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Kettle suggestion?

Post #1 made 12 years ago
by Phog98
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

I could use a little advice here. My question is that I currently have an 8 gallon kettle. I'm looking at selling some stuff (metal AG 2 tier setup with non-finished HLT, MT, and BK from a garage sale...never used but not completedhttp://topeka.craigslist.org/for/4197905187.html) to get a 15 gal from Spike Brewing but I'm having a hard time with the cost as I'd also like to get a grain mill and some storage for the grain. The last partial mash full boil I did was really pushing the limits of the 8 gal kettle!!

So..if I get a 15 gal kettle. Do I get the ball valve, therm, and sight glass or just the BV and Therm? I wasn't sure how much a sight glass would be needed...it adds quite a bit to the cost. Anyways, any thoughts and opinions are greatly appreciated. I'm pretty set on the Spike Brewing due to the horizontal set-up for 5 gal batches.

I guess the other option is to just use the stuff from the garage sale but it takes up way to much room. I'd like to do BIAB.

Thanks!

Phog

PS> is $350 reasonable for what I have listed on CL? I haven't had any inquiries yet but there is another listed in Kansas City that is wood for $250. I'm just wanting to sell this thing and everything else I got with it to help pay for the new kettle lol
Last edited by Phog98 on 29 Nov 2013, 21:58, edited 2 times in total.

Post #2 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
Phog98,

A 15.5 gallon beer keg can be had for the cost of a returned keg. Approx $35? You simply cut out the top and you have a big pot at a small price. It may not be the most honest way to procure one but when has the big breweries ever done you a favor? Plenty of information on the web (and you tube) on how to safely modify a keg.

You don't need a sight glass or thermometer. If you no-chill a ball valve is nice for draining. A simple brew bag, pot and a heat source is all that's needed for BIAB.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #3 made 12 years ago
by Phog98
Thanks for the help. I actually have a keg that I had bought from a garage sale that has a ball valve and therm hole started, I just need to finish fitting it. I was curious though if the bag would work as well due to the smaller opening. I guess I could always re-cut the lid opening...so for aluminum, do you just use a file to round off the sharp edges or is there something else for aluminum? This would be a nice way to be able to throw my money towards a grain mill too :-)

Post #4 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
Phog98.

The kegs are usually Stainless Steel. I used a Dremel tool to cut the opening. It took a hour and I broke a lot of blades but the hole was perfect. I used the Dremel tool with some? attachment to smooth the edge and then some metal (steel wool??) pad to further smooth the edge.

I put in a thermometer and a valve to finish it. I could have done without the thermometer but I love the valve for no-chill. The valve has never been cleaned except for running starsan thru it after each use. I have never had a problem with an infection no will I ever have a need to take it apart for cleaning.

http://www.stempski.com/biab.php Look here to see the set up.

here is the Dremel tool.
Dremel.jpg
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Last edited by BobBrews on 01 Dec 2013, 00:54, edited 2 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #7 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
Phog98,

I cut it 12.5 inches across (31.75 Centimeters) I tied a string around the center post of the keg. I tied the other end of the string around the Dremel and pulled it taught. As I moved the blade around the top I scored a perfect circle. I then cut the top off by slowly moving the dremel disk around the scored top. I broke a lot of disks as they are brittle. I bought a package of them before starting.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #8 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
[Sorry, I wrote this yesterday but didn't press submit. If you do go for a ball-valve, search the site for the word "nostril" as well for some tips on how to manage it.]

Hi Phog and welcome to the forum :peace:,

If it were me and you have an immersion chiller, I would be just getting a plain kettle and using a syphon. Every hole you drill in a kettle is a potential source of future problems.

For example, if you use the Advanced Search feature here you can look for posts done by me that contain the phrase "1500" "ball-valves" or "kettle taps". Any of those should lead you to a some more info on how these can cause infections and also how they simply often require a lot more work. The transfer might be a bit less clumsy than a syphon but you don't get the control of a syphon and you don't have to spend a lot of time and energy cleaning a syphon.

Avoid a kettle thermometer. Regardless, when taking a temp reading, you have to agitate the wort to get a proper one. It is easy to put a thermometer in the wort whilst doing this. Never rely on one thermometer as many, including kettle ones, are inaccurate.

As for buying a grain mill, maybe read this thread as it has some views that might be of help.

I love gadgets and bling but pretty much every gadget I have made or bought has ended up being a time waster rather than a time saver so be very wary of adding more equipment to your brewery.

Can't help you in the price question sorry Phog.

Nice avatar mate ;,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 01 Dec 2013, 04:51, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #9 made 12 years ago
by Phog98
Thanks for the info!! My wife is sooo tired of me talking about it and changing my mind on what to do lol.

The keg I have has a BV and Therm hole punched already, so I have to install those...however, I can just finish the install and sell too. I do have an immersion chiller and currently use an auto siphon to remove the wort so that's not really a biggie to keep doing.

My keggle problem is more that the guy I bought it from cut a pretty small hole, I think to small for BIAB and I think it will be hard to re-cut it uniformly...

man you burst my bubble I'v been salivating over some SS quick release fittings this afternoon while watching football lol

I love how there are so many options...getting a 15 gal pot or an un-cut keg seem to be my leading options atm...keggle would definitely be the cheapest route

Post #10 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Phog98 wrote:man you burst my bubble, I've been salivating over...
:lol: Phog.

The following is an opinion. I can't really write a good answer here unless I know your situation exactly now and in the future and I don't think even you could know that!

Let's rewind a bit and look at what will most likely serve you best in the long run.

Firstly, I think if you are considering a 15 gallon kettle you would be better off setting your sites to an 18 or 19 gallon stock pot. This gives you the option of being able to single or double batch easily if we consider a batch being 5 gallons into your fermentor on an average gravity brew.

So maybe keep your immersion chiller and syphon and sell the rest for now and don't give it a second thought.

This will serve you best because...

1. You will have a base (kettle, immersion chiller and syphon) that will serve you immediately and not cause you many problems.

2. You will be able to double-batch.

3. You will be able to chill and no-chill on a single batch (like I do) in the future.

4. You won't be having to deal with annoying things like extending your brew day by an hour just to make sure your kettle tap is clean and sanitised.

...

I started writing this post in a totally different theme based on a past profession of mine. The original theme was that it is the little, continually aggravating things in life that wear us down. In that theme, I am saying, don't invest too much in a small kettle and don't drill unnecessary holes in any kettle. Stuff you attach to those holes might look great but are generally only good for serving KoolAid.

;)
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 01 Dec 2013, 23:14, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #11 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
4. You won't be having to deal with annoying things like extending your brew day by an hour just to make sure your kettle tap is clean and sanitized.
This is total RUBBISH! There is no need to clean or sanitize a kettle tap for no chill. No need whatsoever. Normal cleaning of the kettle and rising out thru the tap is all that is needed. Your running boiling wort thru a already hot tap onto a sanitized cube that will hold the temperature past the sterilization point for quite a while. A tap on a kettle is perfect for no-chill.

When I don't use no chill ( I did it last year (once) in a comparison test ) I still run it thru the tap. The same tap that has been sitting 1 inch from 80,000 BTU burner for 90 minutes! Never an infection. Never a problem Like the one I had from using a immersion chiller. I lost three batches in a row until I spied a leak dripping well water into my wort. My fault (bad weld).

Kettle tapes are fine and require little or no maintenance. :thumbs: Fermenter bucket taps can cause problems. Many beers that become infected are from the taps in fermentation buckets. They can be harborers of bacteria if not cleaned regularly. I run StarSan thru them after each cleaning and again before fermentation.
Last edited by BobBrews on 02 Dec 2013, 00:51, edited 2 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #12 made 12 years ago
by Lylo
BobBrews wrote:
4. You won't be having to deal with annoying things like extending your brew day by an hour just to make sure your kettle tap is clean and sanitized.
This is total RUBBISH! There is no need to clean or sanitize a kettle tap for no chill. No need whatsoever. Normal cleaning of the kettle and rising out thru the tap is all that is needed. Your running boiling wort thru a already hot tap onto a sanitized cube that will hold the temperature past the sterilization point for quite a while. A tap on a kettle is perfect for no-chill.

When I don't use no chill ( I did it last year (once) in a comparison test ) I still run it thru the tap. The same tap that has been sitting 1 inch from 80,000 BTU burner for 90 minutes! Never an infection. Never a problem Like the one I had from using a immersion chiller. I lost three batches in a row until I spied a leak dripping well water into my wort. My fault (bad weld).

Kettle tapes are fine and require little or no maintenance. :thumbs: Fermenter bucket taps can cause problems. Many beers that become infected are from the taps in fermentation buckets. They can be harborers of bacteria if not cleaned regularly. I run StarSan thru them after each cleaning and again before fermentation.
:clap: :thumbs: Well said Bob!
Last edited by Lylo on 02 Dec 2013, 01:57, edited 2 times in total.
AWOL

Post #13 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Guys, I have to get to work but if you read my posts properly, you'll find in the first one that I wrote this...
PistolPatch wrote:If it were me and you have an immersion chiller, I would be just getting a plain kettle and using a syphon. Every hole you drill in a kettle is a potential source of future problems.
I spend more time than anyone else here writing details that try to consider the individual's situation.

One problem I have is that I can't spend even more hours writing here. But, at no stage did Phog say he was going to no-chill and my quote above acknowledges this. If you want me to spend my entire life writing so as to cover every situation that every brewer might embark on sometime in the future, then let me know.

...

Be very careful when you tell people they won't have problems with a kettle tap. Firstly consider whether they will chill or no-chill. If they are chilling, make sure you warn them that there is a potential for infection. Some people will have a problem and some will not, it depends a lot on their tap set-up but not entirely. I have written enough on this forum about this to explain why.

Advising people not to give a damn is why we end up with brewers trying to find a problem in their beer a year after they start brewing and then never finding it.

Fair enough guys?

[One thing I will give you is that the hour is an exaggeration but not by much.]
Last edited by PistolPatch on 02 Dec 2013, 06:48, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #14 made 12 years ago
by Phog98
I've never even heard of no chill lol...I use a SS Immersion chiller, at least thus far. The kettle I was eyeing is a welded bulkhead...not sure if that helps or not. After a lot of debating, until I can sell stuff I'm stuck with using the cooler MT I got at the garage sale to do AG. If some of my crap gets sold, the future plan is to do BIAB but now looking at moving from the 15g to the 20g...although I don't think I'll do double batches, but who knows what will change and as pricey as kettles are, well bigger is safer. I also might look at the keggle option as someone mentioned. The pre-drilled keggle I have might be jacked up...I know the dude jacked the kettle and I'm trying to figure out if I can salvage it due to where he pre-drilled the holes.

One thing, im my very limited experience, is that there are many opinions. I like to respect them all as they are most likely based off of each persons personal experiences in brewing. We all learn and grow from our experiences. Case in point, a friend of mine thinks I'm half crazy doing a BIAB...he is ignorant to it and a 3v brewer...but I really like the perks of BIAB and want to get there.

I appreciate all of your input...it helps develop a plan of action for my circumstances...I'm just torn on what to try and spend money on and what not too. I need a grain mill...so I think I'm buying that and waiting to stuff sells to either move to a keggle or kettle.

Do you guys suggest a ss racking cane or auto siphon? I have an auto siphon but I'm just waiting for it to break.....

Post #15 made 12 years ago
by alymere
I have started doing no chill. My kettle has no tap so I use a jiggle syphon. I bought one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/JIGGLE-SYPHON-D ... B00BBVQURE , I then replaced the hose with some silicone hose that could withstand the hot wort. I don't worry about any trub getting into the cube as it settles out before I pour it into the fv.
Last edited by alymere on 02 Dec 2013, 12:48, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #16 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Nice post on the jigglers alymere ;).

Funnily enough, if you do an advanced search of Lylo's posts using the word "jiggler" you will get posts ranging from, "I really like it," to that he likes a spigot much better now. Those posts had some valid points and anyone with a jiggler should read them. (Not sure why you didn't take the time to pass that knowledge on above Lylo :scratch:. I think it is because I am beating you at Cheese :lol:).

Auto-syphons whether they are the jiggler type or the Fermtech perspex type, just like kettle spigots have problems which you should be made aware of. I think an advanced search of posts done by me with the words "syphon" and "diameter" will reveal some of these.

Anyway, in light of this thread so far, I suppose an essay needs to be written and stickied on syphons and spigots. I'll knock one up in the abundance of spare time that I have. Don't hold your breath :). Until then, maybe anyone who can contribute some constructive info or old links can do so here?

Phog

Also a nice post above :peace:. I think it is fine to keep using whatever you have on hand. Why not? My advice on buying a bigger kettle and having no holes in it was written with an awareness of your situation. Bigger kettles cost very little more than the size below so it is not a big expense getting a slightly larger kettle. Adding stuff to a kettle later if you need to can be done just as well then as now - maybe just a bit of time cost.

BobBrews above (who's in a bad mood because his football team lost last week - lol), myself and many others used to three-vessel but now BIAB. Crusty who spent a billion dollars on an automated 3V vessel also now BIAB's because he thinks it makes better beer. So, you are in very good company.

Finally, do you really think you need a grain mill? No mail order or local shop? Did you get time to read this post? I really can't see many situations where a grain mill is going to be a money saver Phog.

Just take your time and start with necessities only. Get them right (size and quality) and you will save a fortune in the end.

;)
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 02 Dec 2013, 21:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #17 made 12 years ago
by Phog98
I'll go read that post on the grain mill you posted, thanks! From reading other posts, it seemed as if people really liked doing their own milling b/c of improved efficiency. We do have a local shop, just opened, but he doesn't buy it in bulk and repackage...basically buys company X's grain in prepackaged sizes and resells...so it is hard to justify spending the $$. I can order 50lb bags from Northern Brewer for base malts anyways...and I can order smaller sized already crushed like you mentioned.

I'll check the post out...this seems to be getting cheaper and cheaper if y'all keep talking me out of stuff lol....which makes for a happier wife lol.

Post #18 made 12 years ago
by alymere
PP I had read the posts about the diameter of the hose on a syphon previously. I fitted a 1/2" diameter platinum cured silicone hose knowing that I wouldn't be putting the hops directly in but using the bag for them.

The jiggle syphon hasn't blocked once yet on the 3 brews that I have done no chill.

It really does a great job and only sucks a small area of the trub up as long as I control it when the pot is almost empty. I lose very little liquid, hard to measure the exact amount due to the depth of the pot and my bad eyesight! I should pour it into a measuring jug next time to check.

Straight after syphoning though you do need to give it a really good clean but it is very easy to do. No dismantling at all.
Last edited by alymere on 02 Dec 2013, 22:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #19 made 12 years ago
by Phog98
Read the mill post, I just had a buddy tell me there is another grain supplier that runs out of his garage to keep costs down so I'm going to check him out. He also only lives 5 minutes from my house so that is a nice option.
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