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Basic Brewing & BYO Mashing Experiment including BIAB!!

Post #1 made 16 years ago
by nik
Taken from Basic Brewwing
November 4, 2010 - Mashing Experiment and Winter Brews
James and Chris Colby, editor of Brew Your Own magazine, announce the new collaborative mashing experiment and talk about winter beers.
Podcast url: http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrew ... winter.mp3

BYO and BASIC BREWING have announced their new experiment regarding mashing techniques and BIAB is also taking part among traditional ways , lets see what the results could be.The experiment ends at January 8th I think.
I think BIAB grows up and if the results of the experiments aren't biased this would be a good stepstone to get the place it deserves.
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Post #3 made 16 years ago
by Ralph
Hear hear 2XC, why is it there's only ever lightweights talking BIAB? You're local aren't you- I nominate you to be on the show next! Actually, I have had a listen, one of the first brewing broadcasts that I've been able to stomach from go to whoa, Chris was non- partisan and did pretty well IMO.

I didn't catch a link to the experiment? Anyone?

Ps. Don't make me blush! :blush:
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]

Post #4 made 16 years ago
by Two If By Sea
Local as in living in the US? Yes. I've actually been on BBR. I was Scott in the Partigyles gone wild. I wish there was a little more emphasis in that episode on how phenomenal we did with the BIAB portion of our collaborative mashing, but....

The link above in the OP is to the podcast where they talk about the experiment that will be happening. I haven't heard it yet, it is in my podcast list.
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Post #5 made 16 years ago
by Ralph
Yeah 2XC, I remember that one. Never mind though, there's always your next guest appearance to set the record straight! :shoot:

Yep, I thought there might be a link to where they're recording some data, IIRC with the experiment they want folks to do some side by side tests of their own with just different lautering as the variable being tested, BIAB is an obvious candidate and they mention it quite a bit.
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]

Post #8 made 15 years ago
by Ralph
Thanks nik! I'll certainly be keeping an eye on that, keen to see what sorts of results turn up.

Obviously devised by a non BIABer- made the common mistake in presuming all BIABs are full- volume/ not sparged... :roll: (it bugs me, sorry to rant...)
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]

Post #9 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
Thanks for the links Nik and please keep keeping us posted :peace:
Ralph wrote:Obviously devised by a non BIABer- made the common mistake in presuming all BIABs are full- volume/ not sparged... :roll: (it bugs me, sorry to rant...)
LOL Ralph! And look out, because I am going to disagree :lol:...

I think the experiment is fine as it follows the original premise of BIAB which is to brew a full batch with a single-vessel. Since then, brewers like yourself have worked out great ways of using a bag to brew a higher volume of beer. This involves though usually a major change to the original BIAB, the one described in The Commentary. These variations are major. For example, using more grain or adding a second vessel or even third vessel.

I think "Mini-BIAB" and "Maxi-BIAB" are good terms and should always be used when describing these alternatives. There is a big problem in the homebrew world with lack of definition. We see it in efficiency all the time, in the way brewers do not specify what efficiency they are talking about. I personally would be very disappointed to see "Mini-BIAB," and "Maxi-BIAB" shortened in their description to simply, "BIAB," as it would just result in confusion thereby minimising each of the three methods.

Hope that makes sense and is of help as I think Mini-BIAB and Maxi-BIAB deserve to be recognised in their own right.

Cheers mate,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 19 Nov 2010, 19:46, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #10 made 15 years ago
by wizard78
PistolPatch wrote:I think the experiment is fine as it follows the original premise of BIAB which is to brew a full batch with a single-vessel. PP
:think: ....Traditional Biab :interesting: :lol:
Last edited by wizard78 on 19 Nov 2010, 20:03, edited 5 times in total.
[center]"All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer."
[/center]
[center]Homer Simpson[/center]
[center]K.I.S.S., B.I.A.B.[/center]

Post #11 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
No wiz - "Traditional-BIAB." You forgot the hyphen :lol:

I think our posts might be gone soon - we are getting a bit off-topic :lol:
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Post #12 made 15 years ago
by Two If By Sea
I'm not sure this is going to prove much of anything. The only valuable trials will be done by those who have experience in both of the two methods they choose. For example, I have only done BIAB so to expect me to do a batch sparge and then compare is ludicrous, but I bet there will be plenty of data given by people in the same boat. And we all know what it is like to remove all the common "knowledge" about mashing and free fall with BIAB the first time.

I also question why volume is an important constant. I think they are trying to get at efficiency in the easiest way. Wouldn't OG be more important to match between the two chosen methods? If you have OG constant and starting volume recorded but not necessarily constant, you can compare efficiencies still and have much more similar beers to compare in the rest of the "tests". A 70% efficiency and 85% efficiency of the same recipe, same volume can be too far apart to compare fairly (keeping in mind that the higher the target OG, the bigger the difference), especially if you don't adjust hopping schedules. Granted, a 5% difference in efficiency may not be much in some cases, but still not constant enough to draw good conclusions from. Just MHXO.
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Post #13 made 15 years ago
by Ralph
OT: Yeah PP, (when you're ready ;) ) sometimes the ambiguousness is a bother, should've called Maxi-BIAB "Thrumpnottler's Bend Splartling MkIId" or something as deviously sensible just so there's no confusion! :whistle:

On topic: Yep, 2XC has a point, it isn't likely to float too far with anyone who already has an established method, so likely to be biased. I asked myself if I should resurrect plans for a 3V setup for which I already have the bits, not likely is the answer which effectively discounts 3V. Also the experimental design is naive, at least partly, to the method mentioned above.
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]

Post #14 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
I have experience in brewing both traditional and BIAB. A few other guys here do as well. This is something you will never or rarely see on another site.

What annoys me is that more brewers don't report their figures. To date, no traditional brewers have made any effort, on any forum I can find, to collect figures. They, and then we, assume most figures from transferred commercial figures are accurate. They aren't.

BIABrewers are the only brewers I have seen make an effort to even attempt at collecting figures. I have never seen, not once, any other thread on any brewing forum attempting to do likewise.

We should probably start one,
PP
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Post #15 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
sigurdur wrote: What do you mean by transferring commercial figures?
I don't know :lol:. I wrote that post at one in the morning after way too many beers with my neighbours. I don't think I was making any sense. As hashie will tell you, the word, "efficiency," sets me off after a few beers :drink:

I think what I was probably trying to say was that it is a shame that there aren't more things around such as the spreadsheet you can see here. I haven't seen anything like this for traditional brewing.

On a more sober note, I did once do a side by side of 3 vessel and BIAB. In a triangular taste test, only one person out of about a dozen could tell the difference and he described the BIAB beer as being, "thinner but less astringent."

I have to go now - I have an appointment with a headache :peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 20 Nov 2010, 11:11, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #16 made 15 years ago
by Two If By Sea
I'd love some more BIAB sides by side information (who really cares about 3V, BIAB works, end of story). For example, holding the same recipe and adjusting to equal OG and IBUs for the boil:
60 min vs 90 min mash
60 min vs 90 min boil
Full volume mash vs sparge
Maxi vs Mini vs Traditional
Squeezing vs nonsqueezing vs squeezing the snot out of it

It's just difficult to delegate the time and money to do something like this. If only I could convince my homebrew club members to all go BIAB for a few group brew sessions....
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Post #18 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
Thanks for the heads up nik :peace:

Interesting results summed up very well by you.

I found two things surprising...

1. When I do side by sides between different methods, I always dilute the stronger pre-boil wort so it equals the second wort. This, I think, allows for a more accurate flavour comparison while still retaining efficiency measurements. Not sure why they didn't do this.

2. The definition of "no-sparge" used was incorrect. No-sparge mashing is not full-volume mashing. In pure no-sparge, the grain bill is increased by about a third and mashed with about half of the final volume. After the mash, the other half of the water is added directly to the kettle - it never touches any grain. This was not done either. They used the normal grain bill and all the water just as we do in BIAB.

I always find it surprising how such terminology gets used incorrectly. Anyway, as long as we all know that BIAB is not the same as what is known as the "no-sparge" method ;).

Good on you nik!
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