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High Alpha Acid hopping.

Post #1 made 13 years ago
by DanIAm
Forgive me if it's already discussed somewhere here, I searched and didn't see anything.

When bittering, taking for example a Czech pilsener, any reason to persist with lower A/A - e.g. Saaz instead of heaps less of a higher A/A such as Magnum?


Money's too tight to mention as the song says, so just looking at my cost savings. If there is a good reason not to load up on high A/A hops for bittering, then I'd pay the extra.


Is there really any flavour/aroma left when boiled for an hour? For that matter, can you degrade the bitterness by boiling too long? (e.g. denature the chemicals or different rate of evaporation etc) or conversely have unintended issues (aside from less bitterness) by not boiling for long enough?

Oh yeah, why are mountains? And how come girraffes? :argh:

Post #2 made 13 years ago
by Lylo
Many brewers are moving toward using a high AA hop and not worrying to much about what type,as theoretically? there is no flavour or aroma added in a long boil addition anyway.I amy starting to work that way myself using Magnum.
AWOL

Post #3 made 13 years ago
by thughes
Got a pound of Magnum myself for use as a replacement for the bittering hops in all my recipes, now I just have to work up the nerve to take a chance on using them. :dunno:

---Todd
WWBBD?
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Post #4 made 13 years ago
by joshua
Good Day, If you FirstWortHop with High Alfa-acid hops, you will save Big Money.
When I used Cascade, Just for bittering I used 1oz/29gr, with Galena I get similar bitternes at 0.25/7Gr.

There is a flavor Contribution With High Alpha acid hops, and FWH, so be careful.

Check this chart, http://orionhomebrewing.blogspot.com/20 ... chart.html
it shows the flavors you will get, I found Some hop flavors don't work well with others.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #5 made 13 years ago
by Lylo
I only FWH my flavour and aroma hops.I still use a 60 minute bittering addition in which I feel I can use "whatever" to achieve my AA bittering objective.
AWOL

Post #6 made 13 years ago
by joshua
Good Day Lylo, If you FWH the SUPER High Alpha acid(HAA) hops, you will get a good smooth bitternes Plus a good amount of that hops flavor.
So you could find a flovor hop that falls into the HAA hop range and just go FWH and Aroma, and post boil hops, and Dry hops.......
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #7 made 13 years ago
by Lylo
It's just that FWH is sort of guess work and I like to get my IBU's close.Since most of the IBU's come from bittering I feel like this will get me closer to what I am aiming at.Just my convoluted way of thinking thru some things.
AWOL

Post #8 made 13 years ago
by joshua
Good Day, I found the High Alpha Acid hops, act just like Medium AA(7-10%) hops, the FWH "usage" works out as 90+ minute (time from mashout to end of boil, Plus 10 minutes whirlpool and No-chill). This means the maximum amount of Bitterness of near 98% gets into the beer. That will work in a program.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #9 made 13 years ago
by stux
I used To use northern brewer as a bittering hop in my German/czech beers, but recently have been using the more pure nobles.

I think there is a subtle flavour contribution from bittering additions, but you just need to be aware of it
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Post #10 made 13 years ago
by joshua
Good Day Stux, YES, there is a Flovor Component to ALL Bittering Hops, and a small but noticable Aroma too.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #11 made 13 years ago
by DanIAm
Thanks for all the quick replies.

I'm interested in that hop chart, but dubious at the same time. It probably would be better represented in a venn diagram as they have multiple characteristics - don't get me wrong, it is still useful to see their predominant character.


1. I would gather that bittering with high a/a, as the oils boil out the flavor it adds diminishes.
2. Using 1/3 less hops (e.g. magnum pellets at 14.1% vs 3.7% for saaz pellets) would only give a 1/3 flavor contribution that might be imparted in the bittering stage and I might need to boost the flavor hops a little at the flavoring stage? (i.e. unless that hop variety had a nasty chemical such as crushed ant in which case there'd be plenty of flavor to go around...)


I'm making a few presumptions, maybe the flavor doesn't stay predominantly in the oil, maybe the oil isn't as volatile as the water. etc.

My last brew I used Magnum for bittering my pilsener, it's not ready yet so the taste buds haven't had a chance to contribute to the discussion.

Post #12 made 13 years ago
by kostass
stux wrote: I think there is a subtle flavour contribution from bittering additions, but you just need to be aware of it
The more I brew the more I feel that this is true, for example bittering with a citrucy American hop is not the same
as bittering with an English kent hop. I might be wrong though :)
If this is true, most hops have a high AA cousin that you can substitute the bittering with it.
Last edited by kostass on 11 Apr 2012, 14:42, edited 3 times in total.
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