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Yeast starter hasnt.. well..... STARTED!

Post #1 made 14 years ago
by redlegger
Hey Guys.

I have recently made myself a stir-plate and im currently TRYING to grow a starter using recultured coopers pale ale yeast.

I used the dregs of three stubbies in about 600ml of 1.030 wort.

It has been on the stirplate for 48 hours now, and there is no action at all. I took a gravity sample and the gravity is still at 1.030. What is the normal amount of time for this particular yeast to start up??
I was hoping to step it up to 2L by now and pitch on the weekend, but i cant see it happening.

Additional info.
The 'Best After Date' on the coopers bottles is Jan 2011 - Is this too old to culture up?
The temp has been ranging from approx 15 overnight to about 20 during the day - Do i need to get it warmer?

Maybe i have answered my own question by saying its too old and too cold!

But any help would be appreciated :sneak:

Thanks guys

RL
"I like beer. On occasion, I will even drink beer to celebrate a major event such as the fall of Communism or the fact that the refrigerator is still working.” – Dave Berry

Post #2 made 14 years ago
by EoinMag
It sounds to me like you've started with a very large wort for reculturing stubby dregs. I'd have started a lot smaller than 600ml, like say 100-150ml for bottle dregs and then step it up to a litre then two and so on.

I've done the Coopers reculture once when I was still on kits, I don't think I'd bother now, unless I was trying to copy their beers all grain, but in any case what you've done sounds ok, but I'd raise the temperatures a bit, or stabilise them, 15 sounds too low, but I'd have expected some activity after 2-3 days on a stirplate, I don't even have one and did the coopers thing successfully, that said I do it regularly with other yeasts.
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Post #3 made 14 years ago
by shibolet
i agree that 600ml for a starter from bottle dregs is a bit much but i would too have expected some activity after 48hrs on a stir plate.
i think your assumptions are right. too old and too cold.
please don't give up and do keep us posted.
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Post #4 made 14 years ago
by stux
I would've expected some action by now

I'd suggest getting some newer bottles
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #5 made 14 years ago
by redlegger
Thanks for the comments guys.

600ml seems to be the acceptable starting volume. Attached is a popular article from AHB.
Coopers_Yeast[1].pdf
In the article is does say that after 2 days you should start to see some action, i thought on a stir plate i would see action a bit earlier. I will wait another day or two before starting again with fresher yeast , in warmer conditions, in a smaller starting volume

Fortunatley i have beer in the keg to keep me going while i wait for this one to get going :drink:

Ill post back and let you know how i get on :salute:

RL
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Last edited by redlegger on 25 Jun 2011, 09:24, edited 5 times in total.
"I like beer. On occasion, I will even drink beer to celebrate a major event such as the fall of Communism or the fact that the refrigerator is still working.” – Dave Berry

Post #6 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Hi there RL :peace:

The guys above are absolutely correct - 600 mls is way too much to use initially for such a tiny amount of yeast so delete that pdf from your computer :).

I haven't done this for ages but I would have gone this way...

Made a 2 litre wort using 200 grams of DME (or similiar wort from a prior brew diluted to around 1.035). Started with 125 ml (at most) and stir. When you see activity, add another 125 ml. Stir and when you see activity add 250 ml. Repeat this adding 500ml and then 1 L.

Does that sound correct guys? As I said, it has been a long time since I have done this so I might be wrong.

Cheers,
PP
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Post #7 made 14 years ago
by stux
I would probably do

200 ml then add 1.8L

That gives a ten fold stepping
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #8 made 14 years ago
by redlegger
Hi Guys,
Been a bit busy sorry, but after 75-80 hours she finally kicked, and i stepped it up... it went gang busters in the fermenter after 12 hours and is still munching away at the wort!! hopefully it will be done in a few days!

I would say the low temps was the main culprit!
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Last edited by redlegger on 02 Jul 2011, 09:15, edited 5 times in total.
"I like beer. On occasion, I will even drink beer to celebrate a major event such as the fall of Communism or the fact that the refrigerator is still working.” – Dave Berry

Post #9 made 14 years ago
by stux
Possibly very low viable cell count in the original bottle as well
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #10 made 14 years ago
by redlegger
stux wrote:Possibly very low viable cell count in the original bottle as well
Another reason to start with a smaller volume stux?

Cheers RL
Last edited by redlegger on 02 Jul 2011, 09:52, edited 5 times in total.
"I like beer. On occasion, I will even drink beer to celebrate a major event such as the fall of Communism or the fact that the refrigerator is still working.” – Dave Berry

Post #11 made 14 years ago
by stux
Yes, initial activity would be easier to see

The main reason to start with a small volume is so that the yeast can colonize the volume and get a critical mass quickly and thus out compete bacteria.

Essentially you witnessed a long lag time because you under pitched the yeast ;)

Which is not a huge problem in a starter, as long as the bacteria do not get a foot hold
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #12 made 14 years ago
by stux
Slant -> 20ml -> 200ml -> 2L -> 20L

10 fold steppings takes you from most points to a full batch

Many sources advise smaller limits, but 10 is also listed in the literature, and the smaller steps are used at brewery scale

The advice I have read is to do the larger steps earlier, so if you were pitching double batches from 20ml source

20ml -> 400ml -> 4L -> 40L

Or compromise and do

20ml -> 300ml -> 4L -> 40L

Shouldn't matter as the yeast will colonize to about 100MCells/ml (this does vary based on stir plate/no stir plate)
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #13 made 14 years ago
by redlegger
Cheers Stux, good info.
When stepping from 2L to the full batch, should i crash chill and decant off the beer then just pitch the yeast?? Or just whack the whole lot in??
"I like beer. On occasion, I will even drink beer to celebrate a major event such as the fall of Communism or the fact that the refrigerator is still working.” – Dave Berry

Post #14 made 14 years ago
by BobBrews
redlegger,

I would swoosh the whole thing around and "just whack the whole lot in"! I tried to decant the beer off and just use the yeast but the gooey mess wanted to coat the flask. Now, when I do laggers (in Winter) I just chuck the whole lot in! No problems!
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Post #15 made 14 years ago
by stux
I put the flask in the fridge for a few days which knocks the yeast out then I decant most of the oxidized nasty starter liquid, but not all. I then swirl and dump into the fermenter
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12
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