Refractometer
Post #1 made 14 years ago
I have just purchased a Refractometer. Can't believe how easy it makes taking SG's. Should have got one years ago!
Post #2 made 14 years ago
.....waiting for PP's comment. 
(I like mine too)
(I like mine too)
WWBBD?
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Post #3 made 14 years ago
Did you ever check your Refractometer against your hydrometer?
I have just done it and find that the Refractometer is apparently reading about 8 gravity points high, when compared to 3 of my existing hydrometers.
Yes I did calibrate with distilled water. Very strange!
I have just done it and find that the Refractometer is apparently reading about 8 gravity points high, when compared to 3 of my existing hydrometers.
Yes I did calibrate with distilled water. Very strange!
Post #4 made 14 years ago
[See you just posted Shifter, so you are already on the journey 
.]
And here I am thughes
...
Howdy Shifter
,
What I think you'll need to do is, at least initially, use your refractometer in conjunction with your hydrometer. A refractometer is essentially a tool that is used in situations such as a vineyard. You walk through the vineyard, take lots of samples from lots of grapes (which are at ambient temperature unlike boiling wort) and then the average tells you how the crop is coming along. Measuring one grape from a whole vineyard tells you little.
Taking a small sample from several gallons of beer can also cause problems. A bit of muck in the sample will throw your reading. Layering of the wort will affect your reading. How you cool the sample will affect your reading. How long you leave it in the refractometer will affect your reading - it rises over time.
I've had brew days and asked everyone to write down the refractometer reading and have had several different answers. So, it's a tool that needs to be used carefully. (I only use my refractometer now if another brewer comes around so as I can show them these little quirks.)
Even using them to take small samples from your fermentor is risky due to the layering that occurs in fermentors.
Because of all the above, I really find a hydrometer with a nice wide jar, the most practical tool. Take a mug of wort from the boil etc, cover it with wrap (to prevent evaporation), let it cool and take your reading. Return the sample to the boil. In the fermentor, after aeration and pitching, you can take another sample and let it sit in your hydrometer for the whole fermentation. This allows you to see on a daily basis, what is happening in the main fermentor and will tell you when fermentation is complete.
So, learn to use the refractometer in conjunction with your hydrometer so as you get a feel for what samples are good (eg - no bubbles and no muck), how to cool the sample etc and just treat it as a guide rather than a god.
I remember being excited when I first bought a hydrometer (and a thousand other things) that after a while, weren't what I hoped they'd be. All part of the fun . I don't think it's a waste of money for you as it will teach you a good disrespect for single measurements and this is, honestly, a great thing to learn as fast as possible.
Play with it, experiment with it and you'll have some fun and learn a heap so all's good mate.
Cheers Shifter,
PP
.]And here I am thughes
...Howdy Shifter
,What I think you'll need to do is, at least initially, use your refractometer in conjunction with your hydrometer. A refractometer is essentially a tool that is used in situations such as a vineyard. You walk through the vineyard, take lots of samples from lots of grapes (which are at ambient temperature unlike boiling wort) and then the average tells you how the crop is coming along. Measuring one grape from a whole vineyard tells you little.
Taking a small sample from several gallons of beer can also cause problems. A bit of muck in the sample will throw your reading. Layering of the wort will affect your reading. How you cool the sample will affect your reading. How long you leave it in the refractometer will affect your reading - it rises over time.
I've had brew days and asked everyone to write down the refractometer reading and have had several different answers. So, it's a tool that needs to be used carefully. (I only use my refractometer now if another brewer comes around so as I can show them these little quirks.)
Even using them to take small samples from your fermentor is risky due to the layering that occurs in fermentors.
Because of all the above, I really find a hydrometer with a nice wide jar, the most practical tool. Take a mug of wort from the boil etc, cover it with wrap (to prevent evaporation), let it cool and take your reading. Return the sample to the boil. In the fermentor, after aeration and pitching, you can take another sample and let it sit in your hydrometer for the whole fermentation. This allows you to see on a daily basis, what is happening in the main fermentor and will tell you when fermentation is complete.
So, learn to use the refractometer in conjunction with your hydrometer so as you get a feel for what samples are good (eg - no bubbles and no muck), how to cool the sample etc and just treat it as a guide rather than a god.
I remember being excited when I first bought a hydrometer (and a thousand other things
) that after a while, weren't what I hoped they'd be. All part of the fun . I don't think it's a waste of money for you as it will teach you a good disrespect for single measurements and this is, honestly, a great thing to learn as fast as possible.Play with it, experiment with it and you'll have some fun and learn a heap so all's good mate
.Cheers Shifter,
PP
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Post #5 made 14 years ago
The refractometer (the instrument itself) has to be at about the same temperature of the sample and both have do be within the operating temperature range of the refractometer. What I mean is that if I bring the refractometer up from the basement (55F) to the kitchen (68F) I have to wait until the body of the refractometer warms up to the ambient temperature of the kitchen (and also cool the ample liquid to @ the same temperature) or I get very inaccurate readings.
I have compared my fracto reading to my hydro and they seem to be spot on (after correcting for temperature with the hydro reading). As Patch will point out though, you are only reading the gravity of a TINY portion of the wort and this can prove quite inaccurate. I use mine for taking quick readings before/during/after the boil and use the hydrometer for my "official" reading.
Also remember that the refractometer cannot accurately read gravity once the wort has begun fermenting (alcohol skews the reading).There are calculators available to compensate for this though.
A refractometer is just another tool, understand its limits and use it where appropriate.
I have compared my fracto reading to my hydro and they seem to be spot on (after correcting for temperature with the hydro reading). As Patch will point out though, you are only reading the gravity of a TINY portion of the wort and this can prove quite inaccurate. I use mine for taking quick readings before/during/after the boil and use the hydrometer for my "official" reading.
Also remember that the refractometer cannot accurately read gravity once the wort has begun fermenting (alcohol skews the reading).There are calculators available to compensate for this though.
A refractometer is just another tool, understand its limits and use it where appropriate.
WWBBD?
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Post #6 made 14 years ago
"A refractometer is just another tool, understand its limits and use it where appropriate."
Yeah but it is so much fun having the neighbors think you are spying on them when you read it!!
Yeah but it is so much fun having the neighbors think you are spying on them when you read it!!
AWOL
Post #7 made 14 years ago
I stopped using my refrac because I found it too spotty and I only need two hydro measurements anyway
Start of boil and end of boil
And none of the samples get wasted. SOB goes back in the boil, EOB goes into the trub bottle that I decant and use for a starter.
The SOB sample is cooled to about 40C and then calibrated to 20C
The EOB sample actually cools to ambient
Start of boil and end of boil
And none of the samples get wasted. SOB goes back in the boil, EOB goes into the trub bottle that I decant and use for a starter.
The SOB sample is cooled to about 40C and then calibrated to 20C
The EOB sample actually cools to ambient
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #8 made 14 years ago
I bought a refrac. It's been in the bin for over 24 months. I get much better accuracy from a hydrometer.
I actually found the refrac could be manipulated to get a desired reading. Useless piece of bling.
I'm now considering giving the hydro away. I know my brews come out within a point or 2 of where they are meant to be and if I allow the ferment to go for 14 days, FG will be ~1.010.
Time to live on the edge.
I actually found the refrac could be manipulated to get a desired reading. Useless piece of bling.
I'm now considering giving the hydro away. I know my brews come out within a point or 2 of where they are meant to be and if I allow the ferment to go for 14 days, FG will be ~1.010.
Time to live on the edge.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #9 made 14 years ago
Maybe I have just been lucky but my refractometer readings always match up with my hydrometer within a point or so.
I usualy take a reading at start of boil and end of boil. I stick the pipette in the freezer for a little bit to cool off a little then take a reading.
I use my hydrometer when I drain from no chill cube to double check end of boil is accurate.
I usualy take a reading at start of boil and end of boil. I stick the pipette in the freezer for a little bit to cool off a little then take a reading.
I use my hydrometer when I drain from no chill cube to double check end of boil is accurate.
Post #10 made 14 years ago
just took a post fermentation reading of my Munich Helles - (Nev's Tettnang Pilsner) - PP's Favourite! recipe
hydrometer read 1.010 at 4C (which means 1.009)
refractometer, after using correction formula read 1.0097 (formula from here: http://seanterrill.com/2011/04/07/refra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... g-results/)
close enough for me.
hydrometer read 1.010 at 4C (which means 1.009)
refractometer, after using correction formula read 1.0097 (formula from here: http://seanterrill.com/2011/04/07/refra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... g-results/)
close enough for me.
Last edited by shibolet on 15 Jan 2012, 03:26, edited 3 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
Post #11 made 14 years ago
there great... until pre-boil pegs the thing above 32 brix.. :(
MoRdAnTlY [Mr. Wolf '91 - '11]
Refractometer
Post #12 made 14 years ago
Santa got me one. I haven't used it yet , but I'm not sure if I'll bother now.... Thanx for Fu(€ing up my Christmas present PP 
L
L
Post #13 made 14 years ago
Use it!PP is a big PIA, 
when he's got an old bone in his mouth he won't let it go.Refracs are cool 
,just not always accurate enough when used down under.
when he's got an old bone in his mouth he won't let it go.Refracs are cool ,just not always accurate enough when used down under. AWOL
Post #14 made 14 years ago
Lylo is right, they work just fine if you are located north of the Equator.
---Todd
---Todd
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Post #16 made 14 years ago
Just make sure if you have one that you learn to use it at first in conjunction with your hydro until you get consistent results. Make sure that you have it calibrated correctly and use the pipette. This applies in both hemispheres
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Post #17 made 14 years ago
PP,what is the advantage of the pipette?I usually just put a drop on from my stir stick let it cool for a minute and read.When I first got it I did a lot of comparisons against my hydro and found them close enough for me.
As a disclaimer I will add that I use the hydro for start of boil gravity(take a sample and read it later after clean up)and post boil gravity which I take when I transfer from my cube.These are the numbers I actually right down.The refrac are more for my own amusement as I watch the mash do its magic, and lets me decide to turn of the boil or let it go for a while longer.
As a disclaimer I will add that I use the hydro for start of boil gravity(take a sample and read it later after clean up)and post boil gravity which I take when I transfer from my cube.These are the numbers I actually right down.The refrac are more for my own amusement as I watch the mash do its magic, and lets me decide to turn of the boil or let it go for a while longer.
AWOL
Post #18 made 14 years ago
I think, Lylo, but am not sure of a lot of things about refractometers so I like this thread.
For example, on the pipette bit....
I was shown to read a refractometer by simply dipping a teaspoon into the wort. The brewer who taught me this was a god to me. Why should I doubt him? (It also happened that he sold refractometers and a lot of other unnecessary things I bought).
When you think about it though, how can a teaspoon dipped in wort at 100 C give you an accurate reading? There will be instantaneous/untold evaporation for a start. In other words, the reading will be high even if it were suddenly reduced to room temperature.
The same goes for when you leave the sample in the refraactometer over time. It goes up because water evaporates out the sides.
A pipette reduces these anomalies.
You see what I mean about learning how to use it?
PP
For example, on the pipette bit....
I was shown to read a refractometer by simply dipping a teaspoon into the wort. The brewer who taught me this was a god to me. Why should I doubt him? (It also happened that he sold refractometers and a lot of other unnecessary things I bought
).When you think about it though, how can a teaspoon dipped in wort at 100 C give you an accurate reading? There will be instantaneous/untold evaporation for a start. In other words, the reading will be high even if it were suddenly reduced to room temperature.
The same goes for when you leave the sample in the refraactometer over time. It goes up because water evaporates out the sides.
A pipette reduces these anomalies.
You see what I mean about learning how to use it?
PP
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Post #20 made 14 years ago
I now know what you mean about the necessity of a pipette. Last month I was reading my start of boil gravity with a refractometer and got 1.070 when I was supposed to be getting 1.043! Didn't realize it at the time but then I figured out it was what PP is describing. It was about 35°F outside and me dripping some of my stirring spoon on the refractometer was giving off a lot of visible evaporation, condensing the wort and elevating the gravity reading.
Now I use a pipette, but they seem to be a little difficult to use too. When I suck up boiling water from the top of the kettle the air inside the pipette heats up and expands. That shoots the wort out of the tip of the pipette immediately. I've tried immediately inverting the pipette and that seems to work. Not sure how accurate it is after reading all of this.
It has seemed close enough though (within 0.002 SG). I just made sure to go through the calibration in Beersmith and record only brix readings for conversion in Beersmith to SG when I am done and back at computer.
Now I use a pipette, but they seem to be a little difficult to use too. When I suck up boiling water from the top of the kettle the air inside the pipette heats up and expands. That shoots the wort out of the tip of the pipette immediately. I've tried immediately inverting the pipette and that seems to work. Not sure how accurate it is after reading all of this.
It has seemed close enough though (within 0.002 SG). I just made sure to go through the calibration in Beersmith and record only brix readings for conversion in Beersmith to SG when I am done and back at computer.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 50 Brews From United States of America
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Post #21 made 14 years ago
I just checked my start of boil gravity with pipette and straight off my dipstick.No difference to my eye through the refrac.Waiting for the wort to cool to check the hydro.BTW this is just an exercise on my part to keep PP from spending too much time on that biabacus thingy.
AWOL
