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Recipe recommendation request for first BIAB brew!

Post #1 made 12 years ago
by do_you_realise
Hey,

I came here looking to put together a plan of action for my first BIAB brew. I posted earlier (http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... 74&p=33869) about my concerns over my kettle size (20L approx), the amount of time my gas hob took to bring this to a boil when I tested it (about 1 hour for 15L of cold tap water!) and the rolling boil not being very fierce (although the water did reach 100 celsius which I assume is all that is required?)

I was told that for a 20L kettle I should really be aiming to end up with 10L of beer, which is great for a first attempt (and makes bottling much less daunting a task!) but that I really need to come back with a recipe before they can help.

Would anyone be able to recommend a first time recipe please? I'm looking for something suitable to my kettle size and relatively simple and quick to condition, so I can quickly get to the point where I have something to assess and then can start putting together a more complicated recipe once I've got the basic technique down. I'm not interested in doing any dilution at this stage, which was suggested in the earlier thread; I just want to get a simple all-grain brew under my belt.

I have an unopened bag of Chinook hops in the freezer so would like to make use of these for bittering/aroma if possible.

Any recommendations would be gratefully received :) thanks!
Last edited by do_you_realise on 06 Nov 2013, 21:40, edited 2 times in total.

Post #2 made 12 years ago
by mally
For a first brew you cannot go wrong doing a SMaSH (single malt and single hop).
Just decide what kind of ABV% you prefer, and work out quantities in the BIABacus (have you tried using it yet)?

Those chinook hops would work a treat in an APA if you like that kind of thing.

On a seperate note (off topic) I hope you sorted your crown capper problem (I just saw it recently) unless you have a doppelganger with the same name on JBK!

:luck:
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #4 made 12 years ago
by do_you_realise
I'd be happy doing an APA for my first brew - anything to be honest, as long as it tasted better than the canned stuff I've made in the past! :)

Mad_Scientist, thanks for the link, I may as well try that. Yes I'll give the BIABacus a go - does it work in OpenOffice/LibreOffice?

Should return to the original thread now with the recipe idea for further queries or should I continue in here?

Mally, yes I did eventually get it replaced and the replacement was fine (I don't know what JBK is but did post it on homebrewtalk or the UK homebrew forum at some point)

Cheers :)

Edit: I've just read elsewhere that it was designed specifically to work across both LibreOffice and OpenOffice as well as Excel. Brilliant :)

Post #5 made 12 years ago
by do_you_realise
Alright, I've had a basic APA recommended to me over in the Recipes thread. I downloaded the pre-populated BIABacus spreadsheet they linked me to and changed the following:

Kettle shape: 27cm diameter, 37cm height
Desired volume into fermentor: 10L

From that it gave me the following grain bill:

Maris Otter - 2033g
Munich 1 - 407g
Cara Amber - 203g

For this I've ordered the closest matches from my preferred online shop:

Maris Otter Pale Malt Crushed 2kg
Cara Munich Type I Malt (crushed) 500g (I will probably just put all of this in, no use having 93g of a speciality grain knocking around... or is there?)
Cara Amber (crushed) 500g (obviously I can save some of this for a future brew)

And I'm going to substitute the Chinook hops for the Amarillo listed in the file. How can I put this into the spreadsheet? Is it clever enough to recalculate based on AA percentage?

If there are any glaring errors here I'd be grateful to be educated :) thanks!

Post #6 made 12 years ago
by do_you_realise
I have finally got this in a FV, it's been there for a week now. I managed to get the OG to 1.062 which I thought was quite close for my first BIAB (should have been 1.064 IIRC).

There were a few hiccups - firstly I didn't experience 'hot break'; I suspect that the boil on our gas hobs (kitchen stove) was not vigorous enough. It measured 100 celsius on the thermometer and there was definitely movement on the surface but it didn't seem particularly vigorous. The volume reduced over time so there was definitely significant evaporation (as could be told from the water dripping down our kitchen walls! oops) but yeah, not sure how that will affect the beer? :dunno: Will it affect taste or just hazyness? I added 1/2tsp protofloc 5mins before the end of the boil so maybe that has saved my bacon slightly.

I had another minor hiccup when cooling: I had to use a new, much larger stock pot for the boil in order to cover two of the gas burners on my kitchen stove, which then didn't fit into my sink to cool! So I crossed my fingers and let it cool down overnight with the lid on. I really hope it hasn't introduced any nasties as that would be a really irritating way to bugger up my first all-grain beer. Time to start saving up for a propane burner and wort chiller I think...!

Hopefully final question: I can't quite work out how much I'm going to get into the bottling bucket so just wondering how much brewing sugar per litre would you recommend I add before I bottle this? I can't work out where it shows this on the spreadsheet.

Thanks!

Re: Recipe recommendation request for first BIAB brew!

Post #7 made 12 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
Hopefully this will help. It is a priming calculator from Northern Brewer that takes into account the style of beer and gives you different priming options.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/

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Post #9 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Sorry dyr that some of your questions above were missed. I and several others keep a pretty good eye on things here but can't remember seeing this thread before so I suppose some things slip through the cracks :dunno:.

Hot break is just the scum that appears on the surface of the wort as or soon after it reaches the boil as far as I am aware.

Cooling down overnight with the lid on will be fine with heaps of beer styles. Rate of chilling and chilling methods is advanced stuff that no one really has a good handle on. It is extremely unlikely you would get nasties in if you have a good fitting lid.

Congrats on your first brew,
PP
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Post #10 made 12 years ago
by do_you_realise
No worries! Thanks for picking up on them.

I was worried that there was no real hot break visible as such (I was expecting an immediate boil over as I've seen on various YouTube videos etc) but hopefully all is well.

The beer was cooled overnight but as far as I can tell it doesn't seem to have caught an infection, but only time will tell.

Just about to bottle this - I have been away and found that by the time I got back, the gravity was down at 1.010 which is surprising as the BIABacus sheet said it should end up at 1.020 (not sure why that high, maybe an error on the sheet somewhere). Waiting a day to see whether it drops any more and if not I'll bottle it with about 50g dextrose (as I will have about 10L of beer)

Taste-wise it seems to have possibly developed a kind of... maybe bready smell? I don't know whether that was due to my grain bill (I realised I bought Caramunich I rather than Munich I) or the wildly swinging temperatures this poor beer probably had to endure. In the heat(!) of the moment I pitched at 24C because I'd already transferred it into the FV by that point, and having sat out on the stove top all night cooling I was desperate to let the yeast at it to hopefully chase out any nasties. In hindsight it was probably swinging between 16 and 20 each day too - maybe sometimes even higher... oops. We are watching the pennies and can't warrant having the heating on permanently just for the sake of 10L of beer and 5L of cider.

Definitely need to look at better cooling/temperature control next time - maybe drag out the water bath and aquarium heater again and leave it in the coldest part of the house.

Post #11 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Sorry for another slow reply dyr,

The reason that the BIABacus said 1.020 is because it assumes a default attenuation of 75% and the higher the OG the higher the FG. Attenuation is affected by many things so don't get hung up on what any program's estimate.

I'd have to see your BIABacus file to know what yeast you used etc but a lot of ale yeasts will handle 24 C without causing you many problems. A bit of 'camping mat' foam and some freezer blocks changed once a day can go a long way though to maintain temperatures.

Some other questions I noticed that were missed...

1. The BIABacus has a priming calculator in it - section Q
2. The BIABacus will re-calculate based on AA percentage. You just type the AA's of the hops you have on the right hand side of Section D.

:peace:
PP
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Post #12 made 12 years ago
by do_you_realise
Finally tasted this and while going all-grain hasn't *completely* removed the "homebrew twang" I was trying to get rid of, it is at least 10x better than my can brews :) very happy! It has come out as more of an American Brown Ale rather than Pale but I am putting that down to buying Caramunich rather than Munich malt... does that make sense?

I would also add more hops to the flavour/aroma stages (maybe dry hop) if I did this again, as the hops are there but I would like more. Maybe I can go for a Sierra Nevada clone or something as that's more what I was hoping for. Perhaps a Torpedo clone.

I'm sure the homebrew twang can be removed with some work on cooling and temperature control.

Thanks for everyone's help. I'll probably be back soon to put together AG#02!
Last edited by do_you_realise on 06 Feb 2014, 20:30, edited 2 times in total.

Post #13 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
do_you_realise,
I'm sure the homebrew twang can be removed with some work on cooling and temperature control.
There is no such thing as "Twang" in all grain. (Twang) comes from extract kits and sorghum syrup if I recall correctly. A "metallic taste"? I think you are tasting something else? Can you describe it in more detail? You could look here http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html Maybe this could help define this off taste and we can work together to fix it!

Good luck! Your homework for tonight is to drink lots of beer and report back!
Last edited by BobBrews on 06 Feb 2014, 20:57, edited 2 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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Post #14 made 12 years ago
by mally
Some of mine can still come across with a taste that reminds me of when I did K&K. I cannot describe it, nor pinpoint the cause.
However, in the few that seem to show it, all it takes is a little more conditioning than normal.

If it is the same problem I get, just try them again in a month, then after another month. You may find it corrects itself with time?
The question is; is it bad enough to wait that long! ;)
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #15 made 12 years ago
by do_you_realise
Thanks Bob, I've seen similar lists in the past and have so far failed to fit it into any of the categories. If it wasn't such a PITA I'd suggest sending you a bottle through the post for diagnosis(!)

Is there anyone here in the UK who might volunteer to diagnose the source of this mystery unwanted flavour? If so, please feel free to give me a shout! Does beer travel well in the post...? Obviously it would get shaken about a bit and would need plenty of time to settle at the destination, but I wouldn't want to explode beer all over some poor sod's postbag!

In my kit beers the - let's just call it an unwanted flavour - was very pronounced in both smell and taste and was something which eventually caused me to pour them both down the drain. In this BIAB beer it is not really there when you drink it, there was just a faint smell in the background when you approach the glass to take a swig. Not a major concern but I'm just going to hope that either a) it disappears as the beer ages or b) I can eradicate it completely with better cooling/temperature control next time... i.e. mainly not panicking and pitching the yeast into 24C wort!

Mally:
mally wrote:You may find it corrects itself with time? The question is; is it bad enough to wait that long! ;)
Nope :D I am going to try to keep a few bottles back out of interest but what with this only being a 20 bottle batch, that might be tricky!
Last edited by do_you_realise on 06 Feb 2014, 21:57, edited 2 times in total.

Post #16 made 12 years ago
by mally
do_you_realise wrote:I would also add more hops to the flavour/aroma stages (maybe dry hop) if I did this again, as the hops are there but I would like more. Maybe I can go for a Sierra Nevada clone or something as that's more what I was hoping for. Perhaps a Torpedo clone.
You could always do a hop tea, or Bob's famous hop vodka, and add to your beer after pouring. This would give you 2 for the price of one;
i.e. increase hop flavour & aroma plus the hops will do a great job of masking the twang. Everyone's a winner :thumbs:
Last edited by mally on 06 Feb 2014, 23:26, edited 2 times in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #17 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
do_you_realise,

I really couldn't diagnose any beer in a taste test anyway. Last year about this time I fell while brewing. I was standing on (wet) ice trying to clean my keggle after a brew. As I lifted the keggle above my head and inverted it to dump out the StarSan away from my body. I said to myself, "Hey dummy, This is to heavy to dump out while standing on wet ice"!!! The next thing I knew. I was wandering around inside of my house seeing stars and wondering why I had a headache and coagulated blood stuck to my hair? :headhit:

To make a long story short (too late) I fell, knocked myself out cold. I don't know how long I laid there in the melting snow but...... I put my equipment back in the garage (most of it unwashed) and I put the car back in the garage! I did not remember doing anything! Total blank! One minute cleaning up, the next moment wandering around in a daze!

Over the next few days I had a excruciating headache. I went to the emergency room thinking I was dieing from some head trauma. After a brain scan in which the Doctor said "He found nothing" (he was waiting all day to get a good laugh in) He did say that I had a horrible sinus infection and that was what was so painful. A few pills later my pain went away (along with my sense of smell)

Since that fateful day. I don't smell very good. Honestly! You can ask anybody! Even shoppers waiting for their turn at check out. They look at me and say "you don't smell very good". It must be that? The word has gone out around town? How else would he know?

Anyway, I am still not smelling very good (sic) and along with that. My sense of taste is impaired! I cannot at this moment give fair estimation or judgment on any beer. However on the bright side, my beer has never tasted better! In short don't send me beer!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #18 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Just ignore BobBrews above. He is just trying to attract attention and make you feel sorry for him and then get you to PM him and then he gets your email and then he gives you his bank account details and asks you to send him money to pay for a nose operation. Is he genuine? Who nose?
do_you_realise wrote:Finally tasted this and while going all-grain hasn't *completely* removed the "homebrew twang" I was trying to get rid of, it is at least 10x better than my can brews :) very happy!

I'm sure the homebrew twang can be removed with some work on cooling and temperature control.
One thing I can't stand is homebrew twang. It's one of those things that a lot of palates aren't sensitive to - lucky them and good on them! I've put all-grain beers into comps with a twang and still scored silvers. No judge noticed!

Anyway, I'm still getting a bit of it now and then in some of my all-grain beers. Drives me up the wall.

I won't go into what I think maybe happening here until I hear some more info from you dyr. When you taste the beer, is the back of your mouth puckering? Are you smelling/tasting green apples or cider?
Last edited by PistolPatch on 09 Feb 2014, 20:56, edited 2 times in total.
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