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My first brew was a bust. Help me design my next brew!

Post #1 made 12 years ago
by Weisseguy
Desired style of beer: IPA, WHEAT ex. Lagunitas lil sumpin :pray: , racer 5, hoptimum, rouge dead guy.
Pot size 13 5/8 x 10 5/8 a 7 gallon pot
1 gallon recipee or a 3 gallon depending on if I can ferment 3 gallons in a 5 gallon carbon? Air space concerns and all.


My last brew was a dud. I went to the brew shop and told the guy what style of beer I wanted. He found a recipe he had made up, it was for DME and a 1 gallon recipe,he went ahead and did the conversions in his head. Then he tells me that he has been drinking most of the afternoon, and was feeling pretty buzzed. That's when a tiny alarm went off in my head, but, hey this guy owns a brew shop. Wo am I to question him. Anyhow, I can't be sure that the 1.8 pounds of grain was correct. I am hoping that you guys will be able to help me with these numbers and maybe some of the other things I shoul expect when trying to brew with my set up.

Post #2 made 12 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Hey Weisseguy, I have ran my famed recipe through the BIABacus to scale it down to three gallons.

Your kettle dimensions came out to a 5.23 gallon kettle. If you can re-confirm. I got 10.63" / 27 cm as diameter and 13.62" / 34.6 cm as height, totaling 19.8 L / 5.25 Gal. I can re-run the report if it is a bigger pot, that would allow you a full pure BIAB with no pre-boil dilution.

[center]BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3 RECIPE REPORT[/center]
[center]BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.[/center]
[center](Please visit http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the latest version.)[/center]
[center]CYBI Rogue Dead Guy ; July 6, 2009 Broadcast Date[/center]

Recipe Overview
Brewer: Mad Scientist
Style:
Source Recipe Link:

Original Gravity (OG): 1.065
IBU's (Tinseth): 40
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.62
Colour: 16.3 EBC = 8.3 SRM
ABV%: 6.54

Efficiency into Kettle (EIK): 83.3 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 75.1 %

Note: This is a Full-Volume Variation - FVV with a pre-boil dilution

Times and Temperatures
Mash: 90 mins at 67.2 C = 153 F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment:

Volumes & Gravities
Total Water Needed (TWN): 19.05 L = 5.03 G
Volume into Kettle (VIK): 17.53 L = 4.63 G @ 1.051
End of Boil Volume - Ambient (EOBV-A): 13.32 L = 3.52 G @ 1.065
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 12 L = 3.17 G @ 1.065
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 11.56 L = 3.05 G @ 1.016 assuming apparent attenuation of 76 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)
67.5% Rahr 2 row (3.5 EBC = 1.8 SRM) 2354 grams = 5.19 pounds!
22.8% Bress Bonlander Munich (25.2 EBC = 12.8 SRM) 794 grams = 1.75 pounds!
9.8% Great Western C 15 (29.6 EBC = 15 SRM) 341 grams = 0.75 pounds

The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)
40 IBU Perle Pellets (7.5%AA) 32 grams = 1.13 ounces at 60 mins
0 IBU Sterling Pellets (4.8%AA) 25.3 grams = 0.892 ounces at 0 mins

Mash Steps
Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash) for 90 mins at 67.2 C = 152.96 F
Water Held Back from Mash: 3 L = 0.79 G
Mashout for for 15 mins at 77 C = 170.6 F
Water Added After Final Lauter: 3 L = 0.79 G

Miscellaneous Ingredients
1/2 Whirlfloc ()5 Mins

Chilling & Hop Management Methods
Hopsock Used: Y
Chilling Method: No-Chill

Fermentation& Conditioning
Fermention: Safale US-05
Secondary Used: N
Crash-Chilled: Y
Filtered: N

Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer

Maxi-BIAB Adjustments
Water Held Back from Mash: 3 L = 0.79 G
Water Added After Final Lauter: 3 L = 0.79 G
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 24 Oct 2013, 06:53, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #4 made 12 years ago
by Weisseguy
Mad, I double checked on the pot. I looked at the sticker that I had peeled off of it when I bought it. It said 28 q which I believe is 7 gallons. I am really trying not to be a pain. I hope that I can still use your recipee even though my pot is bigger?

Post #8 made 12 years ago
by Weisseguy
Ok, I downloaded the Biabicus. Once with your recipe already loaded, the second time I used a blank. I put in my dimensions for the pot using the blank it figured to be 19 liters, not it gets weird maybe you know why? When used the Biabicus with the rouge recipe i plugged in the numbers i changed the VIF number also to 1 gallon finally it said my kettle was 23.3 liters. Why the discrepancy? Also whenever I change the number it changes the other fields to "name#" not sure why? I know I have allot of questions.

Post #9 made 12 years ago
by mally
Weisseguy - It looks like Richard has sorted you out. It may be better for you to wait until he can upload his version that he did for you.
You should then only have to worry about changing the kettle details (if they are different), removing the dilution info (if you can full volume), and if you do not use a hopsock, type N in that field. These will all have an effect on the grain & water required.


If you want to read a quick guide to BIABacus & brewing terminology look here.

For the short term I wouldn't worry too much about the fermenter headspace. During active ferment, the yeast gives off CO2, and this is heavier than oxygen, so you have a blanket of protection for a little while. Just don't go lifting the lid & wafting the headspace air otherwise you can disturb it.

:luck:
Last edited by mally on 24 Oct 2013, 14:54, edited 2 times in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #10 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Weisseguy wrote:I put in my dimensions for the pot using the blank it figured to be 19 liters, not it gets weird maybe you know why? When used the Biabicus with the rouge recipe i plugged in the numbers i changed the VIF number also to 1 gallon finally it said my kettle was 23.3 liters. Why the discrepancy?

Also whenever I change the number it changes the other fields to "name#" not sure why? I know I have allot of questions. I think you may have a corrupted file.
It sounds to me as though you have a corrupted file. Sometimes this can happen if you open it in something like LibreOffice or OpenOffice. Sometimes this unprotects the spreadsheet and all hell can break loose then :). Definitely do not use Google Sheets to view/use The BIABacus.

If this doesn't make sense to you then see if you can upload your file here.

If the file is uncorrupted and you have a stock pot with straight sides and bottom, the Kettle Capacity calculated by the BIABacus will be correct. If you have bathroom scales, you can check this as one litre of water weighs one kilogram. You can use the second sheet of the BIABacus to convert gallons to litres etc.

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 24 Oct 2013, 19:45, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #11 made 12 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Attached is the file. It is set as a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash). The kettle capacity can be changed if it's not correct, and the VIF in Section B, for that matter.
BIABacus PR1.3 - Mad Scientist Dead Guy.xls
p.s. I rebooted my computer for the upload to work. First rule in IT. :lol:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 25 Oct 2013, 05:52, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #12 made 12 years ago
by Weisseguy
Thanks allot, the Biabicus is awesome. I am having trouble understanding the volumes section though. I read Mallys post about this, so let me tell you my thoughts and see if they are correct.
The TWN is the amount of water I start with, the Mash volume is the amount in the kettle after I add grain, and the VIF is the amount after the grain is pulled? Is this thinking correct? Also
mad, am I supposed to hold back some water for the lautering? Or is this what you mean by full volume mash?
And the hops in the last stage stay in the hot water for 40 minutes before I chill out correct?
Thanks

Post #13 made 12 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Weisseguy wrote:Thanks allot, the Biabicus is awesome. I am having trouble understanding the volumes section though. I read Mallys post about this, so let me tell you my thoughts and see if they are correct.
The TWN is the amount of water I start with, the Mash volume is the amount in the kettle after I add grain, and the VIF is the amount after the grain is pulled? Is this thinking correct? Also
mad, am I supposed to hold back some water for the lautering? Or is this what you mean by full volume mash?
And the hops in the last stage stay in the hot water for 40 minutes before I chill out correct?
Thanks
The volumes section k is my favorite part along with sections s and t. You can follow the line across from section k to section s and t. So you can see that the mash volume exceeds the kettle size (-1.35 inches) of section t kettle headspace. That is why it's important to carefully calibrate your kettle in section b.

VIK is the amount after the grain is pulled.

So, if you find that your pot measures 7 gallons or there abouts, not 5 1/4 gallons, you will be able to achieve a full volume mash and no additional water would be used.

If however the pot is 5 1/4 gallons (very bad manufacturing/marketing label :argh: ), then you should hold back 3 L of water (as water added before the boil),,, if you do this all the numbers change in sections k, s, and t. So now, this would be called a BIAB variation, with dilutions. Just add this water after you pull and squeeze the bag. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT: - You now must start with the SWN !!!

Get back with us if you find your pot measures differently, and we will go over the volumes thing again, if needed.

:peace:
MS
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 25 Oct 2013, 08:00, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #15 made 12 years ago
by Weisseguy
MS brew day is tomorrow. Buy i have few qustions about the recipe.There are a few discrepancies between the downloaded recipe and the one posted here. here are some of my concerns.
1. How can i No-chill without a cube,how will my beer be effected if i do chill after boil?
2. special instruction say to add "crystal". Is that another word for yeast nutrient? when do i add nutrient?

3. finally do i add 1/2 whirfloc with nutrient during the mash out temps, or 5 minutes before the end of the boil.
4. What about dry hopping?
Thanks

Post #16 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Weisse, just in case MS doesn't see your post before you brew, here are some quick answers...

1. You could leave the beer in your kettle overnight with the lid on and then once it reaches pitching temp the next day, pitch your yeast. If you decide to chill instead, say in your laundry tub or kitchen sink than just delay chilling for 40 minutes. (MS would probably tell you that you can do less.)

2. Crystal would be referring to the grain 'Great Western C 15', which means Cryatl Malt - 15 SRM sold by the Great Western Malting Company. What he is saying is that instead of putting the crystal grain in a the beginning of the mash, put it in after 90 minutes when you start to raise your mash temp to 77 C (170.6 F). Pull the bag 15 minutes after you put the crystal grain in.

3. Add whirfloc 5 minutes before the boil ends. All-grain beers do not need yeast nutrient.

4. He doesn't have dry hopping in the recipe so you probably don't need it however...

You mentioned discrepancies. Maybe post the discrepancies you have found so MS can answer you on this straight away.

:luck: Weisse,
PP
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Post #17 made 12 years ago
by Weisseguy
thanks PP
i wish i had asked these qustions sooner. I would have had the grains seperated when i bought them. also I had never considered the No chill method ( really never heard of it) and really dont know allot about it. Could you explain this way to me. I suppose this method works best for this recipe.
Do i still aerate the wort? when?

Post #18 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
It's not a problem mashing the crystal at the same time as the other grains so don't be worried at all. Leaving specialty grain like crystal and dark grains until mash out can, paradoxically, make them more pronounced but this is something you can play around with down the track. Don't give it a second thought today.

I thought there was an official post here on chilling and no chilling but there isn't! Basically you can think of three chilling methods - fast, slow and no chill for want of better words.

Fast Chill - The wort is actively cooled either in the kettle or during it's transfer from the kettle to the fermentor. Immersion, counter-flow or plate chillers and water are used to do this.

Slow Chill - The wort is left in the kettle to slowly chill to ambient tempoeartue. No equipment is needed. The wort is transferred to the fermentor when it reaches pitching temperature and then is pitched.

No Chill - This is another passive chilling method however, the wort is removed from the kettle almost immediately after the boil ends into a food-grade, high temperature plastic container commonly called a 'cube'. The wort can then be left forever a year before pitching.

Asking which method is best is probaly not the right question to be asking to be asking. Some styles might do better with chilling and others not. Some people have noticed a vegetative flavour on some no-chilled beers. I do both methods and haven't had anything major jump out at me yet. See one test we did here. There's be other links buried away on the site somewhere as well I think.

The real question is more to think how you will handle your hops to suit the chilling method you are using. We've had a bit of a look at that here but I don't think it is something you have to get hung up on. It also depends on the beer style as well.

With this brew (and all of them really), don't get too caught up in these areas. In that first link I gave above, none of us could tell the difference between the chilled and no-chilled beer.) If you want to pitch the yeast on the same day then you will need to actively chill. Just wait the 40 minutes before doing so. Why? Only because that is what MS has suggested and he has brewed the beer.

As for aeration, this is only done just before you pitch the yeast. At all other times, especially when the wort is hot, try to avoid agitating it which unnecessarily exposes it to oxygen. Oxygen is only wanted at the beginning of fermentation.

:luck:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 23 Nov 2013, 10:20, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #19 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
For some real life experimentation. Listen to this! :thumbs:

July 5, 2012 - No Chill Experiment
Home brewers Bob Stempski and Noam Shalev compare beers brewed with traditional chilling techniques with no-chill batches.
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?p ... radio-2012


Streaming mp3
http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/9/a/0/9a0f3ff ... 20e4f185d5
Last edited by BobBrews on 23 Nov 2013, 20:58, edited 2 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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Post #20 made 12 years ago
by Weisseguy
PP, Bob thanks for the replies. esp. the podcasts. The brew day went smooth until the end of my boil. I decided to chill immediately after boil since I wasn't prepared to try no chill. I had to change the last hop addition from zero to 15 minutes. The hops were .8 oz of perl. I failed to plan out this last hop addition so I kinda winged it. That's what I get for not asking some simple questions. Oh well, Can't wait to taste it anyways.

Post #21 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
Weisseguy,

I am sure your brew was a success. "Winging it" is my favorite style of brewing. Maybe not by choice but by actions?
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #23 made 12 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Sorry WG, I was on a staycation and wasn't on the computer much.

Please keep us posted on the results and comments about your beer. I bet it will be great :drink:

:peace:
MS
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Post #24 made 11 years ago
by Weisseguy
RESULTS:
A: golden reddish color, massive head, lots of lacing
S: sweet, floral, esters, slight bubble gum
T: malt, bread,
M: full body, sticky,
O: great beer, this beer was better than dead guy.

Additional notes: I dry hopped twice. Also I doubled the Munich and caramel malts, not on purpose though it turned out great probably added to the ABV and stickiness.

Thanks allot to the BIAB EXPERTS here on this site for helping me with this recipee.

Post #25 made 11 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
I'm glad to get your follow-up results. I like a malty low hopped beer, that is what sold me in 2006, was the Dead Guy, into this wonderful hobby.

:peace:
MS
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