I did my first batch, and IPA (SNPA inspired) and ended up with an OG of 1.044. I figured my efficiency was just lower than expected for the recipe and that I started with too much water in the kettle (8.25 gallons in a 40qt stockpot).
This weekend I decided to do a wheat beer and used a grain bill based on this recipe.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/bee-cav ... zen-35679/
I mashed at 154, mash out at 170, squeezed the hell out of the bag and boiled for an hour. I ended up with 6 gallons in the fermentor which is just right, but I only hit 1.042 measured right before I pitched at 75 f.
What should I be doing to get these numbers up. Higher grain bill, crush it a bit finer (with what?), or keep 2 gallons out of the mash and use that to sparge?
Post #2 made 13 years ago
philipforget,
Don't get to wrapped up about numbers just yet. Lot's of things can effect readings. Some as simple as bad measurements and faulty grain. The real measurement is how it tastes. Are you out to make measurements or good beer? Mission accomplished! Get a few more brews behind you (in you) and if your still low the people here will help you.
Don't get to wrapped up about numbers just yet. Lot's of things can effect readings. Some as simple as bad measurements and faulty grain. The real measurement is how it tastes. Are you out to make measurements or good beer? Mission accomplished! Get a few more brews behind you (in you) and if your still low the people here will help you.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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Post #3 made 13 years ago
Thanks Bob, I completely agree with the sentiment. There's no doubt I'll keep making beer but I'd still like to identify the weaknesses in my process and learn a bit more with each batch. It's not even a matter of wanting to hit the numbers but more so wondering what it is about my workflow that is giving me a different outcome than the recipe. Thanks for the reply!
Post #4 made 13 years ago
A few questions...
1)What was your desired end-of-boil volume and gravity for the two beers? What was the actual end-of-boil volume you achieved?
2)What was the temperature of wort when taking a hydrometer reading? Is it reading 1.000 with plain water?
Here are my suggestions. Keep digging around until you either, A)find out why your efficiency is low, or B)adjust your efficiency so that you're predictably hitting your numbers. No matter what you do to improve your brewing repeatability, there will be days when something didn't go right and your numbers will be off. To help yourself out for days like this you should get in the habit of checking gravity at the start of your boil (along with pre-boil volume). With these numbers you can be better equipped to deal with the situation (i.e., add DME to boost gravity or add water to decrease gravity, etc...)
1)What was your desired end-of-boil volume and gravity for the two beers? What was the actual end-of-boil volume you achieved?
2)What was the temperature of wort when taking a hydrometer reading? Is it reading 1.000 with plain water?
Here are my suggestions. Keep digging around until you either, A)find out why your efficiency is low, or B)adjust your efficiency so that you're predictably hitting your numbers. No matter what you do to improve your brewing repeatability, there will be days when something didn't go right and your numbers will be off. To help yourself out for days like this you should get in the habit of checking gravity at the start of your boil (along with pre-boil volume). With these numbers you can be better equipped to deal with the situation (i.e., add DME to boost gravity or add water to decrease gravity, etc...)
Post #5 made 13 years ago
Philipforget,
I would also suggest brewing the same recipe 2+ times in a row. I just bottled batch #3 of what is becomming my every day beer
. Multiple brews of the same beer, in the same volume, are giving me a good understanding of my brewing process and particulars. Im getting a good feel for how my equipmet works, how much water the grains soak up, my evaporation rate etc., etc., etc..
I plan to do one more brew (#4) of this same recipe. Then I feel Ill be able to brew other recipes with confidence in my system, and my BIAB knowledge.
I would also suggest brewing the same recipe 2+ times in a row. I just bottled batch #3 of what is becomming my every day beer
. Multiple brews of the same beer, in the same volume, are giving me a good understanding of my brewing process and particulars. Im getting a good feel for how my equipmet works, how much water the grains soak up, my evaporation rate etc., etc., etc.. I plan to do one more brew (#4) of this same recipe. Then I feel Ill be able to brew other recipes with confidence in my system, and my BIAB knowledge.
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
Bobbrews
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- BME Brewer With Over 5 Brews From United States of America
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Post #6 made 13 years ago
Hello BrickBrewHaus,
To answer your questions:
1. End of boil volume was 6.5 gallons, which was right on point for what I had calculated for evaporation and grain absorption (started with 8.25 gallons) I did not measure end of boil gravity before cooling.
2. The wort was at 75 f when I took the reading. I will check tonight if my meter is broken with some fresh water, I didn't think to do that.
I feel like I had a pretty substantial grain bill, I'm worried about how much more grain I'd have to add to get those higher numbers.
To answer your questions:
1. End of boil volume was 6.5 gallons, which was right on point for what I had calculated for evaporation and grain absorption (started with 8.25 gallons) I did not measure end of boil gravity before cooling.
2. The wort was at 75 f when I took the reading. I will check tonight if my meter is broken with some fresh water, I didn't think to do that.
I feel like I had a pretty substantial grain bill, I'm worried about how much more grain I'd have to add to get those higher numbers.
Post #7 made 13 years ago
Hey 2trout,
How different were your gravity readings between batches? I guess my worry is that no matter what I tweak I wont be able to add .010 points to my reading without changing something substantial. My boil volumes ended up being spot on.
How different were your gravity readings between batches? I guess my worry is that no matter what I tweak I wont be able to add .010 points to my reading without changing something substantial. My boil volumes ended up being spot on.
Post #8 made 13 years ago
Philip, you compensated for the 75F reading when working out your gravity.... Right?
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #9 made 13 years ago
Hey Stux! I did not... Looking at this chart http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixA.html I'd be adding about .0018 to my reading, which doesn't bump me much at all unless I'm reading that chart wrong.
Post #10 made 13 years ago
You got it.philipforget wrote:Hey Stux! I did not... Looking at this chart http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixA.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I'd be adding about .0018 to my reading, which doesn't bump me much at all unless I'm reading that chart wrong.
I asked just to be sure that you weren't taking the reading at a much hotter temp and not accounting for that in the final gravity value.
Last edited by BrickBrewHaus on 24 Jan 2012, 10:05, edited 3 times in total.
Post #11 made 13 years ago
Yep, check with BeerSmith, assuming your hydro is calibrated to 60F, it comes out to 1.044
Sorry, assumed 75 F was closer to 100F (its a celsius thing
)
I suspect your crush. Going to run your numbers through my CE Calc. Its obvious you're getting low efficiency... either the recipe is calculated on high efficiency, or your getting lower efficiency than you should be.
I would suspect your crush... or your thermometer!
Sorry, assumed 75 F was closer to 100F (its a celsius thing
)I suspect your crush. Going to run your numbers through my CE Calc. Its obvious you're getting low efficiency... either the recipe is calculated on high efficiency, or your getting lower efficiency than you should be.
I would suspect your crush... or your thermometer!
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #12 made 13 years ago
I went through your reported numbers, and entered your grain bill
4# Wey Pils, 7# Wey Wheat into CE Calc
Working backwards from the numbers I did have, I worked out your Kettle Loss as 0.97L, and your evaporation as 3.5L
So, Fermenter Volume was 22.7L (desired OG was 1.052)
And with the water volumes you have, the ce calculator is calling for a 5.11KG grain bill with a total mash volume of 34.81L
...
Expected Into Boil efficiency was 79.5%, expected into fermenter 76.21%
Anyway,
How much grain did you actually use?
Did you happen to measure your start of boil volume?
Thankyou
4# Wey Pils, 7# Wey Wheat into CE Calc
Working backwards from the numbers I did have, I worked out your Kettle Loss as 0.97L, and your evaporation as 3.5L
So, Fermenter Volume was 22.7L (desired OG was 1.052)
And with the water volumes you have, the ce calculator is calling for a 5.11KG grain bill with a total mash volume of 34.81L
...
Expected Into Boil efficiency was 79.5%, expected into fermenter 76.21%
Anyway,
How much grain did you actually use?
Did you happen to measure your start of boil volume?
Thankyou
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Last edited by stux on 24 Jan 2012, 11:45, edited 3 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #13 made 13 years ago
Hey Stux, thanks for taking the time to put those numbers in, I really appreciate it. I took a look at your sheet and the numbers are practically the same. My exact grain bill was:
8.5 # | 3.85 kg - Wheat
2.5 # | 1.13 kg - Honey Malt
2 # | 0.9 kg - Pilsner
13 # | 5.9 kg - Total
So it looks like I actually increased the grain bill by almost a kilogram.
I failed to note my preboil/post-mash volume. I will be sure to do so next batch.
I keep asking the guys at the store to put my grains through twice but they seem reluctant to do so. Perhaps I should be a bit more insistent. Has anyone tried putting them through the food processor a bit?
Once again, thanks for the reply!
8.5 # | 3.85 kg - Wheat
2.5 # | 1.13 kg - Honey Malt
2 # | 0.9 kg - Pilsner
13 # | 5.9 kg - Total
So it looks like I actually increased the grain bill by almost a kilogram.
I failed to note my preboil/post-mash volume. I will be sure to do so next batch.
I keep asking the guys at the store to put my grains through twice but they seem reluctant to do so. Perhaps I should be a bit more insistent. Has anyone tried putting them through the food processor a bit?
Once again, thanks for the reply!
Post #14 made 13 years ago
Oh and as for thermometer, I checked all my temps with two, a probe thermometer and a nice Thermapen and they both read the right temperatures.
Post #15 made 13 years ago
Good Day PhilipForgot, If the bag you have is fine cloth, versus "course", you can grind the grains to "meal", think Coarse grind Coffee.
This will give a bit of flour, which may block the bag in some places, but will increse the speed of conversion of starch, and possibile increase effeciency. Just my thoughts and experience.
This will give a bit of flour, which may block the bag in some places, but will increse the speed of conversion of starch, and possibile increase effeciency. Just my thoughts and experience.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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Post #16 made 13 years ago
The problem is you need the preboil/post mash volume to work out you absorption and evaporation
I'd also suggest double checking the weight of your delivered grains
Basically, if your grains are milled fine enough, all loss of mash efficiency is caused by absorption.
You can increase efficiency by boiling longer, 90 mins, which should allow a larger preboil volume and this absorption won't be so critical
I'd also suggest double checking the weight of your delivered grains
Basically, if your grains are milled fine enough, all loss of mash efficiency is caused by absorption.
You can increase efficiency by boiling longer, 90 mins, which should allow a larger preboil volume and this absorption won't be so critical
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #17 made 13 years ago
Thanks for the input Stux. I will be very careful and measure my post mash volume next batch. For bigger beers (1.060+) would it be worth trying to sparge the bag after mashing with a gallon or two of water at mahout temperature?
Post #18 made 13 years ago
if you use the CE calc you can work that out
When you enter your evaporation details, and OG it will tell you how much grain and what efficiency you *should* get if you manage 99% conversion
You can then enter a sparge figure and you will be able to see how that affects your grainbill and efficiency.
Also, if you do do a brew with that calculator and enter the values attained you will be able to pin-point where your efficiency problem is coming from.
its worth looking at the grain tab to see how I setup the grainbill
When you enter your evaporation details, and OG it will tell you how much grain and what efficiency you *should* get if you manage 99% conversion
You can then enter a sparge figure and you will be able to see how that affects your grainbill and efficiency.
Also, if you do do a brew with that calculator and enter the values attained you will be able to pin-point where your efficiency problem is coming from.
its worth looking at the grain tab to see how I setup the grainbill
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #19 made 13 years ago
Hey Stux,
I seem to be having a problem opening the sheet in OpenOffice. I'll give it another go tonight on my home computer. It complains about the macros not working. I'm assuming it's being created in Excel.
I know this is off-topic but if you would be interested I could port the calculator to something a bit more open. I am a software developer ( I make this http://www.readability.com ) and user interface designer. I'd love to get something in a more open format out there that might be easier to use for newer brewers. I'd just need to get the existing calculator working for me first
I seem to be having a problem opening the sheet in OpenOffice. I'll give it another go tonight on my home computer. It complains about the macros not working. I'm assuming it's being created in Excel.
I know this is off-topic but if you would be interested I could port the calculator to something a bit more open. I am a software developer ( I make this http://www.readability.com ) and user interface designer. I'd love to get something in a more open format out there that might be easier to use for newer brewers. I'd just need to get the existing calculator working for me first
Post #20 made 13 years ago
This ^
WWBBD?
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Post #21 made 13 years ago
My into fermenter gravity readings consistantly came closer to predicted the more brews I did. First brew was 1.034 I was shooting for 1.040. My 3rd was tight at 1.040 and final hit my predicted 1.008. I struggle with multiple variables and calculations so doing the same thing really helps me. Reducing my initial water volumes helped me hit my targets as did refining my process.philipforget wrote:Hey 2trout,
How different were your gravity readings between batches? I guess my worry is that no matter what I tweak I wont be able to add .010 points to my reading without changing something substantial. My boil volumes ended up being spot on.
Last edited by 2trout on 26 Jan 2012, 01:40, edited 3 times in total.
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
Bobbrews
-
- BME Brewer With Over 5 Brews From United States of America
-
Post #22 made 13 years ago
2trout,
I'm going to be very diligent about my water measurements for this next batch. Perhaps I'm starting with too much water or just not letting enough boil off. I'm also going to iodine test before mashing out to make sure I'm getting complete conversion. Thanks for the help!
I'm going to be very diligent about my water measurements for this next batch. Perhaps I'm starting with too much water or just not letting enough boil off. I'm also going to iodine test before mashing out to make sure I'm getting complete conversion. Thanks for the help!
Post #23 made 13 years ago
The sheet works in libreoffIce 3.4 but apparently has an issue after saving
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... 705#p16581
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... 705#p16581
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #24 made 13 years ago
In regards to the thread topic - For me the last thing I did for myself was to calibrate my US keggle and my sight glass. I can measure the distance with a measuring tape and calculate the volume at any time and/or I have a black o-ring pre-set on my final volume when it's at the chilled temperature. I know that evaporation still takes place after knock-out and I allow for that and I use an IC. So I tend to get my final volume each and every time. This helped me the most to get my numbers. If I'm a little short I wouldn't hesitate to add some top up water.
My chart takes it to the nearest 1/16" of and inch or about 2mm.
My chart takes it to the nearest 1/16" of and inch or about 2mm.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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