I would like to continue with a no chill cube and transfer at a safe temperature, maybe 185 - 190 F, other than that, Joshua, would you recommend a hop schedule for me? Also, would like to try and use up 6 more pounds of Palisade hops, some how.

After the flame out, I can raise and lower the hop spider some to help drive out as much heat as possible and keep the lid off this time. Mostly from what I read it is to limit a "late addition/whirlpool/hop stand" to 40 mins. before a wort chiller is employed to "lock in", stop the alpha acid isomerization reaction thingy.

So, even if I contain the hop debris and squeeze the bag, all the oils and stuff is still doing its thing in the cube until it reaches 155 F?

joshua wrote:MS, as of today, the Best Bitterness, and Flavor, along with Nice Aroma come from.....the recipe used

Bitterness Hops added 5 minute before Flame out, and left for 1 hour or until temps drop below 154F.

Sorry to sound dense, what "recipe used" ?

From the BYO article;
"For low IBU beers, you can add no-boil hops or you can add a tiny bittering charge of hops to help break surface tension of the beer and then add all or the majority of the IBU contribution at knockout, with the 10–15% utilization in mind."

"The second factor to consider is the length of your hop stand. There are no right or wrong answers, but anywhere from 10 minutes to 90 minutes — or even an overnight stand — can be employed."

Hey joshua-the hop guy.

I would like to limit the amount of hops to one pound, so I have come up with this hop bill. Also, per the Basic Brewing broadcast, Kim's lab tested beer came in 14-18 IBU higher than his Beersmith2 software (72 BS : 86-90 LAB), maybe I will be as lucky. , so even though I get a 42 IBU for this IPA, do you think this would be alright? Hopefully it would taste better than my last one.

Maybe this one will taste like a 60 IBU?

IBU's (Tinseth): 41.9
4.2 IBU Palisade Pellets (8%AA) 10 grams = 0.353 ounces at 60 mins
37.6 IBU Palisade Pellets (8%AA) 445 grams = 15.696 ounces at 5 mins

This is how I treated my municipal water for this brew. I had my water tested by ward labs a couple of years ago and it tested low on brewing salts.

I may brew this a 2nd time over the holiday. I've attempted to figure out independently of Rick, how many mins. to enter into the BIABacus for a Flame-out hop addition and letting it 'stand' for about 30 mins. Joshua has given good guidance and links, and based on the byo article, 'homebrewers should figure a 10% utilization of a hop stand from flame-out to 180 degrees F.

This screen shot represents the hop stand, calculated at 13 mins., a 9% utilization, 76 IBU. My BIABacus hop report;
IBU's (Tinseth): 66.7

The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)
4.2 IBU Palisade Pellets (8%AA) 10 grams = 0.353 ounces at 60 mins
62.4 IBU Palisade Pellets (8%AA) 330 grams = 11.64 ounces at 13 mins *** hop stand, 62.4 IBU

Section I
FO/13min = Add hops at flame out/0 minutes. 212-180F Hop Stand for 30 mins before chilling. 13 minute value represents bittering adjustment for hop stand.

I'm chicken to toss in the whole 1 pound bag Any thoughts? This is for a 1.067 OG American IPA. Thanks...

This one is more user friendly and is more aligned with the BIABacus for calculating hop stands;
http://realbeer.com/hops/bcalc_js.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://realbeer.com/hops/research.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This screen shot represents the hop stand, calculated at 13 mins., a 9% utilization, 57 IBU.

Such a crazy brew, I love it.

The IPA I've been working on has a pretty hefty dose for hop stand, but nowhere near this. I suppose scaling up to your size batch though, with 8%AA (been using 14.1%)... my flame out addition would be about 270g. Man up, toss in the rest! :D

I'm gathering that you still no-chill, so I have very little in way of suggestions how to use them. Perhaps do an extended, colder, second hop stand using bag/dental floss/SS nuts into your cube? I don't remember where it is, but I think Joshua mentioned that he had best results adding aroma hops around 120F? Might be worth playing around with the different temperature ranges within the BYO article, considering you have a ton of hops to mess with. I mean, you really don't need to though, that's a hefty charge as it is. I don't think it possible that it will be lacking in aroma, but it would take you to another level of radical to add more.

I'll stick with my 12 minute additions, and use that as an anchor until I get the IPA brewed with a proper water profile, thus eliminating any doubt something else is affecting my bitterness, or lack thereof. Then my palate can take over, and adjust accordingly. I'll bet my utilization is less than 10%, considering I'm doing 5G batches.

Are you still using the water profile above? I'm going to give brun'water's pale ale profile a shot next time around (soon).

Thank you Rick for your input. I am using that water profile again for this 2nd attempt. I have an old Ward Labs report I still base everything off of, so it's best guess and luck.


I think I'll only go this high on IBU's -

Original Gravity (OG): 1.067
IBU's (Tinseth): 63.7
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.95
Colour: 13.7 EBC = 7 SRM
ABV%: 6.61
The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)
4.1 IBU Palisade Pellets (8%AA) 9.6 grams = 0.337 ounces at 60 mins
59.6 IBU Palisade Pellets (8%AA) 315.3 grams = 11.122 ounces at 13 mins *** hop stand

Section I
FO/13min = Add hops at flame out/0 minutes. 212-180F Hop Stand for 30 mins before chilling. 13 minute value represents bittering adjustment for hop stand.

In loving memory of my Dad who passed away April 13th of this year, I plan on brewing this recipe again on July 12, 2014, his birth date.

See post #2; viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2183#p31716

~
[center]BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.[/center]
[center]I Heart Me - American IPA - Batch 6[/center]

Recipe Overview

Brewer: Mad Scientist
Style: 14B
Source Recipe Link:
ABV: 7.3% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.067
IBU's (Tinseth): 67
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 1
Colour: 14.3 EBC = 7.2 SRM
Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 83.1 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 74.9 %


Times and Temperatures
Mash: 90 mins at 65.5 C = 150 F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment: 14 days at 19 C = 66.2 F

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)
The, "Clear Brewing Terminology," thread at http://www.biabrewer.info/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Total Water Needed (TWN): 50.88 L = 13.44 G (3.8 cm kettle headspace)
Strike Water Needed (SWN): 48.83 L = 12.9 G at 66.6 C = 151.8 F (5.5 cm kettle headspace)
Volume of Mash (VOM): 56.99 L = 15.05 G (-1.3 cm kettle of headspace)
Volume into Boil (VIB): 47.26 L = 12.49 G @ 1.059 (6.8 cm kettle headspace)
Volume at Flame-Out (VFO): 41.56 L = 10.98 G (11.5 cm kettle headspace)[EDIT; Actual 12.9 cm kettle headspace]
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 39.96 L = 10.56 G @ 1.067 [EDIT; Actual OG 1.071/5]
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 36 L = 9.51 G @ 1.067
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 34.63 L = 9.15 G @ 1.013 assuming apparent attenuation of 81%[EDIT; Actual VIP was 31.23 L = 8.25 G]
[EDIT; Actual FG was 1.020 - apparent attenuation of 70.8 %]
[EDIT; Actual Evaporation Rate was 4.90 l/hr]
[EDIT; Actual KFL - 2.5 L trub + 3.31 L hop absorbtion = 5.81 L]
[EDIT; Acutal FPL - 0.2 L]
[EDIT; Actual 6.6% ABV]

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)
80.2% Rahr 2 row (3.5 EBC = 1.8 SRM) 8729 grams = 19.24 pounds
13.3% Bress Bonlander Munich (25.2 EBC = 12.8 SRM) 1444 grams = 3.18 pounds
3% Belgian Biscuit (49.2 EBC = 25 SRM) 328 grams = 0.72 pounds
3.5% Great Western C 15 (29.6 EBC = 15 SRM) 377 grams = 0.83 pound

The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)
55.4 IBU Palisade Pellets (8%AA) 127 grams = 4.481 ounces at 60 mins
11.6 IBU Palisade* Pellets (8%AA) 63.5 grams = 2.241 ounces at 12 mins @ Flame-Out

Mash Steps
Mash Type: FVV (Full Volume Variation Mash): for 90 mins at 65.5 C = 150 F
Water Held Back from Mash: 3 L = 0.79 G
Strike Water Needed (SWN): 48.83 L = 12.9 G at 66.6 C = 151.8 F
Mashout for 15 mins at 78 C = 172.4 F
Water Added After Final Lauter: 3 L = 0.79 G

Miscellaneous Ingredients
1.0 Whirfloc (Boil) 5 Mins - Clarity

Chilling & Hop Management Methods
Hopsock Used: Y
Chilling Method: No-Chill (Employed 20 mins after boil end.)

Fermentation & Conditioning
24 day schedule;
[EDIT; Actual Fermentation: Safale US-05 for 18 days at 15 C = 59.0 F]
[EDIT; Actual Crash-Chilled: Yes, for 6 days at 2 C = 35.6 F]
Secondary Used: N
Filtered: N
Serving Temp: 4 C = 39.2 F
Condition for 21 days.
Consume within 3 months.

Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer
*= 0m actual flame out addition. (12 mins. is for bittering calculation. Use main
bag as hop sock, pull and squeeze after 15 mins. of 190-212F hop steep.)

Transferred to no-chill containers.

BIAB Variations
Water Held Back from Mash: 3 L = 0.79 G
Water Added After Final Lauter: 3 L = 0.79 G

[center]Fermentation Temperature and Pressure schedule:[/center]

Pitched: 8-1-2014 at 3:30 PM

Day 1 - 0 PSI @ 59 F
Day 3 - 1 PSI @ 59 F @ 6 PM
Day 4 - 18 PSI @ 59 F @ 9:30 AM
Day 4 - 21 PSI @ 59 F @ NOONTIME
Day 4 - 21 PSI @ 59 F @ 9 PM

Day 5 - (turned knob 4 turns) @ 10 PM

Day 6 - 29 PSI @ 59 F @ NOONTIME

Day 19 - started crash chill @ 10 PM
Day 24 - pressure transferred to serving kegs
(pressure was 23 PSI @ 35 F, 3.72 volume of CO2)

I didn't realise your old man was no longer with us Richard .

If he was still with us, he may ask one thing... "Why are you fermenting for only five days son?"

Looks like he is still with you mate ,
Pat

Per post #34;
*
Mad Scientist - I Heart Me IPA - For Brewday July 12 2014


Brew date: July 11th
Brew #6 using the BIABacus with 'Adjust Auto-Efficiency by 9.0%'.

I did a full-volume mash for 90 minutes.

1. At 30 minutes, my gravity reading was... n/a
2. At 60 minutes, my gravity reading was... 1.056 ; 13.8 brix
3. At 90 minutes, my gravity reading was... 1.057 ; 14.0 brix

Quick Bonus Questions

A. The weight of my grain bill was... 10879 grams ; 23.98 pounds
B. The volume of water I mashed with was... SWN; 48.83 L ; 12.90 G
C. My average mash temperature was... 149.5 F

If you did a Mash-Out (and only if you have time.)

1. To reach a mash-out temp of 76-78 C (169 - 172 F) took (mins)... 21 mins
2. At the start of mash-out, my gravity reading was... n/a

A. After reaching mash-out temp, before pulling the bag, I waited (mins)... 1 mins
B. After I pulled the bag my gravity reading was... n/a

Full-Volume Variations - FVV
After adding my 3.0 L of FVV BEFORE BOIL WATER, the GIB was... 1.058 ; 14.2 brix
*

Wort production went well Friday. It was my first 90 mins. boil.
After adding my FVV water I hit the VIB spot-on with an extra mm of headspace
to spare. I overrode the evaporation rate and set it to 3.8 l/hr. The default
would have worked out nicely for me, as a result, I boiled down an extra 1.6 L.
I have a 1.070 OG instead of a 1.067.



Wort is in my no-chill cubes atm.

Brew #6 - Skimmed the hot break.

Brew #6 - My boil

Link to video; https://flic.kr/p/omAqdR" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry to hear about your father and back problems. It looks like the brew was a success.

JackRussel wrote:It looks like the brew was a success.

Yeah, I hope you had a great day Richard .

I have one question for you as well that I often wonder about with keggle BIAB brewers. Do you ever have any problems pulling the bag through the narrower opening especially with a large grain bill?

Thanks guys.

King PistolPatch doth ponder thy servants tun.

How such a humongous cloth bag cometh from afar,
one asketh?, out of the depths that passeth
upwards beyond the narrowing limited hole?,
chocked full of spent grain, only a cow would love?


Exhibit A
"Kindergarden like" black lines indicates current bag design Exhibit B
Bag pulls out nicely, no problems. Drains well.

Look out, Sir Skink will be on to you!

Thanks for that. Looks like it works really well .

Brew #6 (using the BIABacus) - 2nd Brew of this recipe

This is what I know at this point. It's night #4 of fermentation! ,
and the sample tasted great...

Here are my numbers...
*

Screen shot #1 of the BIABacus I boiled down more than expected, so I wanted to find out how much
water I needed to add to the fermentor, if I chose to. It is the
difference between the actual and estimated evaporation (EVP), from
Section K and Section L, see also Section V.
I measured a 17.2 Brix, on my refractometer, at the time of transfer
between cube and fermentor, so I'm not surprised to have gotten a
1.071/5 in Section M when I entered 2.15 L in Section N,
and Section O balanced to a 1.067 from Section C.

At flame-out I put a small red mark on my sight glass.

I should have also made another mark on my sight glass after I
pulled my hop bag and squeezed it. I won't know what a 190 grams
of hop pellets absorbs until I make this again. The best I can
figure it's 3.31 L of hop absorption, at most 4 L.

I measured 2.5 L of trub (KFL) that did not go into my fermentors.


Screen shot #2c of the BIABacus (Investigation Mode - Section M, N & O)
But, I didn't add any top up water in the fermentor.

Screen shot #2d of the BIABacus (My Actuals) I used Tool #10, from a beta version, to come up with my
(VIF) volume of 32 L, actual volume.
I entered 1.071/5 for my specific gravity, it displays as 1.072.

My 2nd attempt of this recipe starts on post #34 - Actuals posted in RED.

This was a fail, IMO, based solely on the apparent attenuation of 70.8% for a Fermentis Safale US-05 which should produce an 81% attenuation. The first attempt I got 75.4%.

On one of my Rogue Dead Guy clone brews, I got an 81.5% with the same yeast. Like Rick, I do rehydrate the yeast and use 1.5 packs per 5G.

I am learning to blend this beer with a Budweiser to make a 0.5 L tankard.

Volume into Packaging (VIP) Actuals

[center]Attenuation analysis of my two brews[/center]

[center]***********
First Brew
***********[/center]
Mad Scientist - I Heart Me IPA - For Brewday July 12 2013

83% Rahr 2 row (3.5 EBC = 1.8 SRM)
10.6% Bress Bonlander Munich (25.2 EBC = 12.8 SRM)
3% Belgian Biscuit (49.2 EBC = 25 SRM)
3.5% Great Western C 15 (29.6 EBC = 15 SRM)

My average mash temperature was... 67.5 C = 153.5 F
To reach a mash-out temp of 76-78 C (169 - 172 F) took (mins)... 16 mins
After reaching mash-out temp, before pulling the bag, I waited (mins)... 15 mins <=== 'crystal added'
Added GW C15 after the 90 mins. mash

Fermentation& Conditioning
Fermention: Safale US-05 for 4 days at 18.5 C = 65.3 F
Fermention: continued... for 2 days at 19.5 C = 67.1 F
Diacetyl Rest: 10 days at 21.8 C = 71.2 F
Crash-Chilled: 17 days at 00.5 C = 33.0 F

OG: 1.068
FG: 1.016
Apparent Attenuation: 77.61%
ABV: 6.9%

[center]***********
Second Brew
***********[/center]
Mad Scientist - I Heart Me IPA - For Brewday July 11 2014

80.2% Rahr 2 row (3.5 EBC = 1.8 SRM)
13.3% Bress Bonlander Munich (25.2 EBC = 12.8 SRM)
3% Belgian Biscuit (49.2 EBC = 25 SRM)
3.5% Great Western C 15 (29.6 EBC = 15 SRM)

My average mash temperature was... 65.3 C = 149.5 F

FOUR DEGREES LOWER SHOULD HAVE ATTENUATED MORE, NOT...

To reach a mash-out temp of 76-78 C (169 - 172 F) took (mins)... 21 mins
After reaching mash-out temp, before pulling the bag, I waited (mins)... 1 mins

Fermentation & Conditioning
Fermentation: Safale US-05 for 18 days at 15 C = 59.0 F
Crash-Chilled: Yes, for 6 days at 2 C = 35.6 F

OG: 1.071/5
FG: 1.020
Apparent Attenuation: 73.05 %
ABV: 6.8%

John Palmer wrote:The temperature most often quoted for mashing is about 153°F. This is a compromise between the two temperatures that the two enzymes favor. Alpha works best at 154-162°F, while beta is denatured (the molecule falls apart) at that temperature, working best between 131-150°F.

What do these two enzymes and temperatures mean to the brewer? The practical application of this knowledge allows the brewer to customize the wort in terms of its fermentability. A lower mash temperature, less than or equal to 150°F, yields a thinner bodied, drier beer. A higher mash temperature, greater than or equal to 156°F, yields a less fermentable, sweeter beer. This is where a brewer can really fine tune a wort to best produce a particular style of beer.

I hope that just because no one is replying here MS, that you don't think people aren't reading/interested. Keep up the good work mate .

One question... Are you liking the ability to weigh a vessel to give you a volume (as in your second last post above)?

One observation... You know how we often talk about respecting and disrespecting numbers? It's nice to see your FG's of 1.015 and 1.020 above. Often brewers think their beer is not finished at these gravities but it often is. FG formulas are very primitive and depend on many factors. For example...

Forgetting the obvious fact that there will be differences in your water and grain quality from one brew day to the next, there are other differences such as fermentation temps and length of crash-chill. Many things come into play.

...

If you had done those brews side by side on the same day and treated them in exactly the same manner except for mash temp, then you probably would see a difference in attenuation. Many other things coming into play here.

Brewing eh .

Keep up the great recording mate ,
PP

I concluded that it was not the mash temperature. I attempered in the wrong direction, I slowly added 35C yeast into 15C wort, instead of 15C wort into hot 35C yeast.

Found this;
" We also recommend that you attemperate the rehydrated yeast to with in 15F of the wort before adding to the wort. Warm yeast into cold wort will cause many of the yeast to produce petite mutants that will never grow or ferment properly and will cause them to produce H2S. The attemperation can take place over a very brief period by adding, in increments, a small amount of the cooler wort to the rehydrated yeast. "

PistolPatch wrote:One question... Are you liking the ability to weigh a vessel to give you a volume (as in your second last post above)?

My digital scale capacity is [EDITED 20 kg / 44 LB , it maxed out as I filled my fermentors with 16 L of wort]. If I have had 18 L, my digital scale would have ERRORED OUT.

At least you can use the scales to calibrate the fermentors (carboys?)

35 C / 95 F sounds quite warm for re-hydrating but glad to see you found that acclimatisation process error. Be interesting to see if it made that much difference to FG on a second batch but you won't be doing that again will you?


PP

This is the recipe I'll brew on Friday, day after turkey day  :shoot: .  I bought a pound of the 2016 Centennial leaf crop hops.

I'm breaking in the new kettle and a new bag.


I Heart Me - American IPA - Batch 11

Brewer: Mad Scientist
Style: 14B
Source Recipe Link:
ABV: 6.1% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)
Original Gravity (OG): 1.063
IBU's (Tinseth): 55
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.87
Colour: 14.1 EBC = 7.2 SRM

Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 78.2 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 68 %
Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full-Volume Mash):  Sacharification

Times and Temperatures
Mash: 90 mins at 66 C = 150.8 F
Boil: 90 min

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)
Total Water Needed (TWN): 59.98 L = 15.85 G
Strike Water Needed (SWN): 61.17 L = 16.16 G
Volume of Mash (VOM): 70.32 L = 18.58 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 54.91 L = 14.51 G @ 1.053/5
Volume at Flame-Out (VFO): 46.66 L = 12.33 G  with hop bag(s) in
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 44.86 L = 11.85 G @ 1.063 (Less 4% shrinkage of VFO)
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 39 L = 10.3 G @ 1.063 (Set in Section B, by brewer)

Kettle to Fermentor loss (KFL):  5.86 L = 1.55 G (Estimated in Section X)
Estimated Wort Retained By Hops Loss: 1.81 L
214 grams hops * 8.5 (factor) = 1.81 L hop absorption
Estimated Volume into Fermentor: 37.19 L
Estimated Evaporation Rate: 5.50 L/Hr
Estimated Absorption Rate: 0.60 L/Kg

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)
84% Rahr 2 row (3.5 EBC = 1.8 SRM)   10254 grams = 22.61 pounds
10% Wey Munich type 2 (25 EBC = 12.7 SRM)   1221 grams = 2.69 pounds
6% Crisp Caramalt (52 EBC = 26.4 SRM)   732 grams = 1.61 pounds
Total Grain Bill weight 12207 grams = 26.91 pounds

The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)
23.4 IBU Centennial Flowers (9.9%AA)  56.2 grams = 1.983 ounces at 45 mins
19.6 IBU Centennial Flowers (9.9%AA)  56.2 grams = 1.983 ounces at 30 mins
12.1 IBU Centennial * Flowers (9.9%AA)  99.2 grams = 3.499 ounces at 7 mins
* = represents actual flame out addition. This is calculated at 7 mins. boil time,
at a 15 mins. hop stand for approximately a 6% utilization rate.
Use paint strainer bag as hop sock, pull and squeeze after 15 mins. of 100 - 88°C hop stand.)
**hop sock stays in at boil end, add flame out hops in hop sock












Mash Steps
Mashout for 1 mins at 77 C = 170.6 F

Chilling & Hop Management Methods
Hopsock Used: Y
Whirlpool: 1 mins. after boil end. (set for calculation purpose)
Chilling Method: No-Chill (Employed after hop stand ends.)

Fermentation & Conditioning
Fermentation: Safale US-05 for 14 days at 19.0 C = 66.2 F
Secondary Used: N
Crash-Chilled: Y
Filtered: N
Serving Temp: 4 C = 39.2 F
Condition for 21 days.
Consume within 3 months.

Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer
RO water starting with 6.9 pH and 7.3 ppm Bicarbonate
Barley Crusher setting = 0.027

Bru'n Water settings
Targeting SO4/Cl ratio of 3.76 Pale Ale Profile using ...
20.6 g - Gypsum
5.9 g - Calcium cloride
5.9 ml - Lactic acid (88%)

Finished water profile as follows ...
109 ppm Calcium
 0 ppm Magnesium
 8 ppm Sodium
196 ppm Sulfate
52 ppm Chloride
-54 ppm Bicarbonate

Targeting 5.2 mash pH