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Volume Into Fermentor off. Do I add water?

Post #1 made 11 years ago
by dkrolak
The was my 2nd BIAB. I brew a Cream Ale. I use the recipe from this site posted by Trevor77. The recipe was originally from Northern Brewers. Below is my recipe report and attached is my BIABacus file containing my final numbers. I anticipated a Volume into Fermentor (VIF)=21L, but ended up with only 15.1L. Should I add water to my fermentor to bring it up to 21L? I am assuming I lost the volume to evaporation. I brewed outdoors and the temperature today was around 104F/40C and I did not change the the default evap rate in Section X of the BIABacu. Is there a way to estimate the evaporation rate base on the outdoor temperature and/or humidity?

[center]BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3K RECIPE REPORT[/center]
[center]BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.[/center]
[center](Please visit http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the latest version.)[/center]
[center]Northern Brewer Cream Ale - Batch 2[/center]

Recipe Overview

Brewer: Trevor
Style: Cream Ale
Source Recipe Link:
ABV: 4.1% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.045
IBU's (Tinseth): 25.5
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.57
Colour: 12.1 EBC = 6.1 SRM

Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 86.5 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 78 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 90 mins at 65.5 C = 149.9 F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment: 14 days at 16 C = 60.8 F

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)
The, "Clear Brewing Terminology," thread at http://www.biabrewer.info/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Total Water Needed (TWN): 33.44 L = 8.83 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 32.11 L = 8.48 G @ 1.034
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 23.31 L = 6.16 G @ 1.045
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 21 L = 5.55 G @ 1.045
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 19.45 L = 5.14 G @ 1.014 assuming apparent attenuation of 70 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (needs link)

87.5% Pale 2 Row (3.5 EBC = 1.8 SRM) 3581 grams = 7.9 pounds
9.4% Honey Malt (58.5 EBC = 29.7 SRM) 384 grams = 0.85 pounds
3.1% Belgian Biscuit Malt (63.9 EBC = 32.4 SRM) 128 grams = 0.28 pounds






The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)

25.5 IBU Cluster Pellets (7.2%AA) 31.1 grams = 1.097 ounces at 60 mins








Mash Steps

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full-Volume Mash) for 90 mins at 65.5 C = 149.9 F





Mashout for for 10 mins at 78 C = 172.4 F
#VALUE!



Miscellaneous Ingredients

1/2 Tab Whirfloc (Boil) 5 Mins - Clarity






Chilling & Hop Management Methods

Hopsock Used: y

Chilling Method: Immersion Chiller (Employed 0 mins after boil end.)

Fermentation & Conditioning

Fermentation: Safale US-05 for 14 days at 16 C = 60.8 F

Secondary Used: no
Crash-Chilled: no
Filtered: no
Req. Volumes of CO2: 2.5
Serving Temp: 4 C = 39.2 F
Condition for 14 days.


Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer







#VALUE!
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Last edited by dkrolak on 30 Jun 2014, 17:01, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #2 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
k, nice recording of your numbers :salute:.

In Section N, if you type 1.7 l beside 'Extra Water Added to Fermentor', this will dilute your 1.050 wort down to the desired 1.045* (see 2nd line of Section O.) So do that.

Don't be worried if your evaporation is higher than normal. It is much better at teh end of the day to be diluting a stronger wort than the reverse. On nearly all ny brews, i end u doig a bit of dilution. Main thing for now is to keep measuring as you have been for five brews and then you can look for things you might want to fine-tune. See if you can measure the mash volume on your next one as well as this cn be a good inital check of water and grain added.

Good stuff!
PP

*Just noticed that in Section B you have 1.0-40 on the left and 1.045 o the right. That is unusual but if you want 1.040 then increase the 1.7 until 1.040 appears in Section O.
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Post #3 made 11 years ago
by dkrolak
Thanks PP

Just completed your recommendation and added 1.7 liters to my primary frementer. In addition I now understand how to use Section N if my VIF is either low or high.

So in the future if
1) my VIF is low use Section N to determine amount of additional water needed to reach target OG.
2) is VIF is high use Section N to determine amount of DME needed to reach target OG

What are the recommendations to minimize volume loss due to evaporation?

Thanks again.
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Post #4 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
Try and avoid scenario 2. Senario 1 is always much better. This is why I set my evaporation for the lowest it ever gets. In other words, I nearly always get less volume and higher gravity on a brew day.

My pots the same diameter as yours and I usually gt about the same evaporation 10 L but I leave mine as the default for reason above even when I single batch. If you are always doing single batches, then you could buy a large cheap stainless bowl on the wort and this will lower the evap rate. This is the only thing you can do. Don't go partially covering the kettle with lids!

;)
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Post #5 made 11 years ago
by jhough
dk , I have the same problem on my larger brews and usually have to add some top up water to bring it all in line. No one has complained about the taste , of course not in any competition. Its all good as long as your brewing quality beer !!
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Post #6 made 11 years ago
by dkrolak
My Cream Ale has been fermenting 9 days and the FG is 1.014 which right on the money with my recipe. To clarify this beer should I ...

1) move to a secondary for a week, then bottle

2) do not move to secondary, but cold crash for 2-3 days then bottle

3) Leave in primary another week and bottle.

4) bottle now.

Thanks
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Post #7 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
Okay, a few things here...

Firstly I keg and so forum members who bottle need to answer your main questions. All I can say are...

1 and 2 above will clear the beer but that is all they can do and both these methods have considerable 'energy' requirements. (e.g., The first needs labour and risks infection whilst the second requires refrigeration and then 're-heating'.)

3 - No harm done.

4 - That would be fine if I trusted the following sentence, "My Cream Ale has been fermenting 9 days and the FG is 1.014 which right on the money with my recipe."

Your FG estimates from a brewing program should not be trusted in any way. They are, in their accuracy, as trustworthy as colour estimations. At most, they are a simple indication. Never rely on that estimate.

A lot of idiots out their will tell you that such and such a recipe is done and ready to be bottled when it reaches a FG of x.xxx. That is not correct at all.

I have to race. I've answered many of your previous questions. Were those answers I gave you good? [EDIT: Had you mixed up with someone else sorry dkr. See my next post ;)]

:peace:
Last edited by PistolPatch on 09 Jul 2014, 16:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #8 made 11 years ago
by alymere
Do you like to batch prime or add the sugar to the bottles?

If I was adding sugar to the bottles I'd let it settle out another week then bottle.

If batch priming I'd leave it another week then I'd rack it to a secondary, batch prime and bottle.

This has worked fine for me on the dozens of extract kits and the 9 all grain batches that I've made.
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Post #9 made 11 years ago
by dkrolak
Thanks PP & Alymere

I batch prime so I'll take your advice. Leave in primary another week or so, then transfer to secondary and bottle.

Thanks for your patience answering all my questions,
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Post #10 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
dkrolak,

Also remember that when you batch prime. Have the full amount of beer required. (19 ltr - 5 gal)? When I used to bottle I never seemed to get it right? Too much carbonation or to little? Sometimes I got it right during my first year of brewing. When I started brewing I did everything according to the book. I had better results. When I got more practiced with brewing my carbonation quality dropped!

The problem was I had to much wort or to little. I always measured the corn sugar (used for priming) I measured exactly 5 ounces each time. I didn't think that when I had 4.5 gallons or 5.5 that I should compensate for the difference? What a dumb ass! When I realized that was the reason for over carbed and under carbed bottles. I adjusted either my wort with sterile water or the amount of priming sugar.

This is just a minor note that may be helpful to you or anyone else reading this thread.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

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Post #11 made 11 years ago
by alymere
Good point Bob, all the flat beer needs priming, including any that doesn't get bottled. Don't just count the bottles that you are filling.
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Post #12 made 11 years ago
by dkrolak
I use the BIABacus section to calculate how much sugar to bulk prime. I transfer my beer to a marked bottling bucket to determine its volume. I input 2.5 volumes of CO2 in section H and my volume in section Q and the BIABacus determines the among of priming sugar. I boil the sugar then add to beer stirring well. Is this correct?
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Post #13 made 11 years ago
by nosco
Stirring well is good. Some info tells you that the whirlpool action of the beer going into the bottling bucket is enough to mix in the sugar syrup. I had 2 batches where the first lot of bottles where over carbed.

On first batch I boiled the bjebus out of the wort. Of course I ended having to add water to it but it also ended up being a very clear great looking beer. My 3rd beer which I over compensated and only just had a rolling boil has chill haze. I always leave my beer in primary for 3 weeks and crash chill for 2 or 3 days. I will have to experiment with vigorous boils in future.
"Gentleman, when I first started Reynholm Industries, I had just two things in my possession: a simple dream, and six million pounds.
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Post #14 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
BobBrews wrote:I didn't think that when I had 4.5 gallons or 5.5 that I should compensate for the difference? What a dumb ass!
:lol: Good on ya Bob!
dkrolak wrote:Thanks for your patience answering all my questions
All good dkr. In my last post, I actually had you mixed up with someone that I and a few others had spent a fair amount of time on and we never heard back from them :P. Sorry mate - too many beers probably :). I won't get you mixed up again and will add an edit to my last post!

hey let us know how the BIABacus priming formula works out for you. It is one of the things we'd love more feedback on. Thanks.

;)
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 09 Jul 2014, 16:42, edited 1 time in total.
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