Hi there fongas,

Sorry you haven't had any help on this as yet but here's some things that might be interesting for you....

I've just been writing up a lot of posts behind the scenes here and, coincidentally, the one I just finished is titled, "Scaling, Designing and Cloning Recipes".

In that thread what we are trying to do is get new brewers such as yourself, onto a safe and sensible path of learning. Cloning a recipe is very advanced. There are many problems with it. For a start, most brewers won't have even tasted the beer you want to clone. There's also an order of learning that is really important and I'm pretty sure this site is the only one aiming at providing such order.

For example, your recipe above needs more definition. There is no Original Gravity figure and no Volume of Ambient Wort figure. These are the two most critical numbers in any brew.

There are several other major holes of information in your recipe but it's all good. There doesn't look like anything majorly worrying in the ingredoients above but a few questions...

1. Where did the above come from?
2. What volume do you want to get into your fermentor or bottles?

Also read this thread.


PP

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Hi again fongas,

I'm hoping that a few of the other brewers here can help you out as I better keep writing the behind the scenes posts I'm currently working on which will make thing much easier for brewers such as yourself. Here's an example of a post I just finished...

[center]If you are a new all-grainer[/center]

This is definitely the place to be. If you understand the BIAB brewing process, all you really need to do is...

Do's

1. Decide on a brew kettle.
2. Measure it's dimensions.
3. Read through The BIABacus 1.0 thread. [Not available at time of this post. Get a pre-release file PR 1.3K from here instead]
4. Choose a recipe to brew from the Official BIABrewer Recipes forum. [Not available at time of this post.]
5. Read Scaling High Integrity recipes (Easy)[Not available at time of this post.]

Don'ts

1. Ask too much from your kettle. Choose a sensible amount ot brew based on your kettle size and the BIABacus.
2. Use other software. The BIABacus, even with it's spreadsheet limitations is still faster, easier, safer and far more powerful than other software. Search this site for some other software and you will soon find some major problems.
3. Use recipes that are not official BIABrewer recipe. Nearly all recipes you will come across elsewhere lack integrity. Here is just one example.

Check your Plan Before you Brew

Post your BIABacus file in the Recipe Scaling forum [Not available at time of this post.] before you buy ingredients. This will give you the peace of mind that you are not missing anything obvious. It can happen

It is a real priority to get the new BIAB Recipes and the BIABacus forum up and running so I will leave you in other hands for now.

Here's a few things to do...

1. Do as much of the above as you can.
2. Post here on how big your fermentor is.
3. Post here on how big your kettle is if you have one.


PP

A Note to Others

The Kosciousko Pale Ale looks like a mild American APA. The hop varieties posted are correct but I reckon it would be low IBU's - possibly 25. That's as much info as I can give on the cloning as I haven't tasted one.

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Kosiosko pale ale.

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I'm going to jump back in here again. Contrarian, I am shocked . Your posts are usually high quality here. What are you doing?!!!

...

I sort of understand what Contrarian says above. He is saying, "Just make it and see how it comes out," but I think that advice really lacks for reasons we haven't explained on this site very well as yet. (Stay tuned Contrarian ).

For a start, we don't know your kettle or fermentor size and until that is provided we can't give you good advice. How could we? What if your kettle or fermentor size was twice as big or small as ours?

Secondly has anyone told you how much water you need to add to the grain you have proposed? No. Has anyone explained it is the ratio of the grains and the OG that matter? No. On the hop bill has anyone explained what is missing? No.

...

And here is where we come to a point.

This site has answered all the above questions on a one on one basis until now. That is not very efficient. But, answering those many hundreds of questions in detail resulted in things like the BIABacus. Can anyone help Fongas into the BIABacus while we write the help?

Hope so!!!

PP

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Kosiosko pale ale.

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Fonga
There are a multitude of ways to clone a recipe but this is the way I would try for a beer I have never seen or tasted

The best place to get the information needed to try to create a clone is the beers own website.

http://www.banjopatersoninn.com.au/kosc ... rewery.php

From this we learn that

"Our original Kosciuszko Pale is a 4.5% alcohol, slightly cloudy ale that challenges the limits of the traditional Australian Pale Ale. Crafted from a blend of Pale & Munich malts, and brewed using Tasmanian grown Galaxy hops our pale ale delivers a pleasant maltiness with a refreshing fruity hop finish."

That tells us that at one stage (and keep in mind recipes for commercial beers change as the availability of the raw materials changes) they used only Munich and Pale Malts. They also used Galaxy hops. Its style is Australian Pale Ale (with the limits of that style challenged).

It has an ABV of 4.5%

Now we have to make some assumptions (educated/wild guesses)

The style guidelines http://www.aabc.org.au/docs/AABC2013StyleGuidelines.pdf tell us that the FG should be between 1004 and 1006. Lets use 1005.

THe ABV is calculated by (og-fg)*1.31 or og = (ABV/131) +fg. Gives us an og of about 1.040.

A bit lower than Contrarians 1.045 but remember they have challenged the style. That means it could be anything and I'm already making assumptions about your attenuation.

They say Pale and Munich malts. Makes sense if you use the Pale Malt as a base and the Munich to give a bit of colour and taste.

Once again the style says the colour should be between 4 and 7 SRM so lets use 6 (another assumption).

Using a grist bill of

Pale Malt 97.5%
Munich I 2.5% (Mainly colour)

will keep you mathematically on style (but not challenged).

The hopping schedule makes even more assumptions

They say they use galaxy so thats a start.

I can't find a reliable reference to the IBU's expected but Google searches suggest 29. That's within the guidelines of 25 to 40 so it's as good a guess as any.

According to http://www.hops.com.au/products/galaxy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Galaxy has an Alpha acid content of between 11% to 16% so lets use 13%. You will have to adjust yours to suit your hops.

To calculate your hop additions you need to know the VAW (Volume of ambient wort) or your brew house characteristics along with the amount you want to get into your bottles, as Contrarian has already advised.

There is no way around this so we are going to make another assumption and use the BIABacus defaults.

We are also going to assume (again) that you are going to put 25 litres into your bottles

To get to the 29 IBU's suggested, you could follow your recipe suggestion and use

20 g at 60 mins
10 g at 10 mins
and 20 g dry hopped.

That is one of an infinite number of combinations that will get you 29 IBUs. Taste it and see how it compares.

The yeast is anybody's guess but maybe Safale US-05 to get the attenuation you need

Bottle condition to get the cloudy look

What have we ended up with ...

A beer that fits the style guidelines (non challenged) and uses only the ingredients they say they use.

How's it taste in comparison ....

I have no idea. Thats for you to find out and then to challenge the style accordingly.

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Very nice work as always majorphill

Contrarian wrote: I know assumption is the mother of all f ups...

I know how passionate you are about recipe integrity but for a first BIAB where you have no idea what your grain obsorption, evapoiration, kettle to fermenter loss and fermenter to packaging loss it is almost impossible to have an accurate target OG.

When I was starting out there were so many things to try to understand about brewing that it was almost paralyzing.

Your first brew is not about understanding everything, it's about getting over the all grain fear hump, learning about your system and making beer.

Lol on the assumptions .

I agree totally with nearly all you have written. This site and the BIABacus are all about getting brewers over that hump. The main job atm is to give good help for the BIABacus because it means the new brewer needs to know almost nothing, just their pot dimensions. All the auto-estimates ensue they are brewing in safe limits. The new brewer has nothing to worry about. The worst those estimates will usually do is give you more beer than you need.

Secondly they allow us to check figures and see if there is something really obviously wrong in someone's brewing practice.

In other words, all we need to do in this thread now is put majorphill's work into the BIABacus PR 1.3 K and then let fongas ask more questions.

He will need to answer those questions I asked above about kettle size and fermentor size obviously. I doubt his fermentor will handle 25 litres into packaging without risking a blow-out.

Anyway, lots of site re-structuring etc to make things super easy but even now I think what we have available here should make this thread easy to handle well.


PP

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Good job fongas. Just do the best you can and then post the file up and we'll run through / fix anything we need to. Just wqork through Sections A to D for now.


PP

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Here's the file with Rick's corrections and majorphill's suggestions .

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Good stuff fongas ,

There's a lot less to learn than you probably think so don't read too much! Go back to post #5 here and make sure you have that under control. After that, all you really have to do is...

1. Order your hops and grain - right hand side of Sections C and D of BIABacus. (Check the AA% of the hops you will be buying and type them into the right hand side of Section D for higher accuracy.)
2. Fill the kettle with the TWN from Section K of the BIABacus.
3. Heat the water to whatever temperature Section E tells you to strike at.
4. Throw your grain in and check its temperature every 15 minutes for 90 minutes. Add heat and stir if needs be.
5. Pull the bag and give it a bit of a squeeze.
6. Raise to boiling temp.
7. Boil for 90 minutes adding hops as you go.

Ask any questions you like though. Everyone here is very considerate except for me when I'm drunk .

If you are worried, write out a checklist and post it here. We'll spot any problems.


PP

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Good on you fongas ,

Look around for a picture re-sizer. You probably already have one in one of your picture programs such as Microsoft paint. Make the pic a jpg and re-size it so that the height or width doesn't exceed 1024 pixels. That should work.

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You only need the tiniest imperfection in a fermentor seal for an airlock not to work.

To make sure things are on track, the only thing you can do is take a sample of the fermenting wort. Make sure you do it in a sanitised manner and let us know the reading.

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