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Post #26 made 11 years ago
by mally
I know what you mean about the flocculation, but I just can't get past the flavours it puts out :angry:
To me the flavours seemed to render an all grain brew into a kit & kilo brew. More twang than anything, but I do like the "stinky feet wrapped in bread" analogy!

I'm not sure what to do with my sour now. I racked it to another vessel with the plan to carry out a secondary fermentation which would then allow me to bottle afterwards knowing the yeast is alive and well. However, I reseeded with more brett (& fermentables obviously) and it seems to have killed everything! Tasting the flat warm beer was just like vinegar, so I think I may have an acetobacter infection in there now :idiot:
I know chilled & carbonated can make a difference, so I haven't dumped it yet. Just trying to gigure out what to do next, but it is low on my priority list at the moment (I still haven't got around to using the siphon yet)!

I do like reading the mad fermntationist so I would guess that is a great book to read too.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #27 made 11 years ago
by Rick
I'll be sure to keep an eye out for how to treat acetobacter within this context, will be reading heavily over holiday!
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Post #28 made 11 years ago
by Rick
I still have half the batch from this brew cellared for this year's winter months, so I'm in the early stages of planning to make this into a sour for late 2016.

I was looking in my inventory, and all I would need to buy is 1lb of crystal and some yeast to make the Old Ale again. I found this recipe on Mike Tonsmeire's site to help me adapt my recipe.

Not sure yet if I will pitch something like roeselare w/ us-05 (and modify the grain/hop bill for full on Flanders Brown), or go with the WLP013 and specific cultures to keep it within the realm of Old Ale (I'm leaning toward the latter, but research is needed).

I planned to double the sour worting volume the next time around, but I will have to learn if this method becomes redundant when going full on sour. I'm thinking it might with the Roeselare, because there is lacto in there. Perhaps the sour worting w/ WLP013 + brett C will be an option though ... who knows. I'll have to page through Mike's American Sours book again to see what will best suit this kind of brew.

I can always start a Solera method for this and mix it with a fresh batch after i bottle some of it. I guess there are many unpredictable factors that will affect the outcome.

All input and experience is welcome!
Image
Last edited by Rick on 26 Aug 2015, 00:36, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #29 made 11 years ago
by Rick
I did some reading, and decided the route will surely have to be in keeping this an Old Ale. No bugs or anything, aside from the lacto souring, which will be pasteurized prior to fermentation. I will stick to the original 2L portion of lacto, as I hear brett and higher attenuation can help this quality stand out more. If I desire more, the next solera cycle can always have lacto portion increased.

London Ale yeast and Brett C, but I haven't decided whether I will pitch them together in primary .. or add the Brett in secondary. I will bottle half the batch 1 year post secondary and have some fresh beer ready to replace what is taken out. The gravity should be stable well before then, but I will obviously keep an eye on that first and foremost.

The other half of that newer top-off batch can start the process over in another set of vessels (likely 1 gallon jugs to start). Thus begins experimentation and evolution of the process as I learn on the fly, and the possibilities are endless. I really do like the style in general, so I think this will be the beginning of something beautiful.

I decided against adding bugs to this recipe, as the malt bill would need to be completely reworked. Apparently english base malts and roasted grains in this recipe can really clash with the end product. It can work out, but I'd rather save all that fun stuff for a Flanders Brown/Oud Bruin .. or Flander's Red (which will follow this brew shortly).

Now that I have newer fermenters for my clean ales, all of the older stuff can be dedicated to funky beers!
Last edited by Rick on 26 Aug 2015, 22:18, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #30 made 11 years ago
by Rick
Okay, so now I have competing brett strains. A cherry pie quality would be more favorable than pineapple for this style, so Brett-L emerges.

Source: http://www.milkthefunk.com/forums/topic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ain-guide/

They say Brett-C was isolated from old/stock ale strain, confirmed here. Even still, I'm looking much harder at the L now. Some helpful discussion on these two HBT threads.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=295429" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=295821" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, it looks as if I'm going to add the Brett in secondary for added funk.

Source: http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Brettan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... rmentation
Last edited by Rick on 27 Aug 2015, 01:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #31 made 11 years ago
by Rick
Also, I wasn't willing to post my initial recipe considering it was from BCS. BUT, now that it's so heavily modified ... it has become my own at this point.

Here is the base recipe, which is subject to change as I learn more of course.

I'm also reading that the Brett will eat and remove saccharomyces esters, so I may opt for the cheaper/easier S04. I dunno, I really like that WLP013, so I may decide to ignore the conventional wisdom to find out for myself. Even if there's a 1 in a million chance the london ale esters will survive, I will want to take that chance.

Source: (under Flavor Development section of the following link) http://www.themadfermentationist.com/20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... myces.html
[center]BIABacus 1.0 RECIPE REPORT[/center]
[center]BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.[/center]
[center](Please visit http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the latest version.)[/center]
[center]Suffolk Punch - Batch 2[/center]

Recipe Overview

Brewer: Conestoga
Style: Old Ale
Source Recipe Link:
ABV: 10.3% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.09
IBU's (Tinseth): 30.1
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.33
Colour: 44.7 EBC = 22.7 SRM

Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 73.9 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 66.6 %

Note: This is a Multi-Step Mash

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 20 mins at 66.6 C = 151.9 F
then 60 mins at 69.0 C = 156.2F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment: 21 days at 20 C = 68 F

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)
The, "Clear Brewing Terminology," thread at http://www.biabrewer.info/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Total Water Needed (TWN): 41.43 L = 10.94 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 36.81 L = 9.72 G @ 1.064
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 25.53 L = 6.74 G @ 1.09
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 23 L = 6.08 G @ 1.09
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 21.88 L = 5.78 G @ 1.012 assuming apparent attenuation of 87 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (needs link)

88.8% Fawcett Golden Promise (6.5 EBC = 3.3 SRM) 9320 grams = 20.55 pounds
3.5% Breiss C80 (212 EBC = 107.6 SRM) 367 grams = 0.81 pounds
1.2% chocolate malt (932 EBC = 473.1 SRM) 126 grams = 0.28 pounds
2.2% Lyle's Blk Treacle (265.4 EBC = 134.7 SRM) 231 grams = 0.51 pounds (Boiled Only)
4.3% Acidulated (3.3 EBC = 1.7 SRM) 451 grams = 0.99 pounds *this amt exclusive to my water profile*

The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)

30.1 IBU Willamette Pellets (5%AA) 81 grams = 2.857 ounces at 90 mins

Mash Steps

Mash Type: Multi-Step Mash - First Step: Sacharification for 20 mins at 66.6 C = 151.9 F

Strike Water Needed (SWN): 42.25 L = 11.16 G at 71.2 C = 160.2 F
for 60 mins at 69 C = 156.2 F

Mashout for 10 mins at 76 C = 168.8 F

Chilling & Hop Management Methods

Hopsock Used: Y (Pulled 0 mins after boil end.)

Chilling Method: Kettle or Cube

Fermentation & Conditioning

Fermentation: WLP013 for 21 days at 20 C = 68 F

Secondary Used: Y
Crash-Chilled: N
Filtered: N
Req. Volumes of CO2: 2
Serving Temp: 4 C = 39.2 F
Condition for 21 days.
Consume within 60 months.

Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer

1. Reserve 2L unhopped mash wort for lactic souring. Sour 3 days, pasteurize 10m, chill .. and add to primary (will dilute beer some). 2. Secondary fermentation is done with brettanomyces lambicus(Wyeast 5526?) for 8+ mos.
Last edited by Rick on 27 Aug 2015, 01:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #32 made 11 years ago
by Rick
Some more resources here. I'm whittled down to Wyeast 5526 and WLP653 for the brett L.

The White labs is described as intense, smoky, horsey ... lacks the cherry flavor I seek in Wyeast's version. Although it is said to be heavy on the funk, which appeals to me.

Bookmarks for that,

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/p/ ... tures.html
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/20 ... t-lab.html
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/20 ... myces.html

Wyeast is the heavy favorite in polls, so I'm definitely choosing that. Although, I'm tempted to double batch with both strains. Makes sense to do this considering how long this is going to take, but this would mean scrounging for ingredients to pull it off. Yesterday this was out of the question, but excitement has built up as well as my knowledge base ... which turns the tables quite a bit.

I'll ponder.

WLP013 is sold out basically everywhere, might opt for the Wyeast 1028 as substitute. Hrmph, that yeast is also tempting me to make the competing batch, people seem to prefer that over the WL london ale yeast.

Edit: ECY34 has entered the game.
http://www.eastcoastyeast.com/wild-stuff.html

Apparently this is really hard to get, but it's local to me and a coworker said he can get it regularly. Looking into that.
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Post #33 made 10 years ago
by flhb
I thought that I would add to an old post.

After watching Basic Brewing Radio’s video on Sour Worting (http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?p" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ner-weisse), I thought I would give it a try. My first experiment was simply 1 lb of light DME in a 1-gallon glass carboy – more or less exactly like James does in the video. It turned out fantastic! I soured for 2 days which left it tart, but still very drinkable.

I decided to do a larger, all-grain, batch. I took the basic recipe outlined by James in his video and put it into the Biabacus (see attached). I scaled the recipe not by how much wort I wanted to go into the fermenter, but how much I wanted to go into the boil. This is because I needed to ensure that there was zero headspace in the fermenter when I was souring the beer to avoid any contact with oxygen, for obvious reasons. I estimated that 3.25G would do the trick for my 3G glass carboy (I actually had to top it off with water, but it was a close guess).

I soured for two days, taste-testing along the way. Once I was satisfied with the tartness I added hops and boiled, etc. It is currently fermenting in my chiller and I can’t wait for it to finish up! A super easy and quick way to sour beer without worrying about any other undesirable bugs getting in.

EDIT: Can't seem to get the file to attach so I'll just include the report instead...

[center]BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3T RECIPE REPORT[/center]
[center]BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.[/center]
[center](Please visit http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the latest version.)[/center]
[center]Sour Wort Berliner Weisse[/center]

Recipe Overview

Brewer: flhb
Style: Berliner Weisse
Source Recipe Link:
ABV: 3.4% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.035
IBU's (Tinseth):
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio:
Colour:

Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 85 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 72.8 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 90 mins at 66.7 C = 152 F
Boil: 15 min
Ferment:

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)
The, "Clear Brewing Terminology," thread at http://www.biabrewer.info/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Total Water Needed (TWN): 13.91 L = 3.67 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 12.88 L = 3.4 G @ 1.033
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 11.67 L = 3.08 G @ 1.035
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 10 L = 2.64 G @ 1.035
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 9.26 L = 2.45 G @ 1.009 assuming apparent attenuation of 75 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (needs link)

54.7% American 2-Row 888 grams = 1.96 pounds
36.2% Malted Wheat 587 grams = 1.3 pounds
9.1% Malted Rye 148 grams = 0.33 pounds





Mash Steps

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full-Volume Mash): Saccharifiaction for 90 mins at 66.7 C = 152 F
Water Held Back from Mash: 3.79 L = 1 G




Water Used in a Sparge: 3.79 L = 1 G



Fermentation & Conditioning

Fermentation: Safale US-05






Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer

Sparge mash with room temp water; Add Unmilled 2-Row after, temp should be about 120F; Fill ferm vessel all the way up to ensure no oxy in contact with wort; put in 10 G bev cooler with hot water to maintain wort temp of 120F; add hot water to maintain temp as it drops; remove after 2 days and treat it as regular wort and begin 15 min boil. VIF is set at particular level to ensure that VIB is 3.25G, the amount the ferm vessel can hold to ensure it is filled all the way to the top. If different ferm vessel isused this number can change (ferm vessel is 3G carboy).

BIAB Variations

Water Held Back from Mash: 3.79 L = 1 G
Water Used in a Sparge: 3.79 L = 1 G




Last edited by flhb on 02 Jan 2016, 06:19, edited 1 time in total.
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