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BeerAlchemy and BIAB

Post #1 made 14 years ago
by Binoclard
Hi all,

I have discovered, and started to play with BeerAlchemy.

It's really nice, well designed and I have learned quite a few usefull things about brewing just by putting random numbers, changing grain amounts or hop variety, adjusting IBU or ABV sliders, etc. :geek:

That being said, is there any specific adjustments to make to use it with BIAB in mind and get correct numbers?

One thing that bugs me is the initial water volume, as it seems to calculate backward from the pre-boil and post-boil amount.
In the profiles, you can only choose fly- or batch- sparge, but it doesn't seem to have any impact on the total water required.
What do you think, 29.5L striking water for a 20L batch could be correct?
Total Water Required: 29.50 l
Original Gravity: 1.058 SG (14.6 Brix)
Final Gravity: 1.014 SG (8.2 Brix)
Volume Before Boil: 24.00 l
Volume After Boil: 22.00 l
Volume Transferred: 20.00 l
Volume At Pitching: 20.00 l
Volume Of Finished Beer: 19.00 l
I asked the support, but the guy said to increase the grain/water ratio to simulate BIAB…? Why would the ratio be different?

So, if there is any BeerAlchemy user here, I would love to hear their thoughts about it, and any advices about using it the right way with BIAB.

Thanks in advance, cheers :drink:
Last edited by Binoclard on 04 May 2011, 17:08, edited 5 times in total.

Post #2 made 14 years ago
by stux
I use BeerAlchemy as well, and it drives me batty trying to make it work with BIAB.

In the end I use BeerAlchemy to work out the recipe and then I use my Maxi-BIAB calculator to work out my volumes, and just plug those volumes into BeerAlchemy, totally ignoring its mashing section

Then I just run the brew based on the maxi-biab calculator, and possibly update BeerAlchemy with the actuals after brew day
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #4 made 14 years ago
by shibolet
thats what i do too only with brewmate.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #6 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Binoclard wrote:F###… exactly the kind of answer I was hoping not to receive ^__^

Thanks for your input.
LOL!

There are a lot of nice things about BeerAlchemy. I do own it. In fact, I was so impressed with some aspects of it I actually went and bought a little Apple laptop. It's now for sale :).

It is a great program but like any brewing software, you have to see how well it will speak the international language of brewing. You can get a few brewing programs to agree with each other if you fiddle the figures enough but it takes some work and you will have to do it on every recipe.

BeerAlchemy and BeerSmith1 currently do not speak an international language due to problems I have written about here before. For example, liquor absorption rate by grain cannot be changed in the current version of BeerSmith. (They will be editable in BeerSmith2 though.)
I asked the BeerAlchemy support, but the guy said to increase the grain/water ratio to simulate BIAB…? Why would the ratio be different?
You should actually be decreasing the grain to water ratio and decreasing the grain absorption ratio. (I can't remember if BeerAlchemy allows both of these.)

There's several other 'translation' problems with BeerAlchemy I came across and can no longer remember. It's the same with all programs though.

I went through a stage where I used BeerAlchemy, BeerSmith and The Calculator! I compared recipes etc etc. It's a nightmare!

Currently I simply use "The Calculator" on BIABrewer.info. In the rare instances where I have to look at recipe design, I use BeerSmith as it is the most commonly used program and the one where the proprietor shows the most amount of dedication to the brewing community.

What I am hoping is that BeerSmith2 will incorporate some of the very simple features of The Calculator that all of us understand and appreciate and that the main programs currently lack. For now, use The Calculator to get your basics right (volumes, grain bill and hop bill).

Use BeerAlchemy or BeerSmith to do recipe designs. I think BeerAlchemy has missed their chance at being a force in the brewing community for now. The new version of BeerSmith is going to be available for Mac and the BeerSmith site, even at a quick glance, shows us that it is very much based around providing a continual stream of quality information to us brewers. That is quite telling I think.

Mind you, some of the original BIAB info needs updating!

:P
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 05 May 2011, 00:05, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #8 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
LOL!

What you'll find is that you can 'see' everything very easily on 'The Calculator.' For example, you can change a figure on The Calculator and in a maximum of 1 click (seriously) you will see the effect.

The Calculator does require a look but a look will give you a lot more information on the basic brewing process than can be possibly derived from any other software I have seen to date.

I am hoping that sooner rather than later, we see a program that bridges this divide between something so simple and some other very clever stuff.

The truth is, if you can't work The Calculator out (and identify its faults or short-comings), then there is no chance you will be able to do the same with major software.

What more can I say? :smoke:

;)
PP
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Post #9 made 14 years ago
by stux
Binoclard wrote:Subsidiary question Stux, do you think it is because you MAXI-BIAB, or it's the same with BIAB in general?
I did actually send a long list of 12 detailed suggestions to the author of BeerAlchemy,

one of them was to change the mashing section so you can enter a volume of water, rather than a ratio... because frankly, trying to work out a ratio to make it sync up with the calculator (maxi or otherwise) hurts.

When it comes to the rest of the volumes, the neat thing is BeerAlchemy does have an entry for every one of the major maxi volumes... which is neat. And basically, these volumes are in Standard BIAB too... its just they change differently

At the end of the day, I use BeerAlchemy for recipe design... and yes, as Pat said, its a pitty, it has promise... hopefully the author will take a few of my suggestions on board...

Interstingly, I see that the new BeerSmith has most of my suggestions as major new features ;), and no, i've never used beersmith or communicated with the author

I have found that my maxi volumes tend to be constant, that's one of the nice things with using pot limits to dictate volumes, which means I can create a BeerAlchemy pre-set for my single and double batches
Last edited by stux on 05 May 2011, 15:38, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #10 made 14 years ago
by Binoclard
I'll write him again, urging him to come here and discuss with BIABers to help improve his software. I am sure he doesn't want to miss the next Big Thing of the homebrewing world;)

I am playing around with the Calculator and BA, and while I have more consistent numbers than the other day (putting 2.5-2.75 as Liter/grain ration helps), the total water is still several liters bigger in the Calculator.

Post #11 made 14 years ago
by 2trout
BeerAlchemy? I thought that was the magic of turning malt, hops, and water into Gold! :smoke:
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
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Post #12 made 14 years ago
by popmedium
Hello!

Just an update on this, the developer posted an update on his blog - http://news.kentplacesoftware.com/ and YES BIAB will be supported on the next release. Sounds like it might be a while off but I for one am hanging out big time. I love alchemy and so far the only trouble I have had has been with mash volumes and getting the OG right. The Calculator has been helpful in this regard but it would be nice to have it all in one package.

Joel
Last edited by popmedium on 10 Oct 2011, 08:41, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #13 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Thanks for the update Joel and welcome to the forum :salute:

Didn't realise they also had the iPhone things. Now that I have an iPhone, I'll have to have a look at them :P

Thanks,
PP
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Post #14 made 14 years ago
by popmedium
Hello Pistol Patch and thanks for the welcome!

I'm a total BA convert. I admit I've had to do some figuring and trial and error in order to adjust it to my setup, but I reckon I've just about nearly got it. The iPhone app makes brew day a heap easier and also means on the run I am able to tinker with recipes and stuff.

I can't wait for BIAB to be supported although it isn't clear how far off the next version is. I notice most people use BeerSmith 2. each to their own I guess. I heard Jamil Z. give out some great advice: he said that each program is different and return slightly different results when doing different calculations. the best thing you can do is find one you like a stick with it so that your results are consistant.

Party!
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Post #15 made 14 years ago
by hashie
I hear what your saying popmedium about finding what works for you and sticking with it. The problem is, with all programs being different, it's impossible for someone else to make your beer unless they also use your program and your equipment.

For example you might be making 23 litres at 1048 OG with 38.5 IBU's, according to BA. If the same recipe is put into BS2, say, it may come out at 23 litres 1045 OG and 40 IBU's.

What we need is all of these developers to use the right/correct/same formulae in their programs. Then it would be a simple case of "I like the way this one feels/looks etc.

I've got my fingers crossed that, when it's finished, the calculator (BIABacus) will be the benchmark software to use for BIAB brewing.
Last edited by hashie on 11 Oct 2011, 11:31, edited 5 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #16 made 14 years ago
by stux
PS: In the end I bought BeerSmith 2.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #17 made 13 years ago
by martinj
I'm beer alchemy user myself and after numerous times with separate calculations for BIAB i did som quick hacking on a utility software that reads the recipe information from BeerAlchemy and does the BIAB calculations.

This is what it looks like in the current state:
Image
If anyone want to give a try please send me a PM.
But remember this is highly experimental and I got limited spare time so you run it at your own risk.
Last edited by martinj on 18 Jan 2012, 00:32, edited 5 times in total.

Post #18 made 13 years ago
by mojonojo
martinj wrote:I'm beer alchemy user myself and after numerous times with separate calculations for BIAB i did som quick hacking on a utility software that reads the recipe information from BeerAlchemy and does the BIAB calculations.


If anyone want to give a try please send me a PM.
But remember this is highly experimental and I got limited spare time so you run it at your own risk.
Thanks to martinJ for this, im having a play at the moment, and will try to get a brew on this week with it and & alchemy as my only source of calculations - wish me luck
Last edited by mojonojo on 31 Jan 2012, 19:16, edited 5 times in total.
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