Co-ordination

I can't see any solution to people working on the same spreadsheet simultaneously I must say. Isn't this the problem here?

For example, stux and I in similiar time zones might get the 'urge' to do some major work on the sheet. (I have been doing this most of the day while not knowing if anyone else has been working as well let alone if it is on something easy to copy or not). But what if we have the same urges at the same time?

Isn't the real key giving feedback on what has been done so far and communicating to each other clearly that "I am on a roll" or something?

I think we are actually doing amazingly well here so far.


(Stux: Sorry mate on the naming but this is really difficult for me. I don't understand most of the field names. If you could provide a table/list of what names you have used so far and what they mean, that would help me and probably others identify the logic. As mentioned, I am happy to spend the laborious hours cleaning up stuff but not until I am told whether what I have done is actually good or bad. Cleaning stuff up is easy time for me . Mind you, I don't have many 'easy time' hours available as there are only 24 every day!)

One thing I find very good in situations like this is Skype. Instead of writing thousands of words here, two people can quickly solve unanswered questions and then post up their conclusions for consideration. A single person putting over a view and waiting for a response while "having the urge" is pretty limiting but it seems to be sufficing here - only just though!

I'm always amazed at what you computer guys can do however the result always needs to be considered from a first-time users point of view. This is the greyest area of all!!!

178 posts in this thread. 52 of these have been made in the last 24 hours.

Time to re-group and work out priorities! Seriously, a lot of important stuff is slipping by or being ignored.

I, have spent all day on this and still see very important issues raised that I have not acknowledged, responded to or had time to think on with quality.

I've mentioned several times what I think is important but what do you think?


Pat

Thank you Smyrna (again) and thank you Sig (again)! (Excuse me not addressing your posts directly... You'll see why below.)

You, like a few others here, are making a real difference. (I hope the below addresses what I think must be obvious concerns.)

[center]The History of The Calculator (first three sheets)[/center]
The Calculator (the one you see on the board at time of writing) was originally developed by BIABrewer.info and it took masses of hours and collection of figures to do this. Although we see it now as pitiful, the thought that went into it should still be respected and appreciated by all. It still provides the backbone of anything we have done here.

Since then, with BIABrewer's continual encouragement and input, the bitterness formulas have been improved immensely by stux (along with all your help) and now they are right (I hope, though I haven't checked in a while. Has anyone?). The converting to three systems (metric, US and Imperial) is outstanding!

Stux has also amazed me with what he has done in his Maxi-BIAB section though I had to have an hour and a half phone call with him for him to explain it to me .

And this is the problem. Stux has done brilliant work on the Maxi-BIAB side (and the bitterness formula of the pure side) and we are all giving him as much credit as we possibly can for this. But, nearly all visual and usability improvements have been done by others and they are not being given appropriate respect or consideration.

Stux does not 'own' this project and nor do I. (I assume he would agree with this as I know he likes 'OpenSource.')

The way I am seeing it, BIABrewer and stux have been magnificent contributors here to date but that is now holding us back and preventing some of you from 'jumping in' whereas this is exactly what you should be feeling free to do. (Thanks to you who have!)

[center]Possibilities for You[/center]
Stu started this thread with enthusiasm (good on him!) but without a 'heads up' to BIABrewer. BIABrewer had a totally different view on starting this thread . It has all worked out well to date but I think, stux and BIABrewer have too much 'power' now, if you like, in this thread. BIABrewer does not agree with this.

I still agree with Stu's name being at the top of the 'Maxi-BIAB Calculator' but I don't see why all your names (those actively contributing here) shouldn't appear with equal prominence on any 'calculator' we release (i.e. variations on the first three tabs) because you guys have been making as many differences as anyone else on the first tabs.

I also think we are now at the stage where it might be a good idea for two separate projects to be created. One being, a "Maxi-BIAB" project and one being a "BIAB" project. Stux loves the "Maxi-BIAB" challenge and I love the "Layout/Presentation Challenge." So perhaps Stu could run one project and I the other? Maybe Stu would even like to continue working on his own, with bugger-all help, as he has done for ages? (Don't know how he does it!)

Down the track, of course, we could collaborate but for now, I think two separate projects would be sensible and more efficient.

If any of you think this is a good idea then PM me or, if brave enough, comment here.

If I project manage the main calculator, I would need a team to operate in a hidden forum where all participants offer feedback and/or expertise and consistently give feedback to any suggestions - exactly as some of you are doing here. It's a big ask. Updates would be posted on the main forum regularly and anyone who offers consistent feedback there should then be invited to the hidden forum where we try to get most things right before letting things run wild.

If stux wanted the same as above, then that is easy and if anyone wants to be a member of both groups (apart from stux and myself), then they should definitely do so.

Stux's group (or himself, if he chooses) would be free to 'publish' their calculator any time they think appropriate as long as they accept responsibility for answering any questions their publication may require. My group would be focussed highly on detail, layout and quality for all users bar "Maxi-BIABers".

There are many holes in the latest draft. I think that having a group focussed on the first few sheets will be the fastest way to fix them.

Cheers,
Pat

Edit: Just worked out... That's actualy about 17 out of the last 24 hours (minus a few breaks) I have spent on this single topic just today. And, I worked and did some other stuff for about 4 hours! No way that anyone can keep up with the current pace I reckon. I used to enjoy my weekends .

Morning!

I missed out a key sentence in my last post here. I have just added it... "The converting to three systems (metric, US and Imperial) is outstanding!"

stux, that is great you are re-checking everything. Just what is needed! All you have written above makes sense to me as well.

Any thoughts on sig's post above re focussing on layout and creating a blueprint and my post on trying to allow these guys more input? I can see a lot of skill and experience there waiting to be unleashed and that I think is going to be necessary (and co-ordinated) to get this thing over the several humps ahead.

Can't believe your brewing! No drinking until you chill (Think I am going to be very lazy today .)

What I think I'm going to have to do here is separate the Maxi-BIAB Calculator project from the 'Calculator' project as too many things are getting lost. For example, much of the work I did on Saturday I will now have to re-do so for me it seems to be 4 steps forward, three steps back .

So, I will rename this thread and leave Stu alone with it. He can rename the spreadsheet here, "Maxi-BIAB Calculator" or whatever he chooses. He can keep the first pages or lose them. In other words, there is no need for him to worry about full-volume BIAB unless he wants to and there is no need to worry about checking with anyone else before making decisions unless he wants to. If he comes up with something great then it can be his (though hopefully he will acknowledge the original Calculator and those who help him along the way.)

I'll manage the 'Calculator' as I know what things will percuss through the entire site and I know I can get important/major help/feedback from many of you who have been contributing so well here. I won't be worrying about Maxi-BIAB in that sheet.

Much has been achieved here in the last few weeks. Brilliant stuff! Impressive stuff! Good on you stux and good on the rest of you!

Let's see what we all come up with
Pat