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80 Quart BIAB Kettle Questions (Please be gentle)

Post #1 made 12 years ago
by CheeseMoney
I'm ready to start all grain and BIAB looks like the way to go. I'd like to make both 5G and 10G batches (heavy--mostly strong Belgians and Double IPAs). I'd like to do both immersion chilling and no-chill in a cube.

I was going to pull the trigger on a Bayou Classic 82 QT (w/ Boil Basket) from Amazon.com for $177.49.

but then I found an 80 QT Stainless Steel Stock Pot from brewbrothers.biz for $180 made of slightly thicker steel (18gauge vs 20 gauge) and they will drill and install a ball valve at no additional cost (other than the cost of the valve/fittings).

Options are:

Ball Valve Kit - Standard (3/8" Inside Diameter) $25 ($56 w/ a Kettle Screen)
Ball Valve Kit - Full Port (1/2" Inside Diameter) $47 ($72 w/ a Kettle Screen)

I've already DIY'd a stir plate and a temp control and I don't think my drill will cut through SS (drill is on its last legs). Drilling into a $180 kettle doesn't sound appealing.

1) Has anyone used this kettle from BrewBrothers.biz?
2) Do I want standard or full port?
3) Does a kettle screen help or hurt for BIAB? If it matters I plan to whirlpool.
4) Can someone explain to me what type of pickup tube or internal fittings I need if I want to whirlpool then go through the ball valve into the no-chill cube? Don't want to melt my auto-siphon with scorching wort but don't understand how to avoid trub with a valve.
5) Will I miss having a bucket if I go with this BrewBrothers option?

I've been suffering from analysis paralysis far too long and would like to pull the trigger. Thanks if you took the time to read this far.
Last edited by CheeseMoney on 20 Jun 2013, 14:17, edited 2 times in total.

Post #2 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
That is great that you are getting under way CM :thumbs:.

That is a great size kettle you have chosen - I have almost the same and they serve me well. Here is what I do with my kettles.

I'm not familiar with what the difference is between a standard and full-port ball-valve is sorry. I have ball-valves on my kettles but am generally against them if you chill your wort. A search on posts made by me that contain the word, 'ball-valves', should inform you of what to watch out for.

Also read this post re pick up tube. I don't think you will need a kettle screen.

Also, use your BIAB bag as a hop sock. This works well.

Finally, you mentioned you were going to whirlpool but you also mentioned melting your auto-syphon. Are you no-chilling or chilling?

Not sure on Q5 about missing a bucket. As far as I am concerned., the less vessels you have the better.

:lol:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 20 Jun 2013, 18:54, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #3 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
CheeseMoney,

Why not just get a beer keg and use that for a pot? You will have no qualms about drilling then. The keg is cheap and you can brew big batches with it! I use a simple ball valve and it works great! Here is my simple rig look here. http://www.stempski.com/biab.php
Last edited by BobBrews on 20 Jun 2013, 20:48, edited 2 times in total.
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tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

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Post #5 made 12 years ago
by CheeseMoney
Bob, thanks for the link (already had it bookmarked btw, very useful). I'm trying to keep this simple and don't really have the means to grind a keg. Thought a kettle might be easier.

Post #6 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
CheeseMoney,

My keg cost $35. I used my dad's old Dremmel to cut the top off. I broke a few blades but over all it was easy.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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Post #7 made 12 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
I would recommend a 3 piece ball valve, where you can break it down after each brew, such as bargainfittings.com. They have great customer service too.

It is a full port and like the ones you see on the Blichmann's.
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Post #9 made 12 years ago
by CheeseMoney
Mad_Scientist wrote:You would have a hoot to diy a keg. You can look at mine for inspiration too, in my signature.

Cheers
BobBrews wrote:CheeseMoney,

My keg cost $35. I used my dad's old Dremmel to cut the top off. I broke a few blades but over all it was easy.
Both of your Keg setups look great but I'd like to be able to brew a 10 Gallon Double IPA so I'd prefer the 80 Quart Vessel for the extra headroom. I'm not rich but going from $50 (going rate here for a keg) to $100 for a new stock pot won't break me. I should add that I found a guy selling 80 QT stockpots here for about $110.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONCORD-80-QT-S" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 20b9283220
Finally, you mentioned you were going to whirlpool but you also mentioned melting your auto-syphon. Are you no-chilling or chilling?
I'm going to do both--probably chill IPAs and no-chill when time is short.
Last edited by CheeseMoney on 21 Jun 2013, 04:00, edited 2 times in total.

Post #10 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
CheeseMoney
but I'd like to be able to brew a 10 Gallon Double IPA so I'd prefer the 80 Quart Vessel for the extra headroom.
A Half barrel is 15.5 gallons that's 62 quarts (58 Liters). I can brew ten gallon batches with a vigorous boil. Maybe I misunderstood?
Last edited by BobBrews on 21 Jun 2013, 19:55, edited 2 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #11 made 12 years ago
by CheeseMoney
I'm probably the one who misunderstood. I'm looking at the BIABacus and it tells me that 80 quarts isn't even enough to mash 33 Lbs of grain (say, a double IPA at 1.090). I realize that boiloff is a bit more with a kettle than a keggle, but we're just talking mashing at this part. Maybe someone can help me understand the math.

Post #12 made 12 years ago
by joshua
My understanding is you will need .75 quarts of water for each pound of grain(24.75 quarts) and 40 quarts for the finished volume.
Total of 64.75 quarts leaving you with 15.25 quarts for loss (boil-off, hops, hot/cold break-Trub, and water expansion at mash).

Can you post the BIABacus file???

I may have missed somthing, but Bob Brews, does brew!
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #13 made 12 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
I feel I'm max'ed out my keggle at 27# getting a 1.074 OG; that's using the BIABacus - got a 10.5 G EOBV-A, 5 L KFL and a 9.25 G VIF @ 79% EOBE and 69% EIF efficiency. That included a 2 G MAXI - water added before the boil. Also a 1.75 qt/lb liquor to grain ratio.
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Post #14 made 12 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
I could get a 1.079 as a maximum.

I forgot to mention that I have been zeroing in on the Section X, auto efficiency, this is with it set to 9%. PP told me to go for 10%. But my hard head tried 0% first, then 6%. My next brew this month will be at 9%, I feel that will be spot on, as I have been making the same recipe, Dead Guy.

Maybe you can add some DME to make up that difference. :argh:
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Post #16 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
CheeseMoney,

Your going to do a 33 pound (15 Kilos) BIAB? That is too much! I had trouble trying to lift a 18 pound bag with (spent grain + wort) using a pulley! Split the batch man! Maybe I am missing something here. I must confess to perusing over some posts on a busy day!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #17 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Please bookmark this because they are essential points that all older members of the site should now be starting to become aware of.
CheeseMoney wrote:I'm probably the one who misunderstood. I'm looking at the BIABacus and it tells me that 80 quarts isn't even enough to mash 33 Lbs of grain (say, a double IPA at 1.090). I realize that boiloff is a bit more with a kettle than a keggle, but we're just talking mashing at this part. Maybe someone can help me understand the math.
There is a lot of stuff going on here Cheese ;)...

1. Firstly, high gravity brews are not a BIAB problem. They are also a three-vessel problem...

2. The BIABacus is the only 'software' you will find that addresses this issue. In other words, if you discard the BIABacus and use another program, it will tell you that you can brew as much of a brew that has an OG of 1.040 as you would if you brewed with one of 1.090. This is incorrect.

3. What the other programs don't consider is how much water comes into contact with the grain. In other words, they assume that whether you wash the grain in one gallon or five gallons of water, you will still get the same end result. If you wash your jeans in 1 litre of water will they end up as clean as if you washed them in 20 litres?

4. It also does not matter whether the grains 'see' the water in a mash or a sparge. You can mash in 10 litres and then do two sparges of 5 litres or you can do one mash of 18 litres and one sparge of 2 litres or you can do one mash of 20 litres. Your jeans will come out as clean. (The only reasons your clothes washing machine doesn't do a 'full volume', one cycle wash is because the machine would have to be so big as would the motor!)

The above info is something that you will only find on this site but it is info that is currently buried away and hard to find.

Does this post help Cheese?
:scratch:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 22 Jun 2013, 22:02, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #18 made 12 years ago
by joshua
PP, and Cheese, There is a very old theory, that states, fill a bottle/tub with the TOTAL(TWN)water needed.

Instead of Single-Infusion, install the bag, dump the Grains(with love,) add enough of the TOTAL water to fill the kettle 2 or 3cm from the edge, and strart heating.

Step Mash or just heat the kettle until your at your mash temperature.

Just before Mash-Out, heat the remaining total water(on the stove?) to near 178F/80C, and at Mashout, Maxi-BIAB/Sparge, or just add the water to the kettle, and go on to the Boil.....

Of course, BIABACUS can tell you the TWN...
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #19 made 12 years ago
by mally
Sorry Cheesemoney, this is off topic; but....

Shock!!!!
Your going to do a 33 pound (15 Kilos) BIAB? That is too much! I had trouble trying to lift a 18 pound bag with (spent grain + wort) using a pulley!
This, coming from the current Wisconsin "Huge Arms" champion :shock:
Last edited by mally on 23 Jun 2013, 03:16, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #20 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
CheeseMoney wrote:... but we're just talking mashing at this part.
Cheese, I sort of missed this bit in my last post and I'm also not entirely sure what your question is so if our answers aren't making sense, keep asking. For now...

In pure BIAB (single vessel, full-volume mashing), we are not just mashing, we are also passively sparging (rinsing) the grain at the same time. This means in our kettle we have to fit all the water we will be using for our brew and all the grain. A three vessel kettle only has to fit all the water needed for the brew less that water/wort retained by the grain. In other words, a BIAB kettle has to be slightly bigger than a three-vessel kettle to do the same brew.

This difference in size depends on the gravity of the brew. For example, a low gravity brew won't have much grain so the two kettles could be much closer in size as compared to if they were doing high gravity brews.

This relates to my last post, (drunk and tired :)), which if worded differently, basically says... if you want to brew a 1.090 gravity brew, you will not need twice the amount of grain you would use for a 1.045 brew, you actually need much more as your ability to extract sugars from the grain decreases. You have a catch 22 of needing more and more grain, taking up more and more space, just to get a bit of extra gravity.

You can bend the single vessel rule.

If you find your kettle being too small for a brew, you can bend the three-vessel rule. Section W in the BIABacus allows this. Anything you do there though has a cost to it which may include one or all of the following - more work, more vessels and more ingredients.

In Section W, the only time it might be worth using 'Water USed in a Sparge' (costing you more work and vessels), is in the case of very high gravity brew where the amount of grain is taking away from kettle space that could be otherwise used to wash the grain. [Do not translate this as, "sparging increases efficiency" as that is a big distortion of the truth. What increases efficiency is avoiding the use of any water dilutions.]

Water dilutions can also be used but these come at the cost of increasing the grain bill, and to an extent, the hop bill, required. The dilution called 'Water Added to the Fermentor' and to a lesser degree, 'Water Added During the Boil' can also affect the quality/integrity of the brew. The BIABacus has some built in warning to keep you sensible.

There's a fair bit to take in above so have a beer and take your time. Playing with the BIABacus will also help you see how the above things inter-relate with each other.

Hope this helps a bit more than my last answer :peace:,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 23 Jun 2013, 17:56, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #21 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
Mally

I am on a tablet so typing is a pain. Yes, I cannot lift much more than a big beer stein. I have become a weakling. Man i hate this tablet! I can't wait to get back in my office! So long for now!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:: I am back in my office my guests are on their way home. Now that it is comfortable to type I have nothing to say? :sad:
Last edited by BobBrews on 23 Jun 2013, 21:26, edited 2 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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