I have now done 3 BIAB brews after many years of K and K. So far, I love the new method.
Can someone please fill me in on how to whirlpool the wort prior to adding to fermenter?
How long, what temperature, etc, etc??
I am trying to get better clarity of my brews, and thought that this and Iris Moss would be a good place to start.
Cheers
Post #2 made 13 years ago
Hi Swampy
Whirlpooling is a method of trub management. Basically once cooled you stir your wort in the boiler in the same direction increasing the speed of your stir so that a vortex is created by the spinning wort. This has the effect of causing the solids to form a cone in the center of the kettle. You then leave it for about 20min to settle and stop spinning and syphon from the side. The theory is that the majority of the trub is left behind piled up in the center of your kettle. With careful syphoning you can draw off almost all clear wort.
I'm not sure if wirlpooling will result in better clarity in your finished beer although the addition of irish moss will.
Some guys are fanatical about trub getting into there FV some don't seem to be bothered. I used to whirlpool but struggled with the amount of wort left in the trub so I made a syphon like this Here.
Whirlpooling is a method of trub management. Basically once cooled you stir your wort in the boiler in the same direction increasing the speed of your stir so that a vortex is created by the spinning wort. This has the effect of causing the solids to form a cone in the center of the kettle. You then leave it for about 20min to settle and stop spinning and syphon from the side. The theory is that the majority of the trub is left behind piled up in the center of your kettle. With careful syphoning you can draw off almost all clear wort.
I'm not sure if wirlpooling will result in better clarity in your finished beer although the addition of irish moss will.
Some guys are fanatical about trub getting into there FV some don't seem to be bothered. I used to whirlpool but struggled with the amount of wort left in the trub so I made a syphon like this Here.
Last edited by Yeasty on 18 Jan 2012, 20:23, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #3 made 13 years ago
Swampy,
I never really received good results by whirlpooling. I never thought it was worth it (for me). I now (no chill) anyway so it doesn't matter to me. Clarity problems results from residual proteins strings if I remember right? People seem to think lack of clarity is from "dirty" beer from trube or break material. Somewhere here and other resources is loads of information on beer clarity. Good hunting!
I never really received good results by whirlpooling. I never thought it was worth it (for me). I now (no chill) anyway so it doesn't matter to me. Clarity problems results from residual proteins strings if I remember right? People seem to think lack of clarity is from "dirty" beer from trube or break material. Somewhere here and other resources is loads of information on beer clarity. Good hunting!
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Post #4 made 13 years ago
Swampy
I don't know whether whirlpooling will clear your beer or not but I can tell you that I whirlpool very soon after the boil (within 10 min or so) and I then transfer to the no chill cube. I've used a 28cm pot prior to upgrading to a 45cm pot. I my limited experience I'd say that the whirlpool works much better in a bigger diameter pot. In the end I did not bother whirlpooling with the small pot.
I don't know whether whirlpooling will clear your beer or not but I can tell you that I whirlpool very soon after the boil (within 10 min or so) and I then transfer to the no chill cube. I've used a 28cm pot prior to upgrading to a 45cm pot. I my limited experience I'd say that the whirlpool works much better in a bigger diameter pot. In the end I did not bother whirlpooling with the small pot.
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Post #5 made 13 years ago
Good Day, whirlpooling is good if your in a hurry. I no-chill and can Decant the wort off the trub with careful pouring. I found the trub has dropped out in 45-60 minutes post boil.
If you want VERY clear beer into the bottle or Keg, cold crash the beer at 5C/38F for one week/10days at the end of fermentation. It removes most of the yeast, ALL cold chill proteins, and makes the trub very solid.
I add the sugar to the cold beer and when the beer warms to 23C/72f, it cabonates very nicely.
If you want VERY clear beer into the bottle or Keg, cold crash the beer at 5C/38F for one week/10days at the end of fermentation. It removes most of the yeast, ALL cold chill proteins, and makes the trub very solid.
I add the sugar to the cold beer and when the beer warms to 23C/72f, it cabonates very nicely.
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Post #6 made 13 years ago
In my limited experience if you leave the boiler for 20 minutes after flaemout before whirlpooling it works better than say 10 minutes. From my understanding this is due to thermal currents still moving the trub around for a while after flamout.
Post #7 made 13 years ago
Good Day Deebo, You are correct, until the wort cools evenly at any temperature, the thermal covection current will move up in the center and down on the cooler kettle wall, really meesing up a wirlpool.
The wirlpool will form nicely if you stir clockwise in the Northern Hemispere, The oppisite direction of a drain. That way the thermal lift in the center of the kettle helps the trub pile up in the middle as the force of the spin moves the trub inward.
The wirlpool will form nicely if you stir clockwise in the Northern Hemispere, The oppisite direction of a drain. That way the thermal lift in the center of the kettle helps the trub pile up in the middle as the force of the spin moves the trub inward.
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Post #8 made 13 years ago
Oh no... I've been stirring clockwise in the southern hemisphere!!!!
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
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Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #9 made 13 years ago
You've got me worried now Josh, what would happen if we all brewed on the same day and the northern guys all stirred clockwise and the southern guys stirred counter clockwise, would the world stop spinningjoshua wrote:The wirlpool will form nicely if you stir clockwise in the Northern Hemispere, The oppisite direction of a drain. That way the thermal lift in the center of the kettle helps the trub pile up in the middle as the force of the spin moves the trub inward.
[ Post details ]
Last edited by Yeasty on 19 Jan 2012, 18:18, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #10 made 13 years ago
. Just in case anyone is gettin hung up on the clockwise and anti-clockwise business, the 'Coriolis effect' is non-existent on a small scale. It's actually not true that bath or basin water drains in the opposite direction in the different hemispheres.As Yeasty said, whirlpooling can help in some set-ups with reducing the amount of trub getting into the fermentor. As others have pointed out, this does not necessarily mean clearer beer. Mind you, it will make getting clearer beer later in the process easier.
One thing with whirlpooling that I didn't realise until recently is that you need to do a slow whirlpool. In other words, use a large (very large) spoon and rotate it on the outside of the kettle until the whole mass of wort is moving (catches up). I made the mistake of thinking faster is better and attached my potato masher to a drill to get things moving. This will make a whirlpool but not the sort you want!!!! It does bugger all
.You also asked about temperature. A lot of people do it hot but it works at cold temps as well.
Cheers,
PP
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Post #11 made 13 years ago
Good Day Hashie, Many "BIG" 3V Brewers in may part of the world, tell me "left hand" clockwise makes a good cenetred pile of trub, "Right Hand' DOESN'T.
I understand the Coriolis effect is too small to make my kettle spin.
But,I tryed both. Maybe my arms worked better going clockwise......
I gave up whirlpoopling last year. I slow chill, and run all trub thru a sterilized cloth filter. I lose around .33Liter, and the wort has very little trub, I like easy!
I understand the Coriolis effect is too small to make my kettle spin.
But,I tryed both. Maybe my arms worked better going clockwise......
I gave up whirlpoopling last year. I slow chill, and run all trub thru a sterilized cloth filter. I lose around .33Liter, and the wort has very little trub, I like easy!
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #12 made 13 years ago
I think that is probably the real answer josh. I suspect left-handed people will find an anti-clockwise stir easier/more natural and therefore more effective. Myth busted I reckonjoshua wrote:Maybe my arms worked better going clockwise......
.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 19 Jan 2012, 21:03, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #13 made 13 years ago
Thanks guys for the interesting advice.
The Coriolis Effect - very interesting . Do we have some weather buffs here?....maybe some mariners???
I am the latter, I wonder - you guys in the northern hemisphere - fill a sink with water, then pull the plug out . Tell us which way the water drains - clockwise or anti-clockwise. It goes down clockwise in the south.
If you are lucky enough to live on the equator - well don't bother
now.........getting back to more important stuff. The whirlpooling - I am reluctant to play around with cold wort - I have an immersion chiller and it cools my 50 litre pot to pitching temp pretty quickly (20 mins). I try to get the yeast in as quick as because I worry that I may get some bacteria in there. Am i worrying too much - how stable is the wort once chilled?
The Coriolis Effect - very interesting . Do we have some weather buffs here?....maybe some mariners???
I am the latter, I wonder - you guys in the northern hemisphere - fill a sink with water, then pull the plug out . Tell us which way the water drains - clockwise or anti-clockwise. It goes down clockwise in the south.
If you are lucky enough to live on the equator - well don't bother
now.........getting back to more important stuff. The whirlpooling - I am reluctant to play around with cold wort - I have an immersion chiller and it cools my 50 litre pot to pitching temp pretty quickly (20 mins). I try to get the yeast in as quick as because I worry that I may get some bacteria in there. Am i worrying too much - how stable is the wort once chilled?
Post #14 made 13 years ago
I'll do this in the name os science,,but if I find out your taking the piss I won't be happyswampy wrote:you guys in the northern hemisphere - fill a sink with water, then pull the plug out
You may be worrying abit to much here swampy. I brew outside and syphon into my FV allowing the wort to spalsh about. Some guys pour there wort from one vessel into another and back again so as to aerate there wort. Bacteria are everywhere and you won't be able to stop any getting into your wort unless you were in a totally sterile lab. Its more important to get your yeast off to a good start so that they can out compete the other nasties.swampy wrote: I try to get the yeast in as quick as because I worry that I may get some bacteria in there. Am i worrying too much - how stable is the wort once chilled?
Yeasty
Last edited by Yeasty on 20 Jan 2012, 00:17, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #15 made 13 years ago
Good Day, Last night, I filled my bathroom sink a few times, let it drain, it went clockwise once, anti-clockckwise the next time, It looks like the angle the water enters the drain starts the swirl.
Pour from the left side, it goes clockwise. Pour from the right it goes anti-clockwise.
When I no-chill IN THE KETTLE, I let it sit until I can hold the kettle, About 120F/30C and toss in a couple Campden tablets. With the kettle closed but not sealed, The wort lasts at least 12 hours, then I Filter, airate, and pitch. 30 batches no problems.
Winpak users have sealed containers and pour the wort, while it is still HOT. That makes everything sterile and separates the Big pieces from the little stuff that settles out over time. ALL sealed up.
Wort is sterile down to 140F/60C, and lower than that, how you treat it, dirty hands, sneeze, drool, is most important. I have more trouble with the vinyl tubing I tranfer the cool wort with, than anything else.
Pour from the left side, it goes clockwise. Pour from the right it goes anti-clockwise.
When I no-chill IN THE KETTLE, I let it sit until I can hold the kettle, About 120F/30C and toss in a couple Campden tablets. With the kettle closed but not sealed, The wort lasts at least 12 hours, then I Filter, airate, and pitch. 30 batches no problems.
Winpak users have sealed containers and pour the wort, while it is still HOT. That makes everything sterile and separates the Big pieces from the little stuff that settles out over time. ALL sealed up.
Wort is sterile down to 140F/60C, and lower than that, how you treat it, dirty hands, sneeze, drool, is most important. I have more trouble with the vinyl tubing I tranfer the cool wort with, than anything else.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #16 made 13 years ago
I know this is a somewhat old thread, but being a meteorologist, I thought that I'd interject.swampy wrote:Thanks guys for the interesting advice.
The Coriolis Effect - very interesting . Do we have some weather buffs here?....maybe some mariners???
I am the latter, I wonder - you guys in the northern hemisphere - fill a sink with water, then pull the plug out . Tell us which way the water drains - clockwise or anti-clockwise. It goes down clockwise in the south.
If you are lucky enough to live on the equator - well don't bother
The Coriolis Effect is not strong enough to affect small scale, temporary rotations such as your whirlpool or drain. Any rotation tendencies in your drain are affected by the orientation of the pipes. In your whirlpool, clockwise/counter-clockwise doesn't mater unless your pot is scoured or dented enough to ultimately affect the efficiency of the rotation in one direction.
Last edited by WxBrewer on 03 Feb 2012, 02:39, edited 3 times in total.
Post #17 made 13 years ago
Good Day WxBrewer, You are Very Correct! Whirlpool is set by how you stir, and not the Earth.
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Post #18 made 13 years ago
I hope the content of this thread never reaches Kenya. There's a guy (probably many of them) on the Equator making a very decent living by showing tourists the Coriolis effect - first in the southern hemisphere and then in the north. Don't want to shatter their livelihoods 
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Post #19 made 13 years ago
For what it's worth I've adopted a new technique. My Blichmann Boilermaker has a tendency for the dip tube to clog easily. But because of the fear of breaking off my thermometer probe I never got a good whirlpool going with a spoon. So after I chill with a EC I got one of those wine degasing gizmos. It is two small paddles on a rod that you use a power drill to create a vortex. I get my break material in the center and also aerate the wort at the same time. (not recommended for no-chill). It has made a difference with my particular set-up. I use two towels soaked in Star-San draped over the top to keep wild nastys from getting sucked in. Maybe I'm just goofy but it seems to be a good move.
Post #20 made 13 years ago
Oh, I've never been able to do this. I've got a 33 cm diameter pot, I usually use irish moss too, but after the whirlpool all the sediments (proteins and pellet hops) are always still flat all over the bottom... And I have to leave a lot of trubs behind, I think I lose about une litre of wort every time, this way :-(
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Post #21 made 13 years ago
There has been some discussion on the amount of irish moss/whirfloc added to the wort and the effect on the trub. The main thing was that too much can result in a poor trub cone. Check out this thread Here where its discussed in detail.Zelig wrote:Oh, I've never been able to do this. I've got a 33 cm diameter pot, I usually use irish moss too, but after the whirlpool all the sediments (proteins and pellet hops) are always still flat all over the bottom... And I have to leave a lot of trubs behind, I think I lose about une litre of wort every time, this way :-(
Last edited by Yeasty on 07 Feb 2012, 20:42, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #22 made 13 years ago
Thanks 4 the link, yeasty.
I usally use 5 g of moss in about 17 lts of wort. Is it too much?
Anyway, I've finished it in my last batch, and the next few ones will be without it. I'll see if I could spot any difference!
I usally use 5 g of moss in about 17 lts of wort. Is it too much?
Anyway, I've finished it in my last batch, and the next few ones will be without it. I'll see if I could spot any difference!
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Post #23 made 13 years ago
Hi Zelig
I started to reduce the amount either 1/2 a whirlfloc or a level teaspoon of Irish moss. In the post linked it talks about going down to 1/4 tablet for a batch so I would estimate 2-3g would be plenty.
You said you were going to leave it out in the next brew.
be prepared for some hazy beer as irish moss flocs the suspended protiens in the wort which cause haze.
Yeasty
I started to reduce the amount either 1/2 a whirlfloc or a level teaspoon of Irish moss. In the post linked it talks about going down to 1/4 tablet for a batch so I would estimate 2-3g would be plenty.
You said you were going to leave it out in the next brew.
be prepared for some hazy beer as irish moss flocs the suspended protiens in the wort which cause haze.Yeasty
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Post #24 made 13 years ago
I know. But the next ones will be a weizen and a stout, so i'm not much worried for hazyness!
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Post #25 made 13 years ago
I haven't used a fining agent for some years now and I don't have any trouble with hazy beers.
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