Pilsner as an ale?

Post #1 made 14 years ago
Not sure where to post this question, but maybe someone can move it if need be.

My mate has asked me to brew her some beer now that I'm a big bad AG brewer. So of course I say sure what do like? :idiot:

Pilsner! :shock:

So without a fridge or fermentation chamber I'm wondering has anyone done a pils with an ale yeast? I know it's strictly not a pils but maybe a pseudo-pils.

Or can I somehow lager without a fridge.
Maybe a bucket of ice? Overwinter in the shed (Melbourne)?

Cheers for the help :peace:
"Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer."
- Henry Lawson

Post #2 made 14 years ago
Your only worry is really fermentation temperature which in Melbourne now shouldn't be too much of a problem. With Saflager 34/70, you want about 12 C. If you pitch low at say 10C you can skip doing a diacetyl rest which is good. So, the two issues are getting it to 10C and then keeping it at 12 for at least a few weeks.

The lagering can be done in the bottle so you can leave that up to her. She'll just have to keep the bottles for 4 weeks or longer at preferably the closest to 0 C as she can. The higher the lager tempo the longer the lager is the rule but rules are made to be broken. (Best pilsner I had turned brilliant after 8 months of lagering but who can wait that long???).

As for using an ale yeast for a lager, I've read about it but can't remember how successful it was sorry. One way to go would be to use K97 yeast and ferment it low ( 15C). Perhaps modify this recipe a little? That recipe is a very good pseudo-lager so maybe just up the hop bill a little?

Go for it :P,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 29 May 2012, 16:11, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #3 made 14 years ago
Thanks PP! :peace:

I just pitched into some LloydieP's Krispy Kolsch this arvo! :lol:

My fermentation chamber - the study - is @ 14c today so maybe in a couple of weeks I'll be able to get regular temps of 10 or 12 and then try to leave bottles of beer in the fridge for a month???? :nup:

Screw this lager business I want to drink beer now!
"Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer."
- Henry Lawson

Post #4 made 14 years ago
My German beer research has led me to believe that a kolsch is 'basically' a pilsner made with an ale yeast ;)
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #5 made 14 years ago
stux wrote:My German beer research has led me to believe that a kolsch is 'basically' a pilsner made with an ale yeast ;)
and then lagered at lagering temp for a few months...
Last edited by shibolet on 29 May 2012, 21:39, edited 3 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #6 made 14 years ago
shibolet wrote:
stux wrote:My German beer research has led me to believe that a kolsch is 'basically' a pilsner made with an ale yeast ;)
and then lagered at lagering temp for a few months...
Ie put the bottle at the back of the fridge ;)
Last edited by stux on 30 May 2012, 05:41, edited 3 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #7 made 14 years ago
stux wrote:My German beer research has led me to believe that a kolsch is 'basically' a pilsner made with an ale yeast ;)
I think this is where the difference between a 'crsipy' kolsch and a modern day kolsch comes in. I think, these days, a lot of brewers brew a kolsch with, what in my opinion, is too much fruitiness.

My vague memories on the subject agree with you stux. I think ale yeasts were "not allowed" until a few hundred years ago and German "ale yeast" may have been one of the first ale yeasts used and kolosch one of the first ale styles brewed in Germany.

I've only brewed Kolsch with liquid yeast (not the K97 I mentioned above because I can't get it) and all I can say is that, if like me, you want the crispiness of a pilsner, you really have to ferment it as low as you can. (If you like fruit flavours, then no need to worry :) ).

I've never lagered a 'crispy' kolsch as, on reflection, the times I have brewed it, it's disappeared quickly as I've usually brewed it especially for a gathering.

Might put this back on my list if I can find some K97.

An excellent lager or pilsner is a beautiful beer but resource-heavy. I've got a Munich Helles and Dortmunder Export in the keg at the moment but haven't tried them yet. I like letting the excitement build :). What I should do, when I brew lagers/pilsners, is bottle them instead of kegging and taste a bottle every month.

Talking to myself now :smoke:. Bottling them is definitely the way to go until I find a recipe that has the 'magic'.

...

Excuse the meandering thoughts above nu-brew however when you say...
nubrew wrote:Screw this lager business I want to drink beer now!
I agree. I think the crispy kolsch is a great way to go. You also have an advantage over me - you don't keg.

So, don't wait a month before you taste. Taste a bottle as soon as it's carbonated. See how it goes. Continue tasting every week but, I reckon the best thing for lager bottlers would be to always leave 6 bottles aside and taste one every few months to see if you can find the optimum lagering time, if any.

My taste buds aren't good enough/clever enough to detect such a difference. I can have a beer one day and think that is truly excellent and, a day later, have the same beer and not be enthused.

So, ignore everything I have written above* :lol: :lol: :lol:,
PP

* The only reason I wrote half the above is that the best beer I have ever had was given to me by pHman. 12 bottles he gave me. They were always good but suddenly became truly brilliant after 9 months of lagering in my fridge. It was the last bottle and I was so astounded I re-capped it and tasted it again two days later. It was still truly brilliant.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 30 May 2012, 22:21, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #8 made 14 years ago
I definitely need a bigger fridge (and some more patience) if I'm going to lager anything!

The Kolsch I pitched on Tuesday is fermenting away at 14c so hopefully that will get it to a 'crispy' finish, I pitched a smack pack of Wyeast 2565 for the record.

I wasn't planning on lagering the kolsch but now I might try to leave some aside and see how it goes in a few months.(9 months :nup:)
"Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer."
- Henry Lawson
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