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Build a BIAB-Bag for 100liter (26 gallon) Batches

Post #1 made 12 years ago
by Advanced
Hi guys,
Lets say hello with my first posts. Im from germany and brew beer since 1 1/2 years now. My english isnt the best, but i hope everybody can understand me :luck: :thumbs:

At first lets come to my problem. In a german forum there was a action with high volume pots for low price..Here is a Picture from my friend, but i buy the same pot.
Image
So this 26 gallon-pot is good enough to brew big batches in the garden. I found out, that biab-method is an easy way to brew in small time!

But there is a high weight for the BIAB-Bag so i want to discuss how i construct this bag on my own.
Often i read that i need Voile Material. To reinforce the construction i want to use belt-material like this:
http://www.baender24.de/gurtband/pp-gur" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 0m-rollen/
So i can sewing this full around the bag to get a strong and powerful construction.

What do you think about my project? Is it possible for 26 gallon batches? What tipps you have for me?

Best regards,
Fabian :blush:
Last edited by Advanced on 07 Jul 2013, 22:19, edited 2 times in total.
Check my Blogs for pictures and videos. Sorry but actually just in german language.
www.freubreu.wordpress.com

Post #2 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
Fabian,
26 gallon batches
A gallon of water weighs 8.34 lbs. or (3.78 Kilos) with the absorption of water weight into 26 pounds of grain I doubt you could lift it? Maybe something is wrong? Maybe I am reading your post wrong. Help me understand!

Look at the bottom of this page about the bag!

http://www.stempski.com/biab.php
Last edited by BobBrews on 07 Jul 2013, 22:33, edited 2 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #3 made 12 years ago
by Advanced
Hey guy,
If i want to brew 100liter beer with 17,5°P i need around about 33.5Kg malts (33.5 kg = 73.7 lbs).. with the absorption of water there is a weight to 44.5 kg = 97.9 lbs. But i want to build a lift-system to lift it up. But the BIAB-Bag have to be strong enough to handle this heaviness.
Check my Blogs for pictures and videos. Sorry but actually just in german language.
www.freubreu.wordpress.com

Post #4 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
Advanced,

BIAB is the best brewing method. Fast and easy. Minimal equipment and economical. But the focus of BIAB is not huge amounts of grain. How would you stir that properly? The grain will take to long to mash. Some of the grain will be mashed and some not. If you put a bag of grain that large in the water the temperature will drop and throw off your temperatures. The bag may rip unless you use two layers and support it? I would advise you start with a normal batch first.

Maybe split the batches and mix the two wort's together? I have done a batch that way and it was only 26 pounds?

Good luck my friend???
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #5 made 12 years ago
by Advanced
Well thanks for your tipps and help Bob.
I cant see the problems you imagine. The amount of grains come with high amount of water. So that is the same like with smaller batches. So i dont think, that is a problem to stir that well to get a uniform temperature distribution. The drop down of temperature can be calculated with some formula. The drop down isnt higher then in small batches.. because you got also a higher volume of hot water. Its no problem for me to get the right mash-in-temperature to get my final temperature after mashing in.

So the central problem is to get a good construction. Your option with double layer is not a bad idea, then full support with this "glove-band" maybe give enough strenght.?

Thanks for your support, if my project works i will show u a lot of pictures :D
Check my Blogs for pictures and videos. Sorry but actually just in german language.
www.freubreu.wordpress.com

Post #6 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
I will be looking forward to your pictures and notes on how it goes. Good luck and be careful to write everything down. Don't trust your memory!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #8 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Welcome to the forum Advanced :peace:. Your English is going really well :salute:.

I have to get to work but here are some pictures for you. The first is from an Aussie guy who does 15 kg batches.
BIAB 15 kg Bag.jpg
The second pic is from some Mexicans I think, doing 20kg of grain :o.
MexcianBIAB.jpg
The ideal would be to have a nice stainless basket to hold the bag but that would be expensive. Another alternative might be a blend of some webbing and maybe some stainless steel hoops to keep the webbing shape right - like Contrarian has mentioned.

BIAB retains less liquor than traditional, about 0.6 litres per kg, so the weight you will be looking to lift would be about 50 kgs assuming you will lift the bag gradually.

Should be fun :)
PP

P.S. It's interesting to see that the 200 L (50 gallon) Braumeister just uses a hand winch to lift their basket :interesting:.
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 08 Jul 2013, 07:07, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #9 made 12 years ago
by Advanced
Hello Together, Hello PistolPatch,
thanks for the pictures and the introduction.
The first austrian Construction looks realy strong and perfect. The stainless basket would be also a good idea, but i just dont get the money to buy at first a perfect construction like the 200L Braumeister.

BUT... my idea become true.. i found a german shop who can sell two different filtrate fabric´s. I hope i get good prices. I will use that strong fabric and sew it with extra strong thread and polyesther-belts which can hold 400KG!

The next step is to check the dimensions i need. I found this link:
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=37
Here is the right calculation for my pot:
Diameter 60cm, Height 64cm.
TOP = (2* 3,1416 * 60cm * 0,5 * 0,5) * 1,15 =108,3852cm
Height = 64cm * 1,15 + 2,5cm = 76,1cm
Base = 60cm*0.85 = 51cm

How i have to cut the material? Do I have to do it like discribed in the given instruction (other thread)
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2052

Thanks for ur help!
Best regards,
Fabian
Check my Blogs for pictures and videos. Sorry but actually just in german language.
www.freubreu.wordpress.com

Post #10 made 12 years ago
by hashie
Hello Advanced and welcome.

I think I understand what you are saying and don't foresee any problems other than draining a double thickness bag. If you use the right material it wont be a problem.

As for the shape or method of cutting the material, I fold the material in 1/2 and then cut it into the shape of an elongated capital D, ensuring that the bag is big enough to fit your kettle into the bag. In other words, the diameter of the bag needs to be greater than the outer diameter of your kettle and the height of your bag needs to be greater than the external height of your kettle. Other than that it's easy.
Last edited by hashie on 11 Jul 2013, 07:49, edited 2 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #11 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
hashie, how much fun are threads like this? :thumbs: :party: :champ:. You probably missed the "instructions for sewing a truncated cone bag" thread. I have only skimmed it but it looked amazing...

Advanced, at least a few guys have followed the instructions in the truncated cone thread. I'm thinking that maybe you should post your measurements there and ask them to check your numbers for you. They will have studied the thread well and it is still probably fresh in their minds.

Regarding the two fabrics of different porosity, what is your plan there? Are you going to have the webbing (straps) and then a coarse/open-weave material and then a fine-woven material???

I think one 'bag' (with a porosity of 30 threads per centimetre) sewn as a truncated cone would be the first thing. The second thing, would be a 'basket' made out of webbing. I would keep the two things separate. In other words, don't stitch them together. More strapping would be needed at the bottom than the top as that is where all the grain will be grouping.

Can't wait to see pics of what you come up with.

:party:
Last edited by PistolPatch on 11 Jul 2013, 18:22, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #12 made 12 years ago
by Advanced
Hey guys, All fine? I finish today my BIAB-BAG! My girlfriend helps me very well!
So lets show some pictures:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Well, the sizes fits and the fabric ist very strong material! I just hope now, that there rains enough of wort out! I hope the material does not clog in the brewing process!

What do you think about the bag?
Last edited by Advanced on 17 Jul 2013, 20:14, edited 2 times in total.
Check my Blogs for pictures and videos. Sorry but actually just in german language.
www.freubreu.wordpress.com

Post #13 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Advanced, your post is proof-positive that male BIAB brewers have the best-looking girlfriends :). I am not too sure yet what female BIAB brewers end up with though :dunno: :interesting: :smoke:.

Your bag porosity is hard to tell from the pictures. The only real way to tell how it will work out is if you have a strong magnifying glass and can count how many threads there are per centimeter. If it is above 40 threads per centimeter, you are heading into very fine territory and it might cause you problems.

If you are above 40 threads per cm by a lot, you can use this bag as a hop sock and sew another bag for your BIAB 'grain bag'. In your situation, having two bags, one as a grain bag and one as a hop sock is probably a good idea anyway.

I would throw a bit of German into the above post but my German mates here have only taught me the swear words so far :).

PP
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Post #14 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
Advanced,

I use standard (shear drapery, Swiss voil?) material. I use two layers of it and the bag drains instantly. No worries! I have no idea how many threads per centimeter that would be because I would have to count them and I am not a math wizard! Anything over ten gives me trouble. "Don't worry your brain, the bag will drain"!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #15 made 12 years ago
by Advanced
Hey Pistol, Hey Bob! You both are actually my best support :D @Pistol, thanks by my girlfriend ;)
Now i check the fit of my bag... its awesome, very well!
The tutorial "instructions for sewing a truncated cone bag" was very helpfull.
Image
Image
Maybe my fabric is range the realy fine territory.. but well here is a picture with macro-focus:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... G_2366.JPG
I also get a german data-sheet to the fabric since this is made for filter-aplications.
Image
Well what problems can happen? The worst case...that the wort isnt coming out.. but there are more problems with a fine mash? If the bag will drain there is all fine yes? I dont get tannin-problems i guess ;)

But maybe Bob says it right "Don't worry your brain, the bag will drain"!
I start to test that bag soon with a batch of 20-28 Gallons! That we will see what happen.

Best regards,
Fabian
Last edited by Advanced on 17 Jul 2013, 23:32, edited 2 times in total.
Check my Blogs for pictures and videos. Sorry but actually just in german language.
www.freubreu.wordpress.com

Post #17 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
Advanced,

Let us know how your doing? We are all excited to hear how it went? Good luck!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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