First AG, Mini-BIAB stovetop - recipe review request

Post #1 made 11 years ago
So a bit of background: I love beer, brewed from extracts in college, am having a stressful time at work and thought that getting back into brewing would make for a good distraction. So with minimum research, I bought a 1 gal (4L) BIAB kit. At the brew supply store, I quickly looked up a recipe for 90min Dogfish Head IPA Clone (5gallon, see below) and, with the help of the owner, bought the ingredients I thought I would need to brew.

Once I got home and started researching on http://www.biabrewer.info/ I felt overwhelmed and realized I really didn’t know what I was doing. Having poked around the site for a couple of days, downloading The Calculator and the BIABacus, I came up with the following “recipe conversion” based on the clone recipe below. Any suggestions, tips, etc would be greatly appreciated particularly with respect to starting volume of water, length and temp of fermentation (though the temp will be constrained to room temp, unless there are easy and cheap suggestions to modify the temp), and when to add priming sugar.

If this is not the appropriate forum, I apologize and would ask which forum would be more appropriate.


Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Ingredients for electric stovetop MiniBIAB:
9.24L* (2.44 gallon) of distilled water
907g (2 pound) pilsner (Ding) + 227g (0.5 pound) Amber
11.4g Amarillo (8AA%) pellets
3.4g Simcoe (13AA%) pellets
3g Warrior (15AA%) pellets
2g Safale S-04 yeast

* 9.24 L is based on a 3.79 Brew Length, OG of 1.088, and kettle diameter of 27.3 cm


Bring 9.24L* (2.44 gallon) of distilled water to 67°C in a 27.3 diameter by 24.13h kettle (14.21 L or 3.73 gallon).

Add grains: 907g (2 pound) pilsner (Ding) + 227 (0.5 pound) Amber

Hold at 65°C for 90 min.

Remove bag and bring to boil.

Boil 105 min.

At 90min add 1.78 g hop mixture to boil every 9min

At 0 min, transfer to 7.57L / 2 gallon fermentation bucket, strain to remove hop pellets.

Chill in sink (water+ice) to 21.67 °C (71°F), add 2g Safale S-04 yeast.

Ferment at room temp ~ 19.45 °C (~67°F) 1 week.

Transfer to 3.79 L (1gal) glass bottle, add 14 g (0.5 oz) Simcoe hops, 14 g (0.5oz)
Warrior hops ferment at ~ 19.45 °C (~67°F) 1 week.

Add 33.7g (0.15 cup) corn sugar, transfer to bottles. Store at room temp 1 week. *do I keep the bottles at room temp. for a week or refrigerate immediately?

Transfer to 4°C, drink.



90-Minute IPA clone
(Dogfish Head)
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.088 FG = 1.021
IBU = 90 SRM = 13 ABV = 8.7%
Ingredients
16.5 lbs. (7.5 kg) Pilsner malt
1.66 lbs. (0.75 kg) amber malt (35 °L)
16 AAU Amarillo hops (90–0 mins)
(2.0 oz./57 g of 8.0% alpha acids)
8.0 AAU Simcoe hops (90–0 mins)
(0.62 oz./17 g of 13% alpha acids)
8.0 AAU Warrior hops (90–0 mins)
(0.53 oz./15 g of 15% alpha acids)
1 oz. (28 g) Amarillo hops (dry hops)
0.5 oz (14 g) Simcoe hops (dry hops)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Warrior hops (dry hops)
1 tsp. Irish moss (15 mins)
Wyeast 1099 (Whitbread Ale) yeast
0.75 cups corn sugar (for priming)

Step by Step
Mash in at 122 °F (50 °C), then raise the temperature to 149 °F (65 °C) until conversion is complete. Mash out to 170 °F (77 °C). Boil the wort for 105 minutes. Starting with 90 minutes left in the boil, begin slowly and evenly adding hops to the kettle. (This works out to a little over 0.25 oz. (7 g) of hops every 7.5 minutes.) Start fermentation at 71 °F (22 °C) and let raise to 74 °F (23 °C). Dry hop in secondary at 71 °F for 3–5 days, then cool to 32 °F (0 °C).

http://byo.com/english-scottish-strong- ... hop-clones

Post #2 made 11 years ago
Welcome to the forum Patrick :salute:,

Your post above shows that you have been nutting things out on your own pretty well and that is no easy task so good on you ;). To provide an answer here though would still take a couple of hours so here's what I reckon you should do...

1. Have a study of this thread. It's not the easiest read but there are some very important points there.

2. Put your recipe and plan into the BIABacus as best as you can. This will make it really easy and fast for us to check your plan.

3. Normally we'd use this thread to convert recipes but in this case, I think you can post your file here.

So, let's do that :peace:,
PP

P.S. You probably shouldn't be using distilled water and you probably shouldn't be adding hops slowly and evenly to the boil so give a bit more info on those things as well.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 20 Jan 2014, 00:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #3 made 11 years ago
Thanks PP. I really appreciate you taking time to help me out.

I’ve attached my attempt to fill in the BIABacus. Here are some notes on how I filled some of it out.
1. in B, VIF was adjusted to fit the grain bill that I bought
2. in D, EOBV-A has not been provided, so I used the VIP provided by the recipe as the EOBV-A (19L), thoughI noted in the thread you suggested this is probably incorrect. I'm not sure how to correct it.

Would you suggest tap water rather than distilled? Is it because the distilled lacks ions needed for the yeast?


The beer I am shooting for is a continuously hopped IPA. If I were not to continuously hop, what schedule would you recommend?

Thanks again for all of your help
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Post #4 made 11 years ago
I am no expert on the BIABacus yet so I can't speak to that but I am an expert in drinking DFH 90 (which Pistol may not be familiar with) so I would suggest staying with the continious hopping which is crucial to this recipe. Distilled water lacks some of the "stuff" you need for a proper mash unless you are going to start messing with water chemistry (No!!!). The basic rule of thumb is "if your tap water is OK to drink, it's OK to make beer with". I am on a city water supply which is chlorinated so the only adjustment I make is to add a campden tablet to remove the chlorinates. Good luck!

---Todd
WWBBD?
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Post #6 made 11 years ago
I started my brew yesterday. It was something of a disaster. Things started well and everything was going fine until the mash spiked to 90°C.

I moved it to an ice bath, but the temp. wouldn't come down. I checked the thermometer (a Thermo digital) and sometime during the mash it busted (in ice water it still read 90°C). I broke out a meat thermometer, got it back up to temp and continued the mash. the OG was 1.044 (rather than 1.088) and the efficiencies seem awful (what is the Efficiency into Kettle?), but I decided to pitch the yeast regardless. I'm glad I started small with a 1 gal recipe.

I've got it fermenting now. In a couple of weeks, I guess I'll know if its drinkable.

Though it did not go as smoothly as I had wanted, I'm still glad I made it. It gave me the chance to troubleshoot the method, become more familiar with what to look for in a good recipe, and work a bit with BIABacus. I think it will take me a while to figure out exactly how BIABacus works, but I know enough now to find a recipe on here that is known to work. Maybe a black IPA.

I've posted the BIABacus for this brew if anyone wants to take a look at it and give me their impressions. Thank you Todd and PP for your advice leading up to my first AG BIAB.
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Post #7 made 11 years ago
Patrick, sorry I didn't get a chance to check your BIABacus file before you brewed. Just doing so now and you did a very nice job of both of them :clap:. Glad to see Todd got you sorted on the water and hop side of things :peace:.

And congratulations on your first brew. These extremely small batch sizes are actually much harder to manage than larger brews. It is extremely easy to get your mash temperature way over and this will have probably been the main cause of your efficiency worries. On top of this you are doing an extremely high gravity brew and that becomes harder again.

I have had a digital thermometer get stuck on me before. You can never have enough mash thermometers! (You may be able to fix that thermometer by boiling the probe in clean water assuming it has a flexible lead.)

On your next brew, use the thread I linked in point number 3 of post #2 above to pre-plan your brew. Try and choose a lower gravity recipe and also aim for a higher Volume into Fermentor. The smaller the batch size, the harder everything is to measure and control.

Your main worry though on the next brew is making sure that the mash temperature does not get out of control.

You also wrote, "...what is the Efficiency into Kettle?". Follow this thread as I have been writing a bit on this in the last week starting here. (That's one of the reasons I missed your posts above :interesting:.)

So, more thermometers, higher batch size and lower gravity for the next brew Patrick ;),
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 25 Jan 2014, 18:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #8 made 11 years ago
Thanks PP. It was a really good experience and its fermenting, so I know I will have *something* to drink in a couple of weeks.

Its still not clear to me what Efficiency into Kettle means. If you have time, I would welcome an additional discussion.

As I understand efficiency, it is the amount, expressed as a percentage, that remains after losses to inefficiencies relative to the start (or ideal) conditions. ie. if the mash were 100% efficient, all of the available starch would be converted to a more simple sugar.

Efficiency into Kettle would seem to measure something before anything happens. thats is, I would think that everything going into the kettle would be 100% efficient and losses due to inefficiencies would start after things start in the kettle. Clearly I am missing something.

Post #9 made 11 years ago
Always have to have time for a fellow Patrick, Patrick :).

I'm away from home today and typing on a craptop which I find extraordinarily difficult but I'll do my best ;).

There's a few things I want to outline up front. The first is that anyone using the BIABacus doesn't need to know much about efficiency at all. All they really have to do is make sure that they are not consistently straying in one direction from the BIABacus estimates.

The second thing is that we have been hammering away for quite some time at coming up with unambiguous terminology. One recent change was changing 'Efficiency into Kettle' to 'Efficiency into Boil (EIB)' as this meshes better with some other terms. So, in this post, I'll be referring to EIB which, like 'Efficiency of Ambient Wort (EAW)' is just another method/place/time where kettle efficiency can be measured (more below).

The third thing is that it is important not to delve too far into the mathematics of efficiency as that can get unnecessarily confusing. When I get home, I'll dig up an old thread here which shows just how confusing it can get. So, I am going to make some broad generalisations here.

The Laboratory's Kettle Efficiency

The main reason I am going to make broad generalisations here is because of laboratory efficiency. Different countries and different maltsters don't necessarily use the same laboratory test on their malts. They also can express the results of their laboratory tests in several different formats, metric (LDK), imperial (ppg) or a percentage for starters but many other idiosyncracies come in here and they all relate to a term I want to avoid here called 'extract potential'.

I think the easiest thing to do is think of a laboratory test as being something like the following...

"In the laboratory, we took one pound of this crushed grain and soaked it in a bit of water for a bit of time. We then drained the water and were able to get one gallon of wort at ambient temperature which had a specific gravity of 1.035 or 35 gravity points per gallon."

The most important thing to note in the above is the 35 gravity points per gallon above is the laboratory's kettle efficiency.

The second thing to realise is that the laboratory does not get all the 'sugar' out of the grain. Their test tends towards getting most of it but not all. So, if you had good water, a good mash temperature, drained your grist really well and were doing a low gravity brew (in other words, washing the grain in lots of water), you could well get a better result than the laboratory.

Your Efficiency into Boil (The first opportunity to measure your kettle efficiency).

For an average gravity brew, home brewers and even commercial breweries will tend to get lower kettle efficiencies than the laboratory for the reasons explained in the last paragraph of the previous section. (Remember, efficiency into boil is that same as kettle efficiency. You'll sometimes also hear the term "mash efficiency" but this is a bit mis-leading. "Mash-lauter efficiency" would be another acceptable kettle efficiency term.)

Let's go back to the laboratory's kettle efficiency of 35 points per pound per gallon. Let's say you used 10 pounds of the same grain in your brew. You could hope for 350 "gravity points" if you had 100% kettle efficiency.

Let's say you have pulled your bag, given it a squeeze and then discarded the bag full of grain. At this stage, you have all the sugar in the kettle you are going to get. The amount of sugar in the kettle is not going to change from now until the end of the boil. (This is why kettle efficiency can be measured anytime between the end of your bag drain and the end of chilling after flame-out.)

Let's say you choose to measure your kettle efficiency at the start of the boil. You need to take a volume reading and multiply it by about 0.96 to reduce it back to it's real volume (volume at ambient temperature) and you need to take a wort sample, cool it and then take its gravity.

Let's say you do this and you end up with the following...

6 gallons at 1.051. That translates to 6*51=306 gravity points.

Note that 306/350 = 87.4% This is your kettle efficiency (or Efficiency into Boil).

As you progress through the boil, your volume decreases through evaporation but you are not losing sugar so your specific gravity increases. In other words, at the end of the boil and after chilling, you might end up with 5 gallons of 1.061(2) wort (still the same 306 gravity points.)

In other words, your Efficiency of Ambient Wort = Efficiency into Boil (Both of these being Kettle Efficiencies).

Fermentor Efficiency

As mentioned n the other thread, the only difference between kettle efficiency and fermentor efficiency is the volume of wort you lose when transferring from kettle to fermentor (Kettle to Fermentor Loss - KFL).

So let's say you lose a gallon of wort when transferring from kettle to fermentor, you will now have 5 gallons at 1.051 or 255 gravity points. Your fermentor efficiency will be 255/350 which = 72.9%.

As I mentioned in the other thread, fermentor efficiency, although often quoted, is a very poor cousin to kettle efficiency.

...

Does that help at all Patrick?

;)
PistolPatrick :smoke:
Last edited by PistolPatch on 26 Jan 2014, 13:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #11 made 11 years ago
patrick.danley wrote:Awesome, this is exactly what I was looking for. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this on a craptastic laptop. The more I learn the more excited i get!
I was going to write the exact same thing as PistolPatch . I am sure happy I waited! :whistle:
Last edited by BobBrews on 27 Jan 2014, 04:17, edited 1 time in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV

Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

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Post #12 made 11 years ago
I moved the brew into secondary fermentation this afternoon. I tasted the brew remaining in the primary after i got as much clear brew into the secondary. It tasted and smelled surprisingly high in alcohol. I'm really enjoying this and am already thinking about what I'll make next. I was thinking about Bob Brew's Black IPA/APA. I saw it a while ago in one of the forums and it looked great!

Post #13 made 11 years ago
patrick.danley,

That Black IPA is a good one. I have won awards with it and it's one of my favorites. The original recipe was from Northern Brewer. I tweaked it, but either recipe will make you a believer.
This is the original recipe below.......

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documenta ... ackIPA.pdf

Cheers :party:
Last edited by BobBrews on 27 Jan 2014, 22:16, edited 1 time in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV

Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #15 made 11 years ago
I did a BIABacus version a long time ago.
Probably better to copy it to the new 1.3K Biabacus and check all the ingredients (that Cheesehead is forever changing his recipe)!
Here is the link to the original.

BTW - it is called Quadby (four B's, for Bob Brews Black Bear).
Last edited by mally on 28 Jan 2014, 15:56, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #17 made 11 years ago
Hey mally,
Probably better to copy it to the new 1.3K Biabacus
Where can I find BIABacus 1.3k? I have the i version.
Is there somewhere this gets posted when it is updated?
Sorry to hi-jack your thread Patrick, well done on your first brew :thumbs:

Cheers, erl :drink:
Last edited by the-erl on 29 Jan 2014, 07:18, edited 1 time in total.

Post #19 made 11 years ago
the erl - the site structure is in the process of being renovated so it can sometimes be difficult to find where things are. So to answer your question, there isn't currently a location/thread with BIABacus updates.
However, the 1.3K is here, and contains the Krispy Kolsch recipe.
Just save as a blank and delete entries/update to your equipment etc. and you are good to go :thumbs:
Last edited by mally on 29 Jan 2014, 18:36, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #21 made 11 years ago
YES!!! Thank you Mally.
I was having a bit of a time with navigation myself...
But I have only been on this site a few days and still getting use to it....
Now if we can just get the tweaks out of Bob For the Black IPA :drink:
V/r
Mike

Post #22 made 11 years ago
Hey guys

I just wanted to fill you in on how it turned out. As I mentioned above, the mash ran into some troubles that impacted the extraction efficiency. However, I am happy to report that this was a perfectly drinkable beer. The color was just about perfect and it had a great hop aroma and taste but it lacked balance. Because of the troubles with the mash (that's my guess at least), the beer really lacked a malty backbone to balance out the hops. I enjoyed the beer (and making it, and I learned a lot.

I've attached a picture of the finished product. My brew is on the left with the B cap, and what I was shooting for (90min DFH IPA) is on the right.

I've got the Quadby ale in the 2° fermenter. The mash for this went better than the beer discussed in this thread, but i kinda screwed up the boil (how can one screw up boiling a liquid you may wonder) so we'll see how it turns out. I'm already looking forward to making my next batch.
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Post #23 made 11 years ago
Cheers Patrick! Having drinkable beer is the key. Brewing is a great mistress; we can screw up a bit and she still gives us something in return.
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

Weehoosebrewing.ga
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Post #24 made 11 years ago
patrick.danley wrote:The mash for this went better than the beer discussed in this thread, but i kinda screwed up the boil (how can one screw up boiling a liquid you may wonder)...
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Good on you Patrick :peace:. As for screwing up a boil, that is easy for we brewers. Run out of gas. Get distracted and have a boil-over. Forget when the boil started. Forget the hop additions. All these are really easy. Getting drunk and forgetting you actually are boiling or getting drunk and falling in the boil may point to more serious problems that we probably can't help you with.

Fess up. What did you do Patrick?

:)
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 04 Apr 2014, 16:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #25 made 11 years ago
Put in that perspective, I did not do anything egregious.

For my first batch, I boiled it hard and without a lid. As a consequence, my volume at the end of the boil was about 1/2 of what I expected. I was going to make sure that didn't happen again, so I boiled the wort less hard with a lid on. I ended up with a end of boil volume ~ 1.3x of what I expected.

At first I thought this was a great success. It took me a couple of days to realize that my sugars are going to be diluted. I'm expecting another overly hopped beer, though I have to say that I was really pleased when I tasted what was left after transferring to the 2°. Its still going to be a very drinkable beer, I just need to get more familiar with my equipment.
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