I am seeing a big differnce in my batches depening on where i bottle or keg the beer. My beer always turn out carbonated but not always with head retention!
I have been brewing for just a short while since Dec 2012 (I have done about 18 batches in that time). I have jumped straight into all grain BIAB single vessel process as my norm . I have been choosing to do a small batch out of the grains from my 5gl batch since I am not sarging. Doing a Second Running give me a session beer that I can play with - different hops or yeasts.
I have found with my batches I bottle turn out to have very good head retention where the same batch the beer that is kegged does not reach the same level of head retention! If bottling was not so labor intensive I would do more of it based on my results to date.
So I am curious if anyone else has seen similiar results?
I know Carapils should help with head retention but I am curious if anyone has seem this with their brewing.
Post #2 made 12 years ago
Sorry DrummoRC - I have never kegged so can't help, but seems like a good question to ask though. I look forward to see what people think.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #3 made 12 years ago
Sounds like you got bottling down to a science.
You can use the BIABacus by filling out Sections H and Q. Really, this is a question about 'volumes of CO2 ', being the same both in the bottle and keg (with the same batch of beer).
If you are carbonating in a keg with CO2 head pressure, it might take 2 weeks to absorb it, if going strictly by a CO2 chart. You can quicking carb in a keg in about 2 days at about 30 psi AND shake and/or roll the keg back and forth and often as you can at a serving temperature. CO2 absorbs quicker at low temps.
You can use the BIABacus by filling out Sections H and Q. Really, this is a question about 'volumes of CO2 ', being the same both in the bottle and keg (with the same batch of beer).
If you are carbonating in a keg with CO2 head pressure, it might take 2 weeks to absorb it, if going strictly by a CO2 chart. You can quicking carb in a keg in about 2 days at about 30 psi AND shake and/or roll the keg back and forth and often as you can at a serving temperature. CO2 absorbs quicker at low temps.
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Post #4 made 12 years ago
Good point joshua!
I use dawn also for cleaning kegs. I follow that up with a no rinse iodine solution, like Iodophor.
I use dawn also for cleaning kegs. I follow that up with a no rinse iodine solution, like Iodophor.
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Bottle verses Keg conditioning - head retention
Post #5 made 12 years ago
Force carbonated head is generally not as fine and creamy as yeast carbonation but that should stop head retention too much.
Cleaning process/chemicals (like dish liquid) are usually biggest culprits for head loss.
5-10% wheat in your grist will do a lot more for head than Carapils in my experience, although Carapils does give better mouthfeel/body.
Good luck!
Cleaning process/chemicals (like dish liquid) are usually biggest culprits for head loss.
5-10% wheat in your grist will do a lot more for head than Carapils in my experience, although Carapils does give better mouthfeel/body.
Good luck!
Post #6 made 12 years ago
I clean my kegs with PBW and bottles with bleach water and a brush. I think my problem has been the lack of Carapils. The last two-three batches have not had either enough of any carapils added to the recipes. Thanks for the feed back.
I will shake this keg around "under pressure" - for effect I will hang a single light bulb from the ceiling while I do it! Yeah that's the ticket!
I will shake this keg around "under pressure" - for effect I will hang a single light bulb from the ceiling while I do it! Yeah that's the ticket!
Post #7 made 12 years ago
I always throw a bit a carapills or wheat in everything I brew (@ 8 ounces per 5 gallon batch) for the purpose of head retention but I must say the best head I get (heh heh) is always from kegs that have been force carbed at serving presure over the course of a week or two (12psi @ 40F). YMMV
---Todd
---Todd
Last edited by thughes on 27 Jul 2013, 07:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #8 made 12 years ago
For what it's worth, I have read in more than once place that shaking a keg under pressure will cause long-chain proteins (or something to that effect) to breakdown and cause a loss of head retention.DrummoRC wrote:I will shake this keg around "under pressure" - for effect I will hang a single light bulb from the ceiling while I do it! Yeah that's the ticket!
Last edited by thughes on 27 Jul 2013, 07:42, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #9 made 12 years ago
Wow! What an interesting question!
I think one thing we have missed, or maybe not explored more fully, is that in the original question, Drummo was saying there was a difference between 'carbonation' and 'head retention' in his kegged and bottled beer. Carbonation and head retention are two different/unrelated things - theoretically.
The only thing I can offer here now, apart from the above, is that kegged [EDIT: I mean force-carbonated kegs] and bottled beer have an immediate ingredient discrepancy. A kegged beer has no sort of priming sugar added. Maybe the priming sugar used has an effect on head retention? Who knows?
Great thread Drummo in the fact that you have observed a difference - that is really impressive. I suspect that finding the real answer might take a lot more experimentation though. So much is affected by priming sugar that you won't see written anywhere. I only know this because of one beer I tasted that had been primed with two different priming sugars. The resulting beers were about 20-25% different.
That is pretty incredible right?
PP
I think one thing we have missed, or maybe not explored more fully, is that in the original question, Drummo was saying there was a difference between 'carbonation' and 'head retention' in his kegged and bottled beer. Carbonation and head retention are two different/unrelated things - theoretically.
The only thing I can offer here now, apart from the above, is that kegged [EDIT: I mean force-carbonated kegs] and bottled beer have an immediate ingredient discrepancy. A kegged beer has no sort of priming sugar added. Maybe the priming sugar used has an effect on head retention? Who knows?
Great thread Drummo in the fact that you have observed a difference - that is really impressive. I suspect that finding the real answer might take a lot more experimentation though. So much is affected by priming sugar that you won't see written anywhere. I only know this because of one beer I tasted that had been primed with two different priming sugars. The resulting beers were about 20-25% different.
That is pretty incredible right?
PP
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Post #10 made 12 years ago
Au contraire PP! You, more than anybody, should know better than to make a blanket statement like that. 
Some folks do indeed prime their kegs with sugar and allow them to carb naturally.
Some folks do indeed prime their kegs with sugar and allow them to carb naturally.
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Post #11 made 12 years ago
What's my blanket statement Todd? I'm drunk now and can't see it . Whatever I have done it must be a typo... As you say, I, more than anyone, don't like writing crap/blanket statements.
I'll leave you to explain whatever you found more fully and apologies in advance for anything I have written badly.
PP
. Whatever I have done it must be a typo... As you say, I, more than anyone, don't like writing crap/blanket statements.I'll leave you to explain whatever you found more fully and apologies in advance for anything I have written badly.
PP
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Post #12 made 12 years ago
.PistolPatch wrote: A kegged beer has no sort of priming sugar added
I think even the BIABacus allows you to calculate priming sugar required for kegged & bottled beers!
BTW - Hi Todd, you been on sabbatical or something?
Last edited by mally on 27 Jul 2013, 22:04, edited 2 times in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
-
Post #13 made 12 years ago
Ah, you got me! I have added an edit to the post now saying that I mean force-carbonated kegs 
.
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Post #14 made 12 years ago
I figured you'd catch it after you sobered up a bit there Patch!
Mally.....I haven't been on sabbatical so much as distracted by other things as of late. Nice to know my absence was noticed.
---Todd
Mally.....I haven't been on sabbatical so much as distracted by other things as of late. Nice to know my absence was noticed.
---Todd
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Bottle verses Keg conditioning - head retention
Post #15 made 12 years ago
Another thing that I just noticed, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but isnt the OP is doing parti-gyle? Carbonation shouldn't be different, but head retention qualities might be very different between 1st & 2nd runnings? Also if I have read the parti-gyle right, it it always the same bottle/keg strategy ie 1st runnings batch always the bottled one?
