Hi, can someone tell me whats the advantage of firstly a 90 minute mash and secondly a 90 minute boil?
I understand the whole DMS/90 minute boil thing but I thought that only applied to lager/pilsener malts, other than that is it just adding unnecessary time to brew day?
Also, I dont know much about the science of mashing but it seems that a 60 minute mash is standard in the homebrewing world?
Are these BIAB specific or what?
Thanks
L
Post #2 made 13 years ago
Hi there Lars,
On this site, 90 minutes is recommended for the mash and boil as they are sensible and safe options.
The Mash
Conversion actually continues for a long time. On your next mash, take some readings at 30, 45, 60, 75 and 90 minutes. You'll see that your gravity continues to rise even after 60 minutes. (Do this test a few times if you can over a few brews. If you have refractometer, you could take more regular readings though you might find more individual discrepancies in the readings.)
So, increasing mash time, increases mash efficiency. It also has a slight effect on attenuation. Your wort will ferment down to a slightly lower gravity. It is not a major issue though and you can still be comfortable doing a 60 minute mash,
The Boil
Having a 90 minute boil time as compared to 60 minutes, does the following things...
A longer boil time means you need more water to start with to compensate for increased evaporation. This means you are mashing the grain in more water and can rinse it better. In other words, your efficiency will rise. On most equipment, the increase in efficiency is very small - only around 1% so this is not a significant advantage.
A longer boil reduces the risk of a cloudy wort. Poor quality grain or water will sometimes produce hazy beer on a 60 minute boil but not on a 90 minute boil. This is rare but it can happen.
So, 90 minutes is safer than 60 minutes for mash and boil but using 60 minutes is really not a najor risk or drama. Relax, don't worry etc
.
PP
On this site, 90 minutes is recommended for the mash and boil as they are sensible and safe options.
The Mash
Conversion actually continues for a long time. On your next mash, take some readings at 30, 45, 60, 75 and 90 minutes. You'll see that your gravity continues to rise even after 60 minutes. (Do this test a few times if you can over a few brews. If you have refractometer, you could take more regular readings though you might find more individual discrepancies in the readings.)
So, increasing mash time, increases mash efficiency. It also has a slight effect on attenuation. Your wort will ferment down to a slightly lower gravity. It is not a major issue though and you can still be comfortable doing a 60 minute mash,
The Boil
Having a 90 minute boil time as compared to 60 minutes, does the following things...
A longer boil time means you need more water to start with to compensate for increased evaporation. This means you are mashing the grain in more water and can rinse it better. In other words, your efficiency will rise. On most equipment, the increase in efficiency is very small - only around 1% so this is not a significant advantage.
A longer boil reduces the risk of a cloudy wort. Poor quality grain or water will sometimes produce hazy beer on a 60 minute boil but not on a 90 minute boil. This is rare but it can happen.
So, 90 minutes is safer than 60 minutes for mash and boil but using 60 minutes is really not a najor risk or drama. Relax, don't worry etc
.PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 06 Feb 2012, 08:59, edited 4 times in total.
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Post #3 made 13 years ago
Good Day, the 90 minute mash is a maximun time for enzymes to work. Tests have shown Beta Amalese work is slow.
The 90-120 is used for darking the beer due to Mailard reactions that change malt flavors.
So from what I know a long mash is needed if the mash temperature is high (67C+) for a fuller body, and a long boils is needed for dark beers.
I use a 72 minute mash for Porters and Stouts and it works well, a 60 minute boil works well also.
The 90-120 is used for darking the beer due to Mailard reactions that change malt flavors.
So from what I know a long mash is needed if the mash temperature is high (67C+) for a fuller body, and a long boils is needed for dark beers.
I use a 72 minute mash for Porters and Stouts and it works well, a 60 minute boil works well also.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #4 made 13 years ago
Last edited by thughes on 06 Feb 2012, 09:51, edited 4 times in total.
WWBBD?
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Post #5 made 13 years ago
Thanks guys, I'll see how I'm fixed for time and will try both over a few brews, time permitting. I've one question about the 90minute boil, the brewer from wychwood said(in his brewing network interview) that they add their first hop addition after mash out at about 80C. I read a little bit about this and its claimed that it provides a less harsh bitterness(I think). Obviously this couldnt be done with a 90 minute boil because according to the article posted above by thughes boiling hops for more that 60mins introduces unpleasant flavours...
Thanks
L
Thanks
L
Post #6 made 13 years ago
Good Gay Lars, LOOK for FWH, First wort Hopping, Many people like it, some think it Sucks(not so good)
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #7 made 13 years ago
Lars, I take everything with a grain of salt (the Aussies taught me that!). Read a lot but don't take anything as Gospel, try stuff for yourself. I've learned to disregard that statement about "unpleasant flavors" caused by boiling hops more than 60 minutes. Actually, with a few exceptions, I have adopted the method of moving all the 60 minute hops to FWH (regardless of boil time) and all of the additional hops are tossed into the cube when I drain the brew kettle. So far, so good!Lars wrote:Thanks guys, I'll see how I'm fixed for time and will try both over a few brews, time permitting. I've one question about the 90minute boil, the brewer from wychwood said(in his brewing network interview) that they add their first hop addition after mash out at about 80C. I read a little bit about this and its claimed that it provides a less harsh bitterness(I think). Obviously this couldnt be done with a 90 minute boil because according to the article posted above by thughes boiling hops for more that 60mins introduces unpleasant flavours...
Thanks
L
Last edited by thughes on 06 Feb 2012, 21:25, edited 4 times in total.
WWBBD?
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Post #8 made 13 years ago
thughes wrote:
Lars, I take everything with a grain of salt (the Aussies taught me that!). Read a lot but don't take anything as Gospel, try stuff for yourself. I've learned to disregard that statement about "unpleasant flavors" caused by boiling hops more than 60 minutes. Actually, with a few exceptions, I have adopted the method of moving all the 60 minute hops to FWH (regardless of boil time) and all of the additional hops are tossed into the cube when I drain the brew kettle. So far, so good!
By it's method BIAB is breaking the rules on brewing. thughes, I applaud you for being a rule breaking heretic
Last edited by hashie on 07 Feb 2012, 05:42, edited 4 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #9 made 13 years ago
Good Day, Rules are like a box, or an envelope, as so to speak. Many can live in a box, some have to push its sides..(Author Unknown)
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #10 made 13 years ago
Another point with the 90 minute mash in BIAB. With a batch sparge you actually have a much longer runoff period. If you included that time as part of the mash you might be closer to a 90 minute mash. With biab you pull the bag and start the boil immediately. It makes sense that sacharification is going to be halted sooner
I do a 90 minute mash including mashout
I do a 90 minute mash including mashout
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
