6. Don't say your efficiency is 70 to 75%. That means nothing. You need to define if that is your "kettle" or "fermentor" efficiency and what the original gravity of the recipe you are brewing is. No other site will pull you up on this but it is the most basic of questions when it comes to efficiency.
7. My main point would be however is that I am unsure of your main point :lol:

...Have just been reading and re-reading post #1 and there only seems to be one brew out of eight that has caused you distress. Is it just one brew of the eight that has caused you problems or are there more?

:think:
PP

P.S. Love the way you have given lots of info but I think we might need even more :dunno:.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 11 Nov 2013, 22:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #5 made 12 years ago
by naptowndon
The PH could be off as I was using tap water for the brews which could have a high PH. When trying to heat to the mashout temp I used a digital and regular dial thermometer to check. I may have hit 171 briefly trying to hit the goal of 170.6 according to my BIABcaus for 10 minutes. I guess my next batch I will not mashout and see what happens?

I have always been told, read, and watch people say they get better efficiency by using a fine crushed grain or double crushed grain. I did read the post and will change that going forward. My grain wasn't flour or pulverised but on my next batch I will not have them double crushed.

My EIK was 80.4% and my EIF was 70.1% with my gravity off from 1.058 to a 1.052.

PP I am unaware of your main point as well but I appreciate your numbered points of interest. My main point as in the title, something is off with my BIAB and I was looking to some experienced brewers that may have run into the same problem with this flavor and lack of body.

Post #6 made 12 years ago
by 2trout
naptowndon

you said...
and lack of body
My mash temps stay pretty steady at 152ish
A higher mash temp might add body to your brew? Lower temps tend to produce "drier" beers I think. Higher temps produce beers with a maltier flavor and more body due to unfermentable sugars?

Also Im with PP on the single brew really does not tell you much, and there may be a possible infection? I am currently drinking an infected batch or robust porter. I get gushers and a noticeable metallic/astringent flavor. (Its not so bad that I cant drink it, but I do need to open three big beers and let them gush to get 1 pint of beer. :argh: :drink: .)

trout

trout
Last edited by 2trout on 12 Dec 2013, 07:44, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #7 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
naptowndon wrote:PP I am unaware of your main point...
:) Nap, my main point was that I was unsure if you had brewed one crappy BIAB, eight crappy BIAB's or something in between. As trout mentioned, if only one, then we don't have much to work off.
naptowndon wrote:I will not have them double crushed.
Somewhere on this forum, there is a post that will tell you when to double crush as with some grain mills it is actually necessary. The double crush on these mills does not produce a finer crush, the second run just gets the grains that fell into the knarling the wrong way on the first run, crushed correctly. Hopefully that makes sense???

Good quality mills never need a second run but heaps of brewers and shops have crappy mills.

;)
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 12 Dec 2013, 20:01, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #8 made 11 years ago
by Squared
Do you know your water composition? Is your water treated with chlorine or chloramine?Try and get an analysis of your local water, online, or requested by phone or mail. Then see if it is a high pH or soft/hard.

Only reason I ask is that sometimes peoples local water composition can be surprising. I have moderately hard water, so if I do a lager I need to dilute the heck out of it.

If you have chloramine in your water I'd suggest you use a campden tab (or two) for you water (potassium metabisulphite) it will help break the bond in the chloramine so that the chlorine will be released out of solution.

Post #9 made 11 years ago
by jhough
Nap, I have not gotten into water comp, with my beers yet, but,
1) I do 90 min. mash at 154
2 can't do full BiaB , so I do a 1/2 sparge as a rinse w/ 190* water. Have not had a tannin or other taste problem yet after 5 batches .
3) Efficiency has been around 82-84 % with great malt flavor for those 5 batches.
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Post #10 made 11 years ago
by stm
Bitterness can sometimes be mistaken for astringency. Did you chill the "astringent" beer differently from the others? Eg, leaving the wort an extra 20 minutes post f/o before turning on the chiller?
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