First recipe creation (started as Hop Theif 6 clone)

My last brew was on the 21st of July (yes it really was) so Im am keen to get brewing again. For the first time in 8 years I have boxing day off which this year means a 4 day weekend . The plan is to do 3 brews in a week or so. One of which will be my own recipe (kinda) a James Squire Hop Theif 6 inspired Pale Ale. I borrowed the idea from this link on AHB. Im not really trying to do a clone but I figure using the same hops, Simcoe and Columbus, it will get me in the ball park.

I am going to first wort hop the bittering hops becuase with some of the JS HT6's I have had I found the bitterness to be a bit harsh, maybe because it was brewed a fair while ago. But I had some last week and did not find that to be the case so maybe I cant trust my taste buds. However I dont think my brew with last very long so I guess this is not a problem so then I am FW hopping just for the hell of it since Ive never done it before.

So obviously you want a nice ballance between malt flavour and a big hop flavour. The Munich I hope will ad the malt flavour on top of the pale malt. The crystal I think is just for colour. The wheat is there for head retention but Im not sure if it will be needed. The acidulated malt is there to hopefully help bring out the hops. The water in my area is very soft but low in calcium. Read this link. Instead of using acid malt I was thinking about maybe putting in a tea spoon of Calcium Chloride. I made the APA from BCS awhile back and thought it was a bit thin in flavour. Im hoping either CA or acid malt willl improve my brew. I have messed around with Brun Water but I dont have a set of scales to messure chemicals out accuratley.

I was going to ad flame out hop additions into the cube but as Rick mentions in this post if I am going to pitch the next day then there is no point using a cube plus I can ad the flame out hops at a better temp. It would eliminate the need for a hop stand and whirlpool in the recipe. I have never fermented in the cube but I should learn to but I dont think I can manage any crazy krausen atmplus I would like to pitch at fermenting temps and my kettle doesnt fit in my ferm fridge and I never know what the temps will be on the day. Decisions

Also Im not sure what hop quantities I should use. I had the IBU's set at 70 but then I read on the AHB thread that Hop thief was 40. Its supposed to be a pretty hop forward beer, maybe closer to an AIPA so I up'd it back up to 70.

Questions.

1 .If im first wort hopping should I pull the hop bag out after 60 min or just leave it in for the whole 90 min boil.

2. Should I back off the hops a bit to balance with the grain bill

3. Do I need to use the wheat?

4. Should I use acidulated and how much? I guess that answer would depnd on my water.....

5. Because I havnt brewed for a long time I havnt used 1.3T and Im a bit behind in info regard it. What is natural priming in Sect. C all about?

Any other advice or opinions are welcome of course

phew! Between mowing the lawn going to the shops and keeping a 2 year old amused it took me about 8 hours to write this post

Cheers.


OOops..the recipe would help.

[center]BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3T RECIPE REPORT[/center]
[center]BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.[/center]
[center](Please visit http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the latest version.)[/center]
[center]Dad Gum American Pale Ale - Batch 1[/center]

Recipe Overview

Brewer: Noss & Sons Lolly Creek Brewery
Style: #10A American Pale Ale
Source Recipe Link:
ABV: 5.2% (assumes any priming sugar used is diluted.)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.054
IBU's (Tinseth): 70
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 1.3
Colour:

Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 82.6 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 74.4 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 90 mins at 64 C = 147.2 F
Boil: 90 min
Ferment: 10 days at 17 C = 62.6 F

Volumes & Gravities
(Note that VAW below is the Volume at Flame-Out (VFO) less shrinkage.)
The, "Clear Brewing Terminology," thread at http://www.biabrewer.info/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Total Water Needed (TWN): 35.51 L = 9.38 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 32.41 L = 8.56 G @ 1.038
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 22.2 L = 5.86 G @ 1.054
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 20 L = 5.28 G @ 1.054
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 19.26 L = 5.09 G @ 1.014 assuming apparent attenuation of 75 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (needs link)

63.6% JW Trad Ale 3118 grams = 6.87 pounds
9.1% Bestmalz Pale Wheat 445 grams = 0.98 pounds
18.2% JW Dark Munich 891 grams = 1.96 pounds
5.5% JW Dark Crystal 267 grams = 0.59 pounds
3.6% Bestmalz Acidulated 178 grams = 0.39 pounds




The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)

23.7 IBU Columbus Pellets (15.9%AA) 13.5 grams = 0.477 ounces at 60 mins (First Wort Hopped)
19.4 IBU Simcoe Pellets (13%AA) 13.5 grams = 0.477 ounces at 60 mins (First Wort Hopped)
12.9 IBU Columbus Pellets (15.9%AA) 20.3 grams = 0.715 ounces at 10 mins
14 IBU Simcoe Pellets (13%AA) 27 grams = 0.953 ounces at 10 mins
0 IBU Columbus Pellets (15.9%AA) 27 grams = 0.953 ounces at 0 mins
0 IBU Simcoe Pellets (13%AA) 27 grams = 0.953 ounces at 0 mins
0 IBU Columbus Pellets (15.9%AA) 27 grams = 0.953 ounces at mins (Dry Hopped)
0 IBU Simcoe Pellets (13%AA) 27 grams = 0.953 ounces at mins (Dry Hopped)

Mash Steps

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full-Volume Mash): Saccharifiaction for 90 mins at 64 C = 147.2 F

Strike Water Needed (SWN): 36.21 L = 9.57 G 64.6 C = 148.3 F









Miscellaneous Ingredients








Chilling & Hop Management Methods

Hopsock Used: y (Pulled 0 mins after boil end.)
Whirlpool: -5 mins after boil end.
Chilling Method: no chill (Employed -10 mins after boil end.)

Fermentation & Conditioning

Fermentation: Wyeast American Ale 1272 for 10 days at 17 C = 62.6 F
Diacetyl Rest: 4 days at 21 C = 69.8 F
Secondary Used: n
Crash-Chilled: y
Filtered: n
Req. Volumes of CO2: 2.5
Serving Temp: 5 C = 41 F
Condition for ? days.
Consume within ? months.

Special Instructions/Notes on this Beer

Whirlpool at -5 mins indicates that I let it sit for 5 mins after flame out to let the thermals settle and then start to slowly empty the the kettle into the no chill cube at 10 mins after flame out. 0 minute hop additions are in the cube.

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

Im still reading through this hefty post from Joshua but it will take me awhile so I still need opinions

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From United States of America
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

Thanks agian Rick

Erring on the side of caution I have already backed the IBU's of to 50. I set the first wort hop to 60min and dropped the hop wieghts a bit. I have read that Columbus can be "pungent/dank" which I might be confusing for higher IBU's so better too little than too much to start with. The adjustments give me a BU:GU of 0.926.

I think this beer is more of an American Amber than an APA which apperently is also called Red Ale which got me thinking maybe I could put some Caraed in it. So my grain bill is now,

80 % Pale Ale
10 % Dark Munich
5 % Dark Crystal
5 % Carared

Caraed also helps with head retention apparently. Plus being a red ale will hopefully help me think of a better name. I have a mate who's a really good illustrator who said he can do a label for me. I just hope the Carared wont make it too sweet with the lower IBU's. Im using Joe White Pale Ale. Maybe I should use a better quality malt but Ill try this for now.

Clearly I have a lot to learn about brewing water so I decided not to use any additions for now but I have ordered some .01 scales and I'll get some litmus paper from the brew shop so I can at least check the PH of the mash against Brun Water. Ill get a (not too expensive) PH meter when I can.

It is going to be a very busy 4 days. I am trying to finish the collar on my keezer and brew 2 beers plus all the xmas goings on.....but Im looking forward to it. Im going to order my grains now so I hope this recipe is ok

Cheers.

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From United States of America
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

So I go to the HBS to pick up the ingredients and some keezer parts and they have no Simcoe . So since I have little experience with hops the guy at the shop makes a quick selection for me. So now my beer has Columbus, Cascade, Ella and Vic Secret.

I really have no idea what Im doing except what the guy at the shop told me quickly and what I can read on the net. So im gonna bump the FW Columbus up a wee bit and ad in a little bit of Ella with it. About 10g's of everything at 10, VS, Ella and Cascade for late hopping and what ever is left over (not to much Columbus) for Dry Hopping. I have seen post's but couldnt find any info on how to use extra hops that wont fit into the biabicus. By the time any one reads this I will be underway so I guess I will just have to wing. Should be interesting.

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Canada
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

That is a cool label .

And congrats on your first recipe creation nosco . Short on time but your BIABacus looked really well filled out and I know Rick would have made sure nothing was out of line so you should be in for something tasty .

PP

• • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

The beer is finished and Im very happy with the result but I am probably bias. The recipe was a bit different to what it started out as but it turned out alright, with some help. I dont know if its an APA or an AIPA or an AAA but its a pretty good beer. Experts may have a different opinion but since I dont know any experts I can say its a good beer .

BUT obviously being V1.0 of Max the Red it needs some work to turn it into a great beer. I was thinking that 65c would make for a refreshing session beer, which it did but didnt do much for flavour balance. I think Rick may have hinted at this when he said that 65c is a "very low mash temp". In BCS the APA, AIPA and AAA all mash at 68 which would have been a better starting point for the recipe. I should have read that part before I brewed. I think I was trying to keeep the mouth feel pretty thin but that came at the expence of malt flavour. Please correct me if my thinking is wrong.

I wanted the beer to have a bit (heaps) of red. I know I should'nt be concerned with colour with my first recipe (and for basing a recipe on)but as you can see from the pics it definitely has some red in it from the Carared. Plus I named the beer Max the Red so I have to now . I ended up going with 10% carared and 10% dark Munich (ill post the final recipe file). Purely for the colour I would add 20-30g of chocolate malt to try and bring out the red.

So first off for V1.1 I would mash at 68c and add a bit of chocolate malt. Then with a bit more of a malt backbone ( if im correct in my thinking) I could adjust the grain bill. Do I need the Munich? With the chocolate thats 5 malts, too many? Could I use 20% Caraed in place of Munich? Even before I start messing with that I think Marris Otter might be a better base malt. So many choices.

I really like the choice of hops (that Geoff at G&G made for me) but I could dial the varieties back a bit to concentrate on the malt and then change the hops later . I dry hopped for 5 days and after 2 weeks in the keg the aroama is fading fast. So I could dry hop for longer with more hops next time which would give the beer more time to condition. Apparently (so the internet says) more than a week or so give's a grassy flavour so more time is needed to condition. Its a bit cloudy as you can see from the pics, I guess from the dry hopping. I used a crappy hop bag from the LHBS so next time ill use my swiss voil boil hop bag.

Ill use BCS for any other beers I wanna make (maybe ) and stick to developing this recipe. So many brews, so little time......

Cheers.

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From United States of America
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

I had another look in BCS and the mash temps are actually 67c for the APA, 68c for the caramel APA, 68c for the amber and 65c for the AIPA. Theres also a West Coast Red ale in there that I totally missed

Researching amber/red ale recipes is a bit hard as alot of them have lovibond rated crystal malts in them which means nothing to me. I guess its just light, medium and dark. Theres also a Red IPA which I didnt know existed and I really want to drink one or 2. I need to get out more. Im hoping to brew it again in March so I have a bit of time to think about it. After a few samples of my BCS Cali Common I think Maris Otter might be too much (malt flavour and colour) so I am thinking....

3.5kg Briess Pale Ale
1kg Munich II Weyermann
.5kg Carared
.2 Caraamber
Ill mash at 68 which with my current setup will be somewhere between 67-68

I will get a bit of Carafa Special III to adjust the colour as Rick suggested but I dont think Ill need it. It might push it over too much.

Im am rethinking the hops too maybe. There was a bit of a melon kind of flavour that I didnt like alot. Its not bad but Id like something different. I still want to try Simcoe and Im thinking Galaxy off the the top of my head. Without alot of experience its a bit hard to choose. Only one way to find out. Version 1.2 is looking more like vers 2.

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

Been reading your posts as you do them and apologies that I didn't have time to say congrats on the brew .

A few quick points...

1. I think 68 C is too high a mash temp.

2. Forget colour. You can't taste or smell colour. Colour is enjoyable to the eye only. In other words, don't build a recipe based on colour. Build it on taste and aroma - the colour should just be an enjoyable side-effect. In other words, stout is black as a side-effect of some roasted, toasted grains being used in the bill. A few drops of black food coloring does not make stout!

3. Your hop bill is too complicated and I think you are seeing this now. Your last brew will not tell you at all what hop variety/s and what addition time/s resulted in the flavour you did not like.

...

If you have an immersion chiller (and maybe even if you don't), start brewing APA's and IPA's without dry hopping. Focus your hop additions at 60, 15 and 1 minute. That will teach you the base of bittering, flavour and aroma. It's really important to have a base to work from I reckon.

...

In your last post above, if posting grain weights without giving a VAW figure (or any volume figure) it is better to post those grains as percentages. Maybe edit your post above with the VAW and the percentages? That gives the most info possible.

Also, can you explain what type of melonm it is you didn't like? Rockmelon, watermelon, John Lennon? . This might help someone tell you, "Don't use that hop!!!"

Looks like you are having fun nosco. Great detail above so anything I've posted here is just nit-picking ,
PP

• • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

No apolgies needed Pat. Any time/advice you or anyone can give is a bonus. Im finding that just writing about it gets me thinking about different approaches to the recipe.

1. Im guessing that you say 68c (154f) is too high becuase it adds a little too much body and unfermentable sugars making the beer a bit too malt sweet? Thats my basic theory version of it. I have been thinking about Ricks comment

Rick wrote:but you never know how the yeast will attenuate in the end. You could end up with another dry beer

. My thinking was that yeast, depending on the strain and malts used, would eat the sugars produced from a low mash temp more than a high mash temp. If a yeast attenuates well then you get a dry beer but that would depend on how much fermentables you give it.? I really need to read HTB again so I can stop sounding like a thick head Also I read another of the posts you made recently Pat about checking the mash temp more often. Ive only been checking at 45min. I need to pay more attention to the mash. So a well monitored 67c? Depending on the grain bill.....


2. Yes I know I should forget the colour. A red ale sounds cool so I got sucked in. If I was making a brown porter the it wouldnt be an issue. No one has ever said I want to make a beer really brown. Max the Red is looking a bit more amber now but its a very nice amber


3. Im thinking Simcoe and either Chinook or Galaxy now. All are hops I have never tried. I have a long way to go to learn ingredients.


I dont have an immersion chille because I broke the bank on the keezer even with 2nd hand Celli's off eVilBay. But I agree with no dry hopping for now. I need to get the basics of the recipe down firsts and then maybe Id like to do a big dry hop to give a bit of conditioning time. No point spending on ingredients that are'nt needed yet and perhaps a well timed big late addition could make a tasty and aromatic beer without DHing.


It was a rock mellon, cantaloupe kinda flavour that I didnt like. My hunch is Ella. It definitely was'nt John Lennon. I heard he was an asshole and I would have been able to pick that in the aroma of the hops


Im using BeerSmith to work out the recipe. 1. because I paid for it and I need to use it for something and 2. because it has all the ingredients that my LHBS has. It doesnt work woth the scroll wheel on my mouse and the OK button doesnt work with the Enter key on the keyboard. A major oversite IMHO. Im gonna scale it with Biabicus of course.



so for a 20lt batch (19lt into the keg) my grains are,

3.5 Breiss pale ale %67.3
1kg Weyermann Munich II %19.2
.5kg Carared %9.6
.2 Caraamber %3.8

Its too late to think any more...... Ill think about malts some more tomorrow

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

• • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Canada
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From United States of America
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

That makes sense Rick. It was a bit of a silly question really. I almost answered the question in the question itself I have decided to use us05 on the next brew as its pretty nuetral so I can concertrait on the other ingredients.


I'll keep that info on galaxy in mind thanks Goulaigan. I like the sound of something fruity mixed with some piney and/or resiny flavours. But im only going by flavour descriptions off the internet so Ill have to find out more before I make a decision.


If I go with the grain bill a posted above I think Ill back off on the munich. Maybe .5-.75 of a kg. The caramalt's are a bit over %10 so ill back them off a bit too. Then ill bump up the base malt to stick with desired ABV%.


I have been thinking that if im using Briess Pale Ale and Im brewing some kind of American Amber then maybe I should use all American malts. I'll check that out next.

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

Ok how about this. For a 20lt into fermentor (batch size),

Breiss Pale Ale 77.4%
Victory 10.8%
Breiss Caramel 60l 6.5%
CaraAmber 4.3%
Carafa Special III 1.1%

Mashed at a very carefully monitored 67c/152f

Looking at the Amber Ale and the West Coast Blaster in BCS they are a bit similar but have munich as well Maybe too much for starters.

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0

Yes I am definitely getting ahead of myself cwier. The boss is letting me brew this Sunday so I can brew the Amber ale from BCS, or my closest approximation of it. Im picking up the grains on Saturday and it just happens that they are doing a demo with all malts from Gladfeild, a New Zealand company and they are brewing "an Italian Style Red Lager "la Rossa" with tomato, basil and garlic and an American Imerial Mild - both showcasing Gladfeild specialties". Of the 5 Gladfeild malts they are now selling 3 of them are described as red or orange/red in colour. So I should be learnign a bit about red malts and how to use tomato, basil and garlic in brews Very looking forward to this weekend .


Sorry Pat I'll try and forget about colour eventually.


Thanks for the link cweir. Heaps of good info. That recipe is very similar to the West Coast Blaster. I dont think I would like (at this stage) to brew a high ABV beer with that much hop flavour. Id rather drink it fresh and that would take me a long time to get through since my mates dont like hoppy beers or any kind of beer with flavour I obviosly have no idea about how to use ingredients yet Making up recipes is alot more fun than just using someone else's, even if they are really good so modifying is the next best thing. Maybe a West Coast Blaster or an Evil Twin with a lower mash temp and a lowr ABV (thanks BIABicus) might be the next research brew.

Eventually the recipe will have to be 100% my own though, with advice of course .

• • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia
  • Quote
• • • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0
    • 0