Hi, I'm doing my first BIAB recipe soon(as soon as I clear up what I need to do). I have a 33litre plastic boiler(355mm diameter and 390mm deep). I want to keep it as simple as possible, no sparge. I'm going to pick up some styrofoam insulation and make a jacket for the boiler and cover the lid and bottom too with several layers. I want to try the following AG hobgoblin clone that was recommended to my by an AG brewer.
20 litres of hobgobliny style goodness
5kg. Pale malt
200g. Crystal Malt
30g. Chocolate Malt
10g. Black malt
About 28IBUs worth of bittering hops(48grams Styrian Goldings)
15g. Styrian Goldings (15mins)
15g. Styrian Goldings (2mins)
WLP005 British Ale Yeast
is this going to be possible in my 33litre boiler? Beersmith(which I'm very new to) is telling me that I need a preboil volume of 30litres--dont know how I can achieve this after pulling out the grain bag with about 5kg(dry) of grain? Whats the best way to do this?
Any help much appreciated. Just need to know how to work this to get my first AG(BIAB) going?
Thanks
L
Post #2 made 14 years ago
Just top up your boiler to the 30L mark after pulling out and squeezing the bajeezus out of your grain
Before you do top up, you could measure the gravity, and then you can actually compensate for missing the target efficiency BeerSmith is expecting by adding less water if necessary
Before you do top up, you could measure the gravity, and then you can actually compensate for missing the target efficiency BeerSmith is expecting by adding less water if necessary
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #3 made 14 years ago
Thanks Stux, that sounds good but I thought I read somewhere(could have been Palmers book but I'm not sure) that the grain bag shouldn't be squeezed because of tannins which taste bad I think?? Is that rubbish?
Also, any idea how to calculate my boil off rate?
Thanks!!
L
Also, any idea how to calculate my boil off rate?
Thanks!!
L
Post #4 made 14 years ago
Hey Lars, squeeze your bag to your hearts content, you will not get tannins in your beer.
The calculator on this site will give you an approximate boil off rate. The best method though is to do a few brews and to keep good notes.
The calculator on this site will give you an approximate boil off rate. The best method though is to do a few brews and to keep good notes.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #5 made 14 years ago
Just top up with more water after you take your bag out. It is safe to squeeze also (some people rinse the grains over the kettle with some sparge water). Measure pre-boil gravity and also measure how much you lose to evaporation during the boil. If you have a memory like a goldfish (like I have) I recommend writing down the measurements.
cheers
cheers
Post #6 made 14 years ago
Thanks guys, I've had a look at the calculator and I've afew more questions:
My first BIAB recipe is going to be a hobgoblin clone with the following grain bill:
5kg Marris Otter
200g of 118 EBC crystal malt
30g chocolate malt
10g black malt
expecting an OG of 1.058
Its mean to be a 20l batch
I'll be filling my 33litre plastic boiler to about 25litres, heating to strike temp and then adding in my grains. I'll steep them for 60~90mins, drain them into another container and then top up with preheated sparge water to meet (just short of) preboil volume, let sit for 10mins and drain completely. Then remove bag, return wort to boiler and start 90minute boil. My questions are:
not 100% sure about sparging yet but If I do what should sparge water temp be?
how do I calculate strike temp of water to add grains to?
Is preboil gravity the same as O.G.?
should my OG be adjusted for temperature and how does this work? because I assume its best to target for a specific OG rather than a preboil volume not knowing my efficiency(and I'd be worried about ending up with pi$$y beer!). I was thinking I'd take gravity of wort after mash and if its low add less water(because Helgibelgi said its a good idea), then target for a low preboil volume because its easier to add water during boil than take it out.
If my O.G. isn't high enough after a 90mins boil should I just keep boiling until I get close enough due to evaporation
Thanks
L
My first BIAB recipe is going to be a hobgoblin clone with the following grain bill:
5kg Marris Otter
200g of 118 EBC crystal malt
30g chocolate malt
10g black malt
expecting an OG of 1.058
Its mean to be a 20l batch
I'll be filling my 33litre plastic boiler to about 25litres, heating to strike temp and then adding in my grains. I'll steep them for 60~90mins, drain them into another container and then top up with preheated sparge water to meet (just short of) preboil volume, let sit for 10mins and drain completely. Then remove bag, return wort to boiler and start 90minute boil. My questions are:
not 100% sure about sparging yet but If I do what should sparge water temp be?
how do I calculate strike temp of water to add grains to?
Is preboil gravity the same as O.G.?
should my OG be adjusted for temperature and how does this work? because I assume its best to target for a specific OG rather than a preboil volume not knowing my efficiency(and I'd be worried about ending up with pi$$y beer!). I was thinking I'd take gravity of wort after mash and if its low add less water(because Helgibelgi said its a good idea), then target for a low preboil volume because its easier to add water during boil than take it out.
If my O.G. isn't high enough after a 90mins boil should I just keep boiling until I get close enough due to evaporation
Thanks
L
Post #7 made 14 years ago
Lars, I think have a good read through The Commentary to make sure you have a good picture on your mind of what to expect on your brew day. Also...
Don't muck around with sparging, especially the way you have written above. That is going to be very cumbersome. Do a slightly smaller batch and/or do what stux said in post number 2 above. Plus you can also add water at any time, right up to when you pitch.
Don't extend your boil time. A good recipe will turn out fine even if it is too strong or too weak so do some brews with no playing around at first so as you get an idea of your figures. One thing you'll learn after this is that no single reading is reliable so if you extend your boil, you'll not only wreck your hop additions up, it may turn out to be unnecessary anyway. Doing several brews and recording as many figures as possible is the fastest way to get figures you can trust (see below).
Do a mash out, so raise the temp to 78 C before you pull the bag. Tannins can't be extracted from a BIAB mash at this temperature unless your ph was incredibly out.
Measure your pre-boil gravity and volume, your post-boil gravity and volume and as a final check your trub losses, volume into fermenter and another gravity check once the wort is cool. All these figures act as checks against each other. Do this on your first five brews or so. When you take a hot sample, cover it with wrap and let it cool to ambient temperatature by putting it in the sink or freezer. Don't use temperature adjusting tables as they further add to error margins especially at high temps. A hydrometer should not be put in hot liquids.
So mate, just keep it simple for your first few brews, preferably five. After this, then start to play around and you'll know if the changes you are making are actually making any difference.
Cheers,
PP
Don't muck around with sparging, especially the way you have written above. That is going to be very cumbersome. Do a slightly smaller batch and/or do what stux said in post number 2 above. Plus you can also add water at any time, right up to when you pitch.
Don't extend your boil time. A good recipe will turn out fine even if it is too strong or too weak so do some brews with no playing around at first so as you get an idea of your figures. One thing you'll learn after this is that no single reading is reliable so if you extend your boil, you'll not only wreck your hop additions up, it may turn out to be unnecessary anyway. Doing several brews and recording as many figures as possible is the fastest way to get figures you can trust (see below).
Do a mash out, so raise the temp to 78 C before you pull the bag. Tannins can't be extracted from a BIAB mash at this temperature unless your ph was incredibly out.
Measure your pre-boil gravity and volume, your post-boil gravity and volume and as a final check your trub losses, volume into fermenter and another gravity check once the wort is cool. All these figures act as checks against each other. Do this on your first five brews or so. When you take a hot sample, cover it with wrap and let it cool to ambient temperatature by putting it in the sink or freezer. Don't use temperature adjusting tables as they further add to error margins especially at high temps. A hydrometer should not be put in hot liquids.
So mate, just keep it simple for your first few brews, preferably five. After this, then start to play around and you'll know if the changes you are making are actually making any difference.
Cheers,
PP
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Post #8 made 14 years ago
Thanks PP. I'm kinda glad you put me off sparging. It makes the job simpler. Read the sommentary and I'm pretty much ready to go. Supplies arriving on monday and bought some lagging for my electric boiler...
Q: For mash out does my mash need to sit at 78deg for any period of time before pulling the bag? or just hit temp and pull?
Thanks
L
Q: For mash out does my mash need to sit at 78deg for any period of time before pulling the bag? or just hit temp and pull?
Thanks
L
Post #9 made 14 years ago
Re Mash out...Raise to 78c (stirring if bag in place) leave for 10 min and pull bag....Lars wrote:Thanks PP. I'm kinda glad you put me off sparging. It makes the job simpler. Read the sommentary and I'm pretty much ready to go. Supplies arriving on monday and bought some lagging for my electric boiler...
Q: For mash out does my mash need to sit at 78deg for any period of time before pulling the bag? or just hit temp and pull?
Thanks
L
Yeasty
Last edited by Yeasty on 27 Aug 2011, 06:59, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #10 made 14 years ago
Thanks guys but more questions(at the moment)...
I think I've a pretty good setup for insulating but itll be a bit cumbersome to get on and off.
The checklist would have you frequently opening up the insulation and brewpot to check for temp(and agitate). Id rather keep this to a minimum to keep heat in because I'm nervous about adding heat for obvious reasons...burning bag, distributing added heat evenly etc...(plastic brewpot with kettle element)
Is frequent agitation necessary? What does it add to the process?
With good insulation would my plastic brewpot be likely to hold heat well for say an hour? I'm targeting a mash temp of 68deg but surely if it could stay above 60deg for 60~90 mins I wouldn't need to add any heat(or is this highly unlikely)?
My ideal plan would be to check temp initially, wrap it up well and check again after an hour, then at the end of the mash and mash out. Does this sound OK or do I really need to open up and stir at regular intervals?
Thanks
L
I think I've a pretty good setup for insulating but itll be a bit cumbersome to get on and off.
The checklist would have you frequently opening up the insulation and brewpot to check for temp(and agitate). Id rather keep this to a minimum to keep heat in because I'm nervous about adding heat for obvious reasons...burning bag, distributing added heat evenly etc...(plastic brewpot with kettle element)
Is frequent agitation necessary? What does it add to the process?
With good insulation would my plastic brewpot be likely to hold heat well for say an hour? I'm targeting a mash temp of 68deg but surely if it could stay above 60deg for 60~90 mins I wouldn't need to add any heat(or is this highly unlikely)?
My ideal plan would be to check temp initially, wrap it up well and check again after an hour, then at the end of the mash and mash out. Does this sound OK or do I really need to open up and stir at regular intervals?
Thanks
L
Post #11 made 14 years ago
Lars,as long as you are confident of your mash holding temp,you are fine to leave it alone during the mash,although I believe some here find their efficiencies to be better with an occasional stir.
AWOL
Post #12 made 14 years ago
I've read on here somewhere that pre-warming your insulation helps with reducing heat loss. I think it was a post by Ralph, try a search of his posts. Those silver space blankets have also been used. I use 2 sleeping bags around the sides and an old bean bag on top and during my last brew it lost 1 degree over the first hour.Lars wrote:With good insulation would my plastic brewpot be likely to hold heat well for say an hour?
As its your first brew I would raise to mash temp plus 3c dough in and give it a good stir, adjust for temp if required and insulate. Then leave it for your mash time. Keep good records (see check list) and leave any temp adjustment malarky for your second brew. Keep it simple and you will do ok. Once you've got a brew under your belt the next one will be easier and before long you will be wondering what all the fuss was about.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Yeasty
Last edited by Yeasty on 28 Aug 2011, 05:32, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #13 made 14 years ago
Hey Lars,I also found it useful to record the ambient temp while I'm, brewing as well,I don't know about you but through the year here my temps will range from -35c to +30c, although I will not likely be brewing on any of those days!
AWOL
Post #14 made 14 years ago
Hey there Lars, yeah, go with generous insulation is my advice. As per Yeasty's post, if you can pre- heat it then even better.
I pre- heat mostly in winter, lose only a degree C over my usual 90 minute mash and often less. This is easy to achieve if you over- heat your strike water by a couple of degrees, place the brewpot where it will be resting during the mash, insulate and leave it for a few minutes then mash in once it has returned to the desired temp. With everything warmed up to begin with, there's less heat loss when it all stabilises, that means your mash stays at teh desired temperature longer.
I'm not much of a mash stirrer to be honest, I check it once about 10 minutes in, adjust if required and then leave until the end.
Good luck, hope your first BIAB is a real cracker!
I pre- heat mostly in winter, lose only a degree C over my usual 90 minute mash and often less. This is easy to achieve if you over- heat your strike water by a couple of degrees, place the brewpot where it will be resting during the mash, insulate and leave it for a few minutes then mash in once it has returned to the desired temp. With everything warmed up to begin with, there's less heat loss when it all stabilises, that means your mash stays at teh desired temperature longer.
I'm not much of a mash stirrer to be honest, I check it once about 10 minutes in, adjust if required and then leave until the end.
Good luck, hope your first BIAB is a real cracker!
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]
Post #15 made 14 years ago
I suspect there are two major extremes in the biab world
No-stirrers and no-insulators
No-stirrers and no-insulators
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #17 made 14 years ago
Did it. Thanks for the help guys. My first AG and BIAB day went as follows.
Recipe:Hobgoblin Clone
119g crystal 100EBC
82g caramel 145EBC
10g black malt
30g chocolate malt
5kg Maris otter
Hops:
60mins:
12g Youngs Goldings 5%AA + 64g Styrian Goldings 3.3%AA
15mins:
18g Styrian Goldings 3.3%AA + 1tsp of Irish Moss
2mins:
18g Styrian Goldings 3.3%AA
Heated 24litres up to strike temp of 73.5 deg.
Mash in stirring well take temp:
69deg in deep and 68 up at top of mash
Wrapped up for 90minute mash and checked temp again at end of 90mins:
61.5deg at top and 69deg at centre of mash--appears to have been no loss of heat at centre of mash
Mash out: took a good 10mins of mucking around(lifting bag, applying heat,stirring mash--repeating) to hit mash out temp of 78deg. Let sit for 15mins.
Removed and squeezed bag leaving approx 21.75litres of wort.
Start 60min boil:
Hop + moss additions.
19.5L at end of boil(not 100% sure about this because I ended up with only 16.5Litres in fermenter~~~Where the beer go??)
Flamout: Turn on chiller.
O.G.=1.064
16.5litres in fermenter topped up to 20litres with a final temp of 26deg
New O.G. = 1.052
Pitched White Labs WLP005 British Ale Yeast at 26deg.
Bubbling away continuously by following morning.......
My Youngs grain bag tore slightly and my crappy hop strainer has got to go. Its a piece of junk and always blocks.
Thanks again for the help! Cant wait to taste the beer.
L
Recipe:Hobgoblin Clone
119g crystal 100EBC
82g caramel 145EBC
10g black malt
30g chocolate malt
5kg Maris otter
Hops:
60mins:
12g Youngs Goldings 5%AA + 64g Styrian Goldings 3.3%AA
15mins:
18g Styrian Goldings 3.3%AA + 1tsp of Irish Moss
2mins:
18g Styrian Goldings 3.3%AA
Heated 24litres up to strike temp of 73.5 deg.
Mash in stirring well take temp:
69deg in deep and 68 up at top of mash
Wrapped up for 90minute mash and checked temp again at end of 90mins:
61.5deg at top and 69deg at centre of mash--appears to have been no loss of heat at centre of mash
Mash out: took a good 10mins of mucking around(lifting bag, applying heat,stirring mash--repeating) to hit mash out temp of 78deg. Let sit for 15mins.
Removed and squeezed bag leaving approx 21.75litres of wort.
Start 60min boil:
Hop + moss additions.
19.5L at end of boil(not 100% sure about this because I ended up with only 16.5Litres in fermenter~~~Where the beer go??)
Flamout: Turn on chiller.
O.G.=1.064
16.5litres in fermenter topped up to 20litres with a final temp of 26deg
New O.G. = 1.052
Pitched White Labs WLP005 British Ale Yeast at 26deg.
Bubbling away continuously by following morning.......
My Youngs grain bag tore slightly and my crappy hop strainer has got to go. Its a piece of junk and always blocks.
Thanks again for the help! Cant wait to taste the beer.
L
Post #18 made 14 years ago
Well done Lars 
Glad to see it went ok.
The Hobgoblin Clone looks nice, don't forget to post it in the recipe section.
Yeasty
Glad to see it went ok.The Hobgoblin Clone looks nice, don't forget to post it in the recipe section.
Yeasty
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
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Post #19 made 14 years ago
Sounds like you did really well Lars. Good on you 
.
Great to see you investigated the temp of your mash etc. With BIAB, as you know, you can avoid the temperature 'pockets' by stirring but there is no proof that having such an even mash is any more beneficial than having an uneven mash. I remember posting a few years ago on another forum that maybe an uneven mash adds character. After all, who really knows? (Personally I do stir the mash but I am often very slack and have never noticed a differnece between my slack brews and my concentrated ones).
The ten minutes to reach mash out for that size batch is normal. For bigger batches, it, of course, takes longer again. It probably takes as long to get from mash temp to mash out temp as it does to get from mashout to boiling due to the grain body. The good news is that ThirstyBoy wrote something recently (see here) which says not to worry about resting at mashout for BIAB brews. What he said makes good sense to me.
LOL on the crappy strainer etc. I have heaps of equipment I thought would work perfectly and turned out to be disastrous
.
Once again, sounds like you did really well. I too can't wait until you taste your beer and second Yeasty's vote to put your recipe into the recipe section if you end up being happy with it which I'm pretty sure you will.
PP
.Great to see you investigated the temp of your mash etc. With BIAB, as you know, you can avoid the temperature 'pockets' by stirring but there is no proof that having such an even mash is any more beneficial than having an uneven mash. I remember posting a few years ago on another forum that maybe an uneven mash adds character. After all, who really knows? (Personally I do stir the mash but I am often very slack and have never noticed a differnece between my slack brews and my concentrated ones
).The ten minutes to reach mash out for that size batch is normal. For bigger batches, it, of course, takes longer again. It probably takes as long to get from mash temp to mash out temp as it does to get from mashout to boiling due to the grain body. The good news is that ThirstyBoy wrote something recently (see here) which says not to worry about resting at mashout for BIAB brews. What he said makes good sense to me.
LOL on the crappy strainer etc. I have heaps of equipment I thought would work perfectly and turned out to be disastrous
.Once again, sounds like you did really well. I too can't wait until you taste your beer and second Yeasty's vote to put your recipe into the recipe section if you end up being happy with it which I'm pretty sure you will.
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 08 Sep 2011, 20:17, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #20 made 14 years ago
just bottled this today which may have been a waste of time. Been to busy to do it earlier so its been sitting in primary on a yeast cake for a month undisturbed. Anyway when I broke the seal it hit me in the face like vinegar. Anyway, desperately hoping it wasn't infected I tasted it and it didn't taste beautiful but didn't taste like the initial smell. Also, when it was open for a few minutes the nasty smell cleared. I bottled anyway hoping my first ag brew isn't knackered. Did I waste my time?? Is it possible that the vinegar like smell was something other than an infection or is that the most likely?
thanks
L
thanks
L
Post #21 made 14 years ago
I would not lose any sleep over it, likely it is fine. A month in the primary is non-issue (actually helps lighter beers clear nicely, not such an issue with your dark brew). Let us know how it is a month from now.Lars wrote:just bottled this today which may have been a waste of time. Been to busy to do it earlier so its been sitting in primary on a yeast cake for a month undisturbed. Anyway when I broke the seal it hit me in the face like vinegar. Anyway, desperately hoping it wasn't infected I tasted it and it didn't taste beautiful but didn't taste like the initial smell. Also, when it was open for a few minutes the nasty smell cleared. I bottled anyway hoping my first ag brew isn't knackered. Did I waste my time?? Is it possible that the vinegar like smell was something other than an infection or is that the most likely?
thanks
L
Last edited by thughes on 04 Oct 2011, 02:58, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #22 made 14 years ago
Hi lars
+1 as per thughes
Don't worry it will be fine. I've left beers in the FV for 4 weeks due to not been able to bottle and they've turned out ok.
As to the smell, I think this is normal for some brews, I've just transfered a Burton Ale into secondary for dry hopping and that had a "sharp" smell when I opened the FV lid. As long as it tastes ok you should be fine.
Yeasty
+1 as per thughes
Don't worry it will be fine. I've left beers in the FV for 4 weeks due to not been able to bottle and they've turned out ok.
As to the smell, I think this is normal for some brews, I've just transfered a Burton Ale into secondary for dry hopping and that had a "sharp" smell when I opened the FV lid. As long as it tastes ok you should be fine.
Yeasty
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Post #23 made 14 years ago
Thughes and Yeasty, thanks for the reassurance I hope you're right. I was very close to dumping it.
I'll keep yis posted.
Thanks
L
I'll keep yis posted.
Thanks
L
Post #24 made 14 years ago
Never dump your beer! Sometimes over the course of a year or more something really BAD can come around and become the "best thing you ever drank".
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Post #25 made 14 years ago
I'll remember that but I assume you're talking about everything except infected beer.thughes wrote:Never dump your beer! Sometimes over the course of a year or more something really BAD can come around and become the "best thing you ever drank".
Thanks
L
Last edited by Lars on 04 Oct 2011, 05:33, edited 5 times in total.
