APA - four pines recipe clone

Post #1 made 10 years ago
Firstly this forum website is amazing, and as a first time AG BIAB brewer it has provided invaluable information.
So after a couple of missed targets and frustrations with beersmith i am going to convert to biabacus for my next brew.
Quick question, does biabacus know what particular grain i am using in regards to the different fermentables in each grain? So from what i have learnt crystal wont have as much fermentables as pale 2 row?
Is this so important or irrelevant in terms of the grain bill and hitting my targets.
Anyway thanks so much for having me here, i have attatched my recipe i will be doing on the weekend and if its possible would like to know if it all looks good.
regards
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Post #2 made 10 years ago
I think the answer to your initial question is seen in section Y, where it is stated that the default extract potential for all fermentables is 80% FGDB and 4% MC. These numbers can be adjusted from the defaults in section Y. I've adjusted these potentials when adding things like honey or lactose, but my understanding is that the defaults mostly do not need to be changed for grains.

As for the rest of the file, one thing stands out to me is that you have filled out both the original recipe VAW as 0 and IBU as 35; only one section needs to be filled out. Although, as I understand it, if both are filled out, the IBU section overrides the VAW section so it's not really material. (VAW also should not be "0" regardless, that would mean no beer! :sad:) Also, you filled out both OG areas in section C with the same number. If you are sticking with the original recipe I think you need only fill the first, but again, as before, this didn't change anything because you used the same number in both places.

Finally, I think generally the safest thing to do for BIAB is a 90 min mash but I think it depends on the particular grain bill and I'm not knowledgable enough to tell you if it matters here.

Hopefully that will tide you over until more knowledgable people chime in.
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
XFUMBLER replied whilst I was writing the below, so just ignore any duplication.
I didnt look at your file either, but looks like "X" has your back on that.
jeffargent wrote:Quick question, does biabacus know what particular grain i am using in regards to the different fermentables in each grain?
JA - The BIABacus by default will treat all grain at the same fermentable level (PPG). Though you have the option to override these settings if you want to.
If you look at the end of the spreadsheet after Section "Y" you will see "the original Fermentable Bill" with values for Grain/FGDB & 2 more protected cells for FGAI. If you happen to know the exact specs for your grain from a laboratory anlaysis then you can override in those boxes.
If you want to "wing it" and use generic average values that you see around the internet, you could do that too. Though to be honest, you will see little difference in doing so, so most users will just leave those values at default.
The only exception for me is when it comes to using adjuncts specifically dry sugars, as these tend to have much higher PPG values & almost no moisture, so can make a little difference if left at default.

Hope that helps
Last edited by mally on 20 Jun 2016, 15:08, edited 1 time in total.
G B
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I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
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Post #4 made 10 years ago
Perfect, that answers that! So i checked the fermentables and Biabacus does seem to have a good average on all the grain i using so i will just leave it.
I have changed the boil time to 90 mins which is good as it reduces the grain a bill a bit, and left the original VAW blank and just using desired IBU.
Another question i just thought of is, does Biabacus allow for different saccharification temps with different final gravoty numbers?
Thanks so much!

Post #5 made 10 years ago
jeffargent wrote:does Biabacus allow for different saccharification temps with different final gravoty numbers?
It doesn't automatically do that, as it will vary according to yeast used as well.
You can override the attenuation setting though if you think you have a good idea what the fermentability will be. Section "H" mid way down on the right hand side.

Mash temps & yeast attenuation is probably another area where you have to use "rule of thumb" calculations, or as I prefer to think (it will be what it will be)!
Last edited by mally on 20 Jun 2016, 21:24, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #6 made 10 years ago
Hi again Jeff ;),

Looks like you have taken on board all the good advice above already - sweet! Here's a few more things that I noticed...

You really need to increase your mash time for 60 to 90 minutes. On nearly all grain bills, doing so will make a significant difference. In traditional three-vessel brewing, the mash and sparge are separate. The mash is often 60 minutes and is followed by 30 or more minutes of sparging. In pure BIAB (full-volume brewing) we do the mash and sparge at the same time. The contact time your grain has with water is important. Tests we've done here show that. So, change your mash time to 90 minutes.

Your whirfloc tablet addition should be done at 5 minutes, not fifteen. That's a really common error and I'm not sure where it originated. Whirfloc actually denatures in the bil after ten minutes and becomes ineffective.

I'd like to see your mash temperature at 66°C or even 65C on this single infusion mash so don't be scared to go lower than 66.7C.

This looks like a great recipe so all should go well :thumbs:.

Here's two rambles for you...

Ramble 1

I've always advised aerating the wort and then sprinkling the dried yeast on it. Now, I'm not sure though that a single 11.5 gram sachet of US-05 is enough for pitching into a 23 lt VIF of 1.053 wort. I'm super-sensitive to a few flavours such as acetaldehyde and, on reflection, I never had any acetaldehyde in brews I had pitched with washed US-05 yeast.

I haven't been brewing enough lately with US-05 to warrant washing it so have returned to my olden day ways recently - rehydrating and then, while the wort is chilling and aerating, adding wort to the rehydrated yeast. This works really well and is proof how easy it is to forget a successful brewing practice.

I'm in two minds though as to what advice to give. Sprinkle 1.5 sachets of yeast (which is a PITA) or rehydrate and "educate" the one sachet. The reason why I hesitate on the second option is that the instructions given are really poor.

You must use sterile water to re-hydrate and you must get the temperature right (around 27 °C). Boiling some tap water for 20 minutes and letting it cool is fine to get the sterile bit. Add 115mls to a jug and then sprinbkle the dried yeast on top. Have a santised tea-spoon sitting in the jug and cover it with plastic wrap. Let is sit for 30 minutes and then give it a bit of a stir. 15 minutes later, add about 80mls of wort that you collected at the end of the boil in a coffee mug, covered and cooled. About 30 minutes later, add the rest of the coffee mug (another 120 mls). By this stage, the yeast will have really woken up and you also will have chilled and aerated your wort. Pitch it!

Ramble 2

You mentioned above that the BIABacus default on estimating fermentable sugars seems to work well. And, it does.

One other thing though to note with the BIABacus is that it is very transparent whereas other software is not. For example, in BeerSmith, if you change the moisture content on a fermentable from say 4% to 50%, the "yield" (very vague term) does not change nor will the OG of your recipe. This is totally incorrect. If you gave me 1000 grams of sugar but told me it had a moisture content of 50%, I would know I would need to add two teaspoons into my coffee if I normally had one.

So, the first thing to realise is that vague software terminology allows pretty much anything to add up :).

The second thing is that one batch of say Weyerman Pilsner Malt is not the same as the next. Moisture content, colour etc can vary significantly from batch to batch, more so from year to year. Go to the Weyerman site and you'll see thatWeyerman Pilsner Maltcan range, in colour, from 2.5 to 4.0 EBC. If you were able to get a spec sheet for each batch, you'd also notice moisture content will vary.

Basically, unless you are using something like sugar or you do know the actual specs of every grain in your recipe, there is no point in using Section Y. The BIABacus estimate will serve you better.

So, rest easy ;),
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 21 Jun 2016, 00:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #7 made 10 years ago
Thanks PistoPatch,
Great information, im loving Biabacus the more and more i get to know it.
Regarding the yeast ill be sure to give that a try as ive always known im being a bit lazy just throwing in one packing of died yeast into 23 litres of wort.
Mash time is now 90 mins, do i keep the boil time to 60 mins as i noticed when i put it to 90 mins my grain bill actually reduced which i cant work out, would it be to do with water to grain ratio as you need more initial strike water because i will be boiling off more.
thanks everyone for your help, im more than excited to get into this next brew.
regards

Post #8 made 10 years ago
Good stuff Jeff ;).

The reason the grain reduces when you increase from a 60 to 90 minute boil is because you end up starting with more water (top line of Section K) to make up for the increased evaporation. This also means that the grains are being washed in a bit more water and so will come out "cleaner" (more sugar extracted from the grain) so you need a bit less grain to get the same desired gravity.

If you have already weighed and crushed your grain, just go with that. If your water tasted pretty good, then you should be able to get away with a 60 minute boil with no problems. If you choose to go for the 90 minutes but with the heavier grain bill, the only thing that is going to happen is that ytou will end up with a bit higher gravity wort than expected. You'll usually have this happen in the BIABacus anyway as it is designed to kepp you in the safe side of things. Always keep some "good water" handy for after the chill so you can dilute the wort in the fermenter to the right OG. To do that...

In Section L you'll need a number beside both KFL and VIF. (If you don't know your KFL, just type in 0). Once that is done, type your GAW into Section M. Now, in Section N, type in some numbers in the 'Water used to Dilute GAW' until the 'Expected Origianl Gravity in Section O equals the OG you want.

The above sounds really confusing but if you open the BIAABcus and have a go at the above, you'll find it a lot easier than it sounds :).

Looking forward to hearing how it all goes. Remember that estimated numbers are always a guide. Always be prepared to adjust at the end of the day. Even the big breweries have to do that after every batch.

;)
PP
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