Ice bath method is likely going to take many hours and a LOT of ice, not really practical....trust me. If you insist on chilling, you'll need to fabricate or obtain a chiller (immersion type is the cheapest). Here's a suggestion: Investigate no-chill. You simply drain (if you have a ball valve) or siphon the near boiling wort into an appropriate HDPE container, seal it up, and allow it to cool on it's own. You can then pitch the yeast the following day, or let it sit for weeks/months until you get around to fermenting it. (I've got an ESB in a no-chill cube that I brewed 2 months ago!)

There is actually an active discussion about this going on right now here. Another option for no-chill is to simply put the lid on your pot after the heat is turned off, perhaps clamp it or seal it up with some plastic wrap, and let it sit overnight to cool.

A ball valve is going to be a welcome addition to a pot that size unless you really enjoy siphoning. Siphoning is possible but you'll have to cool the wort first or use stainless/high temp silicone siphoning gear.

---Todd

Todd, I haven’t got as far as investigating no chill yet.

As I might have mentioned, I ferment in the brew kettle (done about 15 batches that way). I also leave the hops in for the ferment. I was interested in your leave the lid on and pitch the next morning suggestion, as I don’t really enjoy sanitising and using the chiller. My concern is that I late hop and I’m keen to preserve the hop flavour. How much of the hop flavour would I lose do you think if I did that, and roughly how much do you recon the bitterness would increase?

How important is it to seal the lid if it is just overnight?

Thanks

Guinges, I have some data you might like..

If you add Bitterness hops at flame out, the Times and Utilizetion is almost the same as boiling, down to a temperature of 154F/68C. Which could take more than 1 hour to drop.

If you drop the Flavor hops in a flame out, the Utilization will be MUCH HIGHER due to nothing being boiled off. Also, flavor development drops a lot below 154F/68C.

So what I am working on is adding Bitteness hops anytime during the Boil and removing them after flame-out.
And adding flavor hops only after flameout for Some time less than 1.5 hours.

The reason I am doing this strange experiment is to get Full hop usage with a boil that last just long enough to drive out the DMS. (Normally around 35 minutes)

Can't really speak to the "sealing the lid" thing, I use no-chill containers and drain the pot immediately after flame out. Perhaps someone else can chime in here?

Good Day, I have "sealed the entire kettle except for an air lock(Look up "Vacuum Implosion").

Now, a sanitzed towel sits in the kettles lid, with no air lock. So far NO problems!

joshua wrote:Guinges, I have some data you might like..

If you add Bitterness hops at flame out, the Times and Utilizetion is almost the same as boiling, down to a temperature of 154F/68C. Which could take more than 1 hour to drop.

If you drop the Flavor hops in a flame out, the Utilization will be MUCH HIGHER due to nothing being boiled off. Also, flavor development drops a lot below 154F/68C.

So what I am working on is adding Bitteness hops anytime during the Boil and removing them after flame-out.
And adding flavor hops only after flameout for Some time less than 1.5 hours.

The reason I am doing this strange experiment is to get Full hop usage with a boil that last just long enough to drive out the DMS. (Normally around 35 minutes)

Joshua, That’s the kind of stuff I was wondering about, so that is really helpful. Thanks very much.

With the late hopping, I’m using 6oz Cascade hops (5gal/20L batch) for both bittering and flavour, with a single 15 minute addition. If I had a rough idea how much the no-chill would impact both aspects of hopping, I would then know how much to reduce that 15 minutes by. Sounds like a single flame out addition might be the thing.

That would make for a really quick extract brew: dissolve the DME, heat to hot break, flame out, chuck in the hops, put the lid on, and pitch yeast in the morning.

Thanks for advising about the lid. That’s what I suspected.

Thanks also Todd for your reply.

502brews. I think I may have the same Bayou Classic pot as you do. Is it the one in the picture? I’m in love with it!

All,

I have been doing lots of hopping experiments in the last year. I just love hops! I visit hop farms and I grow my own hops. Three varieties, Cascade, Willamette, Nugget and (E.K. Goldings Fuggles). Wait that's four! I am so bad at numbers! Personally I am narrowing down my hopping schedule (at the moment) to this.

I traditionally have been putting my bittering hops in at about the 60 minute mark. Lately I have been putting them in at 40 minutes into the boil. I seem to be getting the bittering I need without the extra time in the boil. The way I am doing this is using my hop spider so that all my hops stay in the hop sack. The bittering hops go into the sack at 40 minutes. That gives them 20 or more minutes to isomerize. The flavoring hops go in the sack at 45,50,55 and flame out (if needed). As the Irish moss does it's thing I pull the sack (squeezing) and then drain the whole shebang into the no-chill container.

This way I am keeping the flavor hops (late hops) in the wort just long enough to extract the aroma and not long enough to isomerize. Not letting them go into the no-chill were they will stay too long in the hot wort and be isomerized. You want the isomerization for the bittering hops but not the flavor hops. If the flavor hops are left in the wort long enough to isomerize than the aroma is gone by that time wasting the fragrance.

The hop sack may lessen the amount of hop utilization but it keeps all hop material out of the wort. If I use 4 or 5 ounces of hops then all the hops are in the trash with the sack and not in my trube. The trube sits in my cube most of the time and in the past lots of my hops were in there. I might have not lost the aroma because it was in the cube but I had extra bittering screwing up my calculations. I still dry hop the daylights out of the beer but late hoping with dry hoping seems to be the winning combination.

This probably is written poorly and ill thought out but (so far) it seems to be working? What I think it boils down to this. ANYWAY you do it seems to work! With all the variations in home brewing whatever works for you, do it.

This is a picture of somebodies hop spider. Not mine!

Guinges, "really quick extract brew: dissolve the DME, heat to hot break, flame out, chuck in the hops, put the lid on, and pitch yeast in the morning."

That is a way many people are calling "20 minute Beer" 15 minutes 1 day, 5 minutes the next!

6oz/171gr of Cascade in 5gallon/23L of beer for 15min boil gives 62IBU OR 60total gives 137IBU!!!

You may want to use 2oz/47Gr and get 21 IBU @15min, or 41 IBU for 1 hour.

Of Course if you use the Hop stack or an old bag it takes about 60 minutes for bitter hop isomerization.

SO, if you tossed the Bittering into the wort 15 minute before "Flame out" and left the hop bag in to 45 minute AFTER "flame out", you should get 41IBU @ 2oz. or 20 IBU @ 1oz.(total 60 minutes)

Now flavor Hops boil out Above 194F/88C so if you wait until then It seems you will get flavor after 20 minutes and more the longer there in there, until the Temperature drops below 154F/68C, ths will add another 20 IBU @ 2oz. or 12 IBU @ 1oz(20minutes)

Lastly, the best way to get Aroma is to add the Aroma hops into the Fermenter after the Foaming is gone, or the Co2 will boil the Aroma away..AS BB calls it "Dry Hopping"

I hope this is clearer than Mud..........

Hi Joshua, according to Beersmith that I designed in, it’s 52 IBU with the 15 min boil, and I love it that way. You have to put all the ingredients into any program I think otherwise the IBUs go off the scale. Doesn’t matter any way, how many IBUs, I like it, maybe I’m a hop junkie. My wife loves it too. Someone said (remembering back to their younger days) “it was like pot on a good day!” I’ll spend some time looking at your figures. Thanks again for your help.

Ps. I’m doing hop bursting here, which is quite different from your process. I know I keep harping on about it, but it really does make delicious beer, and I’m not going back. Huge amounts of flavour, so the impact of CO2 bubbling off is less significant. If anyone is interested there is a great intro here. Also I leave the hops in for the ferment which has other flavour advantages.

Been doing some Googling.

From here

OK, so been doing some reading about the No-Chill method.
Even though there seems to be a debate against the whole thing which requires dredging through an endless amount of irrelivent posts to get the IBU info you're after, from what I can gather, the theory is to take 20min off your additions.

So a 60min addition = 40min
A 20min addition = 0min
Flame out can be done the next day with a few litres of wort.
And dry hop as normal.

Although,
I read about Ross's theory of chilling the wort to about 70c-80c after the boil and keeping all your normal additions as if you were to chill, and then dumping the wort into the cube. At this temp the wort would\should still pasturise your cube.

This, for me, means I can appease my paranoia from my immersion chiller causing my infection as well as keep my IBU's accurate to my recipes.
I'm thinking this is the road I will take in the future..

Just wondering what the standard is for you filthy dirty no-chillers?

Cheers,

BF



« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 03:06:43 PM by Beer_Fingers »

Sounds straight forward. But if you read on through the thread, It's the muddiest mud I've read in a long time.

ps. Read most of that thread. I think I'm going to have to continue chilling my hop bursted IPA to preserve the hop flavour.

pps On this topic, I like #23 on this thread http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1341

502Brews, if you get a BIG pot, and still have a smaller pot.

Mash in the BIG pot, divide the wort at mashout onto the smaller pot, and then you can try 2 different hop schedules.

Just a thoght....

502brews wrote:Hey...thanks to everyone for their replies. Very helpful feedback.
I have to say I'm probably going to try the no chill method on my first batch. In my head it only made sense that I was going to need to figure out something different to chill the wort since it's such a large pot. I've seen discussions on no chill and think I'd like to see how it works for me. If I don't like it or don't get favorable results, I can always build an immersion chiller and go that route.

Guinges, it's not exactly the same pot. Mine is just a stock pot so there is no false bottom and I'll need to install the ball valve myself. I got it for right at $100 though so I'm thrilled to have a pot that big. I've seen a lot of good feedback on the Bayou Classic line of pots so I'm excited to brew a batch in this pot. I got the bigger pot so I could make some double batches and pitch different yeasts to experiement a bit. I want to start developing my own recipes rather than brewing other people's so wish me luck. I have a feeling I'm going to need it.

502Brews, You may not need to install a ball valve. I’ve noticed some anti-ball-valve sentiment on here, and its tricky drilling stainless.

I bought quite a bit of hardware from this Canadian company Here. When I started making up beer recipes, I looked at their all grain kits to get some general ideas. You can click on a pdf recipe for each one, and quite a few of them are award winning beers.

Try to keep it simple maybe. Making things simple is often a hard thing to do (I don’t think BIAB came easily). You can make a pretty fantastic SMaSH (single malt and single hop) beer.

I’d wish you luck, but I don’t think you are going to need it.

GR,

Like you I looked up as much as I could about no-chill and as far as I can tell the hop addition schedule you were referring to originates on here:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/explori ... ost1542375

That was the last time The Pol posted his research on no-chill hop addition adjustments. I started no-chilling about 6 batches ago and just followed normal hop addition schedules. I've just used it on lower hopped brews and am a little leery of trying it on more hop-centric recipes. Beer has turned out great so far and it's great being able to group brew days together and store the wort until ready to ferment.

I haven't put a valve on my kettle (partially because of PP's bias against them) and I just use a stainless racking cane and silicone tubing to siphon the near-boiling wort to my cube.

All,

I have been doing lots of hopping experiments in the last year. I just love hops! I visit hop farms and I grow my own hops. Three varieties, Cascade, Willamette, Nugget and (E.K. Goldings Fuggles). Wait that's four! I am so bad at numbers! Personally I am narrowing down my hopping schedule (at the moment) to this.

Bob, i have started a new thread here for anybody that has hop growing knowledge. I would love to hear of any tips you have.