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First Brew Planning

Post #1 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
Thanks in advanced for any and all help anyone is willing to provide.

The following is my plan for my first batch ever, yes I've not even done an extract brew before, so I'm trying to keep it as simple as I can, but hopefully it will result in something decent.

I've attached my BIABacus file for review, but the basic plan involves:

1 Gallon Batch
2 lbs of Great Western 2-row
1 oz of Cascade Hops

90 min mash (heat on stove top, rest in oven, mash out on stove top, then pull the bag, add heat while draining in colander above pot)

90 min boil with ~.25 oz hops at 60 and 10 mins, with ~.5 oz added with I kill the heat (electric stove) with a whirlpool & lid on for 30 mins (low heat?), then to the ice bath.

Poured though a filter into the primary then pitched (re-hydrated dry US-05)

House temps are high 60's to low 70's, so primary for 2 weeks, then secondary for 2 more. Bottle to 22oz bottles for 6-8 weeks.

Since I am so new and I'm basically pulling this from everything I've been reading for the last 2 months, please tell me where I'm off track, and tell me if I'm screwing up the BIABacus in any way vs the plan I just tried to layout.

I know this is a lot, but I appreciate any and all help/suggestions.
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-- In Primary --
NONE - Need to get busy

-- Bottled --
SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #2 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
Here's a few things for you Smash. Nice job on the file btw* :salute:,

Thirty IBU's is at the low end of he scale for an APA. What you could do is get rid of the 5.0 L you have typed on the first line of Section D and, on the second line, type in say, 38. This will adjust the hops on the right hand side to give you 38 IBU's.

On the whirfloc, only use 1/4 tablet. Too much can work against you.

In your post above, you mention, "...I kill the heat (electric stove) with a whirlpool & lid on for 30 mins (low heat?)..." During the 30 mins after the boil ends, you should have no heat at all. In fact, with that brew, I would be tempted to get it chilling straight at the boil end. Put it into your kitchen or laundry sink with water only. Let tht water heat up and drain it a few times. Add ice late in the process. Adding it earlier will waste it unnecessarily.

You probably can forget about pouring through a filter. It will probably cause you more problems than anything else and it really isn't necessary. If you lift your kettle gently from the ice bath and pour it gently into your fermentor, you will find it easy to pour off clear wort and a bit of trub going in won't hurt.

If you are going to use a secondary, use it after one week while there is still a bit of activity going on. Leave it in the secondary for another week, two at most (three is excessive).

Once bottled, you can crack your first one after two weeks. Seeing as your batch size is so small, maybe try using smaller bottles so as you can taste the beer more frequently.

Nice job smash :peace:,
PP
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Post #3 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
Pistol

Thanks for the information, I've updated the BIABacus accordingly. Is 1/4 whirlfloc appropriate for this batch size?

I was debating the hop stand and was thinking I was adding complexity (risk of infection?), but really wanted to get those hoppy aromas captured.

I've also been debating cranking up the IBU's as well, that was just the push I needed, I went to 42 which gives me an easy to measure 2 oz: .5 at 60, .5 at 10, and 1 at flame out, and to better match my west coat APA palette.

After all my reading I was pretty much convinced I didn't want to secondary, but I have a 2 gallon primary bucket and a gallon secondary, and sort of thought maybe I would like to try it so the next batch I can dry hop in secondary. Should I just forgo the secondary all together? If I do I can shoot for a 6 liter batch into my primary, but worry that it won't clear true-to-style as well... maybe that's too much worry for the first batch?
-- In Primary --
NONE - Need to get busy

-- Bottled --
SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #4 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
1/4 tab is good for that bath size smash.

I think the hoppy aromas are going to be trapped if you chill straight away. The hops release oils and you really don't want them evaporating off.

I think if your secondary is that small, maybe forget it. Just use the one gallon 'secondary' at bottling as a priming bucket maybe? Just do two drains into it. This will give you clear beer if you transfer gently from the primary.

You can also still dry hop in the primary. Just do it maybe three or four days before bottling. If you put the hop pellets in a hop bag, this will reduce your trub.

:peace:
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Post #5 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
PP, Thanks again for all the help.

Brew day is tomorrow, and I'm attaching the final file in case any one is following along on the thread.

The amounts of grain and hops was tweaked to what I have on hand and to sort of establish a baseline brew to build on.

I will post the brew day notes when I get them all together, and update this thread with the tasting results in a couple of months.
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-- In Primary --
NONE - Need to get busy

-- Bottled --
SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #7 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
Well, it was a first attempt and as such went not so smoothly. I was a bit taken aback by the extreme amount of trub, and my lower gravities, that i ended up. Which, in turn, threw off how much wort I had in the fermenter, and I don't think I pitched exactly as i had intended.

I am watching the fermenter with a wary eye.

In the end the mashing was easier/funner than I thought and I didn't plan enough for trub management. I am looking forward to giving it another go, with a bit more malt and better filtering into the fermenter.
-- In Primary --
NONE - Need to get busy

-- Bottled --
SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #8 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
:P SM.

Good on you for getting your first one under your belt. These small batch sizes are actually much harder to do in some ways than larger ones so :clap:.

When you get a chance,if you were able to take some measurements and put them into your file, post it up and we'll have a look. Also give a bit more info on how long you let the kettle sit for etc after chilling.

One thing I am thinking is that I should have advised you to use your BIAB bag as a hop sock but that is often pretty hard to do on a stove-top BIAB :dunno:. You did end up making a fairly hoppy beer so it would be no wonder you had a lot of difficult trub to deal with.

:peace:
PP
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Post #9 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
Okay, so here is the completed file (to the best of my ability).

My kettle has the volumes built into it, but I sort of guessed on the fermentor, but it is about half full and it's 2 gallons, so it's more or less right.

I tried to calculate my gravity(s) using an online temperature compensation calculator tool, I forget which one I used, as I remembered I had to do that last min and just ran to the computer and pulled it up.

I sort of forgot to buy the hop device I was thinking of (very large stainless tea ball, which in retrospect would have been too small anyway) so I just said to heck with it and threw in my hops loose (whole leaf). It smelled amazing!

I whirl pooled the wort at flame out (sounds better than turned the electric stove off) after the hops went in, and then threw the lid on and straight into the chill bath. I waited 30 mins (because of my earlier tests) changing and swirling the water as much as I could while I tried to get my yeast re-hydrated. When I eventually opened the lid to check on the temp, I was in shock to see Mt Hopsuvius (name for my batch?) inside my kettle! So the whirlpool worked, but there was just so much (I wish I would have taken a picture).

On the transfer (poured) it clogged up my funnel(with screen) at about the gallon mark. I sort of panicked a bit, and decided that cleaning and re-sterilizing would be too much exposure and just went with what I had. So the loss from Kettle to Fermentor is my fault.

The Wort in the Fermentor still looked like Miso Soup, so who knows how much I will lose when it all settles out.

I had grams to teaspoon/tablespoon in my head, but in the heat of the moment trying to chill the wort and re-hydrate the yeast I just pitched a tablespoon into 2.5 oz of water (boiled 4 oz in the microwave) once it was 68F and called it good.

In the end I was shooting for a gallon anyway, so hopefully I get at least 4 bombers out of the batch. ha!

The fermentor was bubbling very slowly this morning, so hopefully it's the US-05 slow start I read about and not my pitching rate and goopy wort.

Lessons Learned:

- I need to pre-measure some things a little better, which I knew better, but didn't do better.
- come up with a trub management plan, and execute it.
- keep calm, I was surprised at how "fast" everything seemed to go after the KO.
- I really enjoyed doing my multi-step mash, it appealed to my need to fuss with it, and I'm glad I went AG my first time out.
- I found that doing my mash steps in C was easier to manage/read (40-60-70).

Questions Remaining:

- When multi-step mashing the time it takes to increase the temperature was not accounted for (by me) so my mash time was probably closer to 120 mins as I only timed the "rests". Is that a problem, should I compensate for this time? It certainly didn't seem to help my efficiency.

- Is it common to clog the funnel screen with the wort, or did I somehow just have way to much solids in my wort? Should I use two bags? Should i line the fermentor bucket with a bag and just dump it all in and strain it out that way (more risk of infection?)?

- I'm sure there are more things I'm forgetting to ask, to be continued...
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-- In Primary --
NONE - Need to get busy

-- Bottled --
SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #10 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
Hey there SM :salute:,

Firstly, :lol: on the enjoyable read above - good on ya ;).

There are a few things here we need to look at though...

1. Temperature Correction of Gravity Mesurements - There's actually a 'Hydrometer Temperature Calibration' tool on Sheet 2 of the BIABacus but DON'T TAKE HOT GRAVITY READINGS!!! Wait until they are within ten degrees of your hydrometer calibration temperature. Temperature corrected gravity readings of very hot wort are always dodgy.

2. Trub Management - If you are using whole hops and are dealing with this small kettle size, perhaps just putting a colander over the mouth of your fermentor and pouring the kettle slowly into that will do the trick? Don't be overly worried about infection if you are pitching straight away and you are working indoors. You are mainly trying to avoid wild yeasts at that stage of the proceedings.

Another option, that would result in the clearest trub and maximum wort, I think, would be to use a narrow (3/8" or 9.5 mm) syphon with a scrubby (stainless steel wool - not the rusty kind) on the end. This will give a very good result with the only disadvantage being that it is a bit clumsy. Not as much as you'd think though.

3. Yeast Pitching - I wouldn't even worry about re-hydrating in your first few brews, if ever. Read this thread and make your own decision. If I go to the trouble of re-hydrating, I go the extra step and acclimatise it to the actual wort.

4. Things Going 'Fast' - That's a really good point and it's one of the reasons that in the BIAB Checklist I wrote 7 years ago and I think we still have in the Master Guide here atm, emphasises setting up equipment and weighing things out the day before. It really does make a difference.

5. Multi-Step Mash - Don't worry about the 120 minute mash. That's fine. Normally, as far as I remember, your time between steps is 1 degree celsius per minute. Like everything, there's probably a heap of misinformation on this though so do a lot of googling on it. Personally, I am happy to just spend the extra time.

6. Clogging - Yes, it will happen if you use a fine screen over the mouth of your fermentor. A fine screen at the beginning of a gentle syphon such as suggested in 2 above is an entirely different matter. That doesn't clog.

7. Bag Porosity - Check that your bag is of the right porosity. I suspect from what I read and see on other forums that a lot of people are using bags for BIAB that are too coarse. You want 30 to 40 threads per centimetre. Either use a magnifying glass and ruler or take a photo of your cloth against a ruler with your mobile phone to count the threads.

Your BIABacus File

I've already mentioned (I think) how much harder smaller brews are in many ways. One thing is that they are harder to measure. The first thing I look at in a file though is Section P. What I am looking for is some agreement between EIK and EOBE (in later BIABacus versions EOBE is called EAW). Theoretically these should be the same. In practice, I 'd like to see them within 5%. In your case, they are nearly 20% different so this tells me there is definitely a big measurement error somewhere, more likely several.

I think the temperature thing I mentioned in 1 above will be a big culprit. Another culprit can be relying on the graduated marks of your vessels. These are often wrong believe it or not. Use your bathroom scales to check them before you brew next. Remember, one litre of water (not wort) weighs one kilogram.

Also consider using a stainless steel ruler to measure your kettle volumes if you aren't doing so already.

So, numbers wise, the only thing we can really tell for now is that we need to do the above before and during your next brew. The next few brews will then tell us if anything worrying is going on. I think you'll be right ;).

...

I am always really impressed when someone jumps straight into all-grain without brewing any other way before. You've done really well SM.

:thumbs: :clap: :champ:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 08 Jan 2014, 19:17, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #11 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
PP,

I cannot thank you enough for your help and guidance on this. I'm still digesting everything, and I'll give it another go with the corrections you've mentioned factored into my plan/brewing.

Thanks again!
-- In Primary --
NONE - Need to get busy

-- Bottled --
SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #12 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
Okay, just to follow-up on this in case anyone is keeping track, or for new people to search for later (don't you hate it when discussions about recipes end and you never know how the beer turned out?)....

I transferred to secondary after a week, because I'm inpatient and I wanted my primary fermenter free to brew another batch. Anyway, I was so happy to discover that there was beer in there! It looked good, smelled good, gravity was in the teens. I assume a week in secondary will be fine, but I may go two weeks.

I will post back when I bottle and let you know the FG and eventually how it tastes!
-- In Primary --
NONE - Need to get busy

-- Bottled --
SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #13 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
Bottled batch #1! I had about 10oz "extra" due to my use of 22oz bottles. I drank it, and it was. . . drinkable. Hopefully with some conditioning/age it will be better.

It was a light beer, to be expected, but the Cascade nose and flavor didn't come though, though it did have a nice bitterness to it. Hopefully it will with some carbonation?

I think I'm going to need to work dry hoping into my "routine" to get what I'm expecting.

I have high hopes for my third batch (done today) it's Golden Promise & Citra. OG 1.052 expected IBU 70.
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-- In Primary --
NONE - Need to get busy

-- Bottled --
SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #15 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
Okay so my #1 batch has been in the bottle for 3 weeks, so I opened one finally. It was not carbonated at all, there was the tiniest of pressure changes when it was opened, but there was no head and it was obviously flat. I have had this feeling in my gut that it wouldn't be because there was almost no yeast in the bottom of the secondary. I don't have a bottling bucket so I just went with the sugar drops, and I used the 2 per 650ml bottle as recommended.

I'm bottling again today, but this time I think I pitched better and i'm bottling straight from the primary, so I guess we'll see. If this doesn't work I guess I'll have to get a bottling bucket setup. It didn't seem important for 1 gal batches.

Anyway, as far as taste goes, it was much the same as the sample I had on bottling day. I was not thrilled with the resulting taste (regardless of being flat). My wife said it tasted like a lemony hefe, and that she would actually like it if it wasn't flat. I don't have the refined palette to tell you what I didn't like, but I think it was unbalanced on the bitter side without a strong hop flavor (just that lemony-tart note). Maybe that's a result of the malt or the way I'm mashing..

Honestly, I said to anyone that would listen that I didn't have high expectations for my first batch, but that must have been a lie because I was disappointed when it came out flat and was not that enjoyable.

I will post the photos when I get a chance.
-- In Primary --
NONE - Need to get busy

-- Bottled --
SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #16 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
I think here, we have a lot of posts worrying about your first brew SM. I've said above how hard small brews are and we've looked above at what things you can improve. In your post above, you said you changed two things but, from memory, there were quite a few things that you could change or focus on on your second brew.

I hope you got them all!!!*

:think:
PP

*Bottling straight from the primary will not solve any worries I don't think.

Anyway, cheer up mate ;). The American hops I have this year are shit. First time it has ever happened to me. Maybe you are getting the same thing?
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Post #17 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
Here is the final update with the photo attached. Again, the biggest issues is that it is flat, I can live with tweaking the taste to my liking, but I need to fix my carbonation problem!

BTW I used the sugar drops (I believe brewers best) and I used the recommended 2 drops per 22oz bottle.
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SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #18 made 11 years ago
by Rick
I read that your house temps are high 60's/ low 70's, is this the environment you are storing your bottles for conditioning?

I can't imagine it still being flat, unless you were storing them cold or something.
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Post #19 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
Rick,

Actually the room they are in is around 64-66, but we had a cold spell where I noticed it was down in the 61-62 range. Could that cause the conditioning to stop, or perhaps just slow-down?
-- In Primary --
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-- Bottled --
SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #20 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
Smash, that is weird as :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:,

As Rick will tell you, those temperatures are fine. And two drops, assuming they are the same as the ones we have here, should be perfect. (Our drops are 3.5 grams each here.)

The only things I can think of here are...

1. Faulty bottle capper
2. Faulty bottle caps
3. The yeast was killed somehow before or soon after bottling
4. Dodgy drops but can't imagine that*

Does the beer taste sweet at all? (Not sure if you could detect 7 grams of unfermented sugar in a beer or not?)

* You could test number four above by adding 7 grams of normal sugar and re-capping a bottle or two and try again in a few weeks. Wear safety glasses when handling them!!!
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Post #21 made 11 years ago
by alymere
I've read somewhere but can't remember if it was on here or one of the other forums about some crown caps being all metal for craft purposes and not having the backing on them that creates the airtight seal?
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Post #22 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
There was a very slight pssst when I opened the bottle, not that it eliminates bad caps or capper. The caps have the plastic lining and the capper is new, though the cheap kit kind.

I'm out of town this weekend, but will open one and scrutinize the items mentioned. I have my second batch in the bottles now, so in a couple of weeks I'll have another chance!
-- In Primary --
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-- Bottled --
SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #23 made 11 years ago
by mally
The majority of my bottled beers become fully carbonated within a week or two.... However, I have had the odd batch that have literally taken a couple of months to carbonate.
In one respect I am fortunate that I use PET bottles, as I can test carbonation by giving them a squeeze.

Could it be they are being obstinate and just need more time?
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #24 made 11 years ago
by smashmouth
Not to drag this old thread back to life, but rather to make it a complete loop to any new person scouring for information.

The 22oz bottles, just seemed to need more time. I had a couple of bottles left from my January batches and we drank them during the world cup and there was a nice head on each glass!
-- In Primary --
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-- Bottled --
SIMpatiCOE Pale Ale #7

Post #25 made 11 years ago
by alanem
Thanks SM and all involved in this post, it has been great reading and thank you SM for following up after you bottled your brew, as you say there is a lot of unfinished posts that end at bottling with no follow up of how it finished later on (myself included) regarding how it was at opening date, eg: taste, condition, etc. and to read the tips on how to improve the brew, after all a lot of people do follow these type of posts from the start and would like to hear the total end result....Lesson learned.
I used to spill more than I drink these days!
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