I have been using this bag for my BIAB beers.
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/nylon-ex ... -mesh.html
It is a coarse nylon bag, with about the same size holes as a paint strainer bag. The problem I've been getting on my lighter beers is a pretty pronounced raw grainy flavor that does not mellow with time. In fact it's generally so present that it dominates the flavor and aroma of the beer.
The reason I think it has to do with the bag, is because I recently moved from a corona mill with a very fine crush to a crankandstein mill set at the factory gap. In my most recent pale ale, the grainy flavor was much less present than on my previous pale ale with the finer crush. However, it was still noticeable. The previous beer was borderline undrinkable.
I'm really started to get frustrated with this issue. My next step is to go get some voile material, since I do believe it's much finer than this grain bag. I'm thinking that the bag I'm using is too coarse and letting material in the kettle to be boiled, which is extracting some tannins and leading to this flavor.
Any thoughts from the more experienced BIAB brewers out there?
Post #2 made 14 years ago
Hi hoss and welcome to the forum.
It's hard for me to tell how coarse the bag is ( I'm on my iPhone) but I would suggest that it my pay to go and get some viole, then you can at least compare the weave.
Someone else around here may be able to shed some light on your flavor issue and help you out, as I've never come across it.
I hope you can find the source of your problem fast.
And please let us know your progress.
Cheers wiz
It's hard for me to tell how coarse the bag is ( I'm on my iPhone) but I would suggest that it my pay to go and get some viole, then you can at least compare the weave.
Someone else around here may be able to shed some light on your flavor issue and help you out, as I've never come across it.
I hope you can find the source of your problem fast.
And please let us know your progress.
Cheers wiz
[center]"All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer."
[/center]
[center]Homer Simpson[/center]
[center]K.I.S.S., B.I.A.B.[/center]
[/center]
[center]Homer Simpson[/center]
[center]K.I.S.S., B.I.A.B.[/center]
Post #3 made 14 years ago
For what I can see, the bag doesn't look too coarse. But it's hard to tell as the image isn't great.
Wiz hit the nail on the head, "...I would suggest that it my pay to go and get some viole, then you can at least compare the weave."
Good advice there and you should be able to buy a couple of metres/yards for a few bucks.
Wiz hit the nail on the head, "...I would suggest that it my pay to go and get some viole, then you can at least compare the weave."
Good advice there and you should be able to buy a couple of metres/yards for a few bucks.
Last edited by hashie on 24 Apr 2011, 08:06, edited 5 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #4 made 14 years ago
Thanks guys. I'm going to try the voile and see if that helps....I hope so. I'll report back my findings.
Post #5 made 14 years ago
FYI: Material for BIAB Bag. I am new to BIAB, I am currently purchasing a few items to make BIAB easier. I purchased a SS Keggle with Female threaded port for $119 at Adventures in Brewing, it is onsale currently. The great bargain though is the VOILE, I purchased it at JoAnn Fabric's in Michigan USA on 22AP2011 and they have it onsale at 50% off. I got the 148" for $5 and some change for a yard, It's normally $11 a yard, and because I love the BIG Beer's like Russian Imp. Stouts and Belgian Triple's I am doubling the material for strength. I hope this helps save someone some money. Sorry for our Aussie friends, I don't think this will help you guy's out much. Cheers 
Post #6 made 14 years ago
Sweet! Thanks for the info. We have a JoAnn just down the road. I'll have to pick some up this week. Cheers!!!DABEER wrote:FYI: Material for BIAB Bag. I am new to BIAB, I am currently purchasing a few items to make BIAB easier. I purchased a SS Keggle with Female threaded port for $119 at Adventures in Brewing, it is onsale currently. The great bargain though is the VOILE, I purchased it at JoAnn Fabric's in Michigan USA on 22AP2011 and they have it onsale at 50% off. I got the 148" for $5 and some change for a yard, It's normally $11 a yard, and because I love the BIG Beer's like Russian Imp. Stouts and Belgian Triple's I am doubling the material for strength. I hope this helps save someone some money. Sorry for our Aussie friends, I don't think this will help you guy's out much. Cheers
Last edited by HossTheGreat on 25 Apr 2011, 02:08, edited 5 times in total.
Post #7 made 14 years ago
I don't think it's your bag. I think you have a grainy astringency, it's typically associated with the wrong pH of the mash or with oversparging.
Is it dry and kinda powdery mouthfeel, almost like little spikes in the beer? You can normally taste the grain husk with it, which it sounds like you can.
Do you treat your water at all?
What temperature are you mashing at?
A bit more process information would help, but I don't think it's the bag material myself.
Is it dry and kinda powdery mouthfeel, almost like little spikes in the beer? You can normally taste the grain husk with it, which it sounds like you can.
Do you treat your water at all?
What temperature are you mashing at?
A bit more process information would help, but I don't think it's the bag material myself.
http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.
Post #8 made 14 years ago
Thanks for the reply. Here is more info on my process.EoinMag wrote:I don't think it's your bag. I think you have a grainy astringency, it's typically associated with the wrong pH of the mash or with oversparging.
Is it dry and kinda powdery mouthfeel, almost like little spikes in the beer? You can normally taste the grain husk with it, which it sounds like you can.
Do you treat your water at all?
What temperature are you mashing at?
A bit more process information would help, but I don't think it's the bag material myself.
I filter my water with a carbon filter, plus add 5.2 to the mash. Depending on the style, I keep my mash anywhere in the 152-156 range for an hour and then raise it to 170 for 10 min for a mash out. I use an RTD probe, plus double check with a thermapen to verify the mash temp. I also always make sure to stir before taking the temp, to ensure an accurate reading. I do not sparge at all. After the mash, I simply pull the bag out of the kettle, and let it rest in a colander on top of the kettle. I let it sit there and drain back into the kettle until I reach a boil. I will then remove it and proceed with the boil as normal.
All of my boils are 60 minutes. After which, I immediately turn off the heat, cover with a lid, and turn on the water to my immersion chiller. After chilling to the 65-68 degree F range, I rack to my primary better bottle, hit it with approx. 30 seconds of pure O2, then pitch my yeast. If I use dry yeast, it's always properly rehydrated. If I'm using liquid yeast, I always make an appropriate starter.
My fermentation is also kept at a steady temp....generally in the mid 60's F (I tape the temp probe to the side of the carboy and insulate it with some bubble wrap as to get an accurate reading of the fermentation temp). I let the beer sit in the primary for at least 3 weeks, before racking to a corny keg. I then will force carb to 10psi.
I have tried letting the beer go for a couple of months to see if the taste ages out, but it does not.
As for my water, the only info that our water dept was able to provide is as follows
Finished water pH – 6.8 to 7.0
Finished water Hardness - <50 mg/l
Finished water alkalinity – 12-18 mg/l
And here's a link to the water chemical tests in my area:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... u84K&pli=1
Last edited by HossTheGreat on 25 Apr 2011, 09:01, edited 5 times in total.
Post #9 made 14 years ago
Say, as I posted this I did a little more research about covering my kettle with a lid immediately after flameout. Many people who cover while chilling aren't doing it until their wort temp reaches 140 F or so. Do you suppose I'm picking up DMS after the boil, and that's what's giving me this flavor? One person described his as stale corn chips, and I could almost describe my off flavor to be this as well.
Post #10 made 14 years ago
You may also want to increase the boil length to 90 mins to be rid of DMS precursors. Particularly if you are using pilsner malt.
Cheers
Cheers
[center]"All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer."
[/center]
[center]Homer Simpson[/center]
[center]K.I.S.S., B.I.A.B.[/center]
[/center]
[center]Homer Simpson[/center]
[center]K.I.S.S., B.I.A.B.[/center]
Post #11 made 14 years ago
HossTheGreat wrote:Say, as I posted this I did a little more research about covering my kettle with a lid immediately after flameout. Many people who cover while chilling aren't doing it until their wort temp reaches 140 F or so. Do you suppose I'm picking up DMS after the boil, and that's what's giving me this flavor? One person described his as stale corn chips, and I could almost describe my off flavor to be this as well.
My understanding of the flavour of DMS was like cooked corn, as someone else said already a 90 minute boil will help there. Can you check your mash pH as well.
Describe the flavour, first you mention grainy then you mention corny?
How much chaff is getting through into the boil? A little bit should make very little difference.
Last edited by EoinMag on 25 Apr 2011, 15:59, edited 5 times in total.
http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.
Post #12 made 14 years ago
I have never checked my mash pH, but do use 5.2. I think I'm going to pick up some test strips and check my pH in the next mash.EoinMag wrote:
My understanding of the flavour of DMS was like cooked corn, as someone else said already a 90 minute boil will help there. Can you check your mash pH as well.
Describe the flavour, first you mention grainy then you mention corny?
How much chaff is getting through into the boil? A little bit should make very little difference.
I read where someone mentioned that their beer with a potential DMS issue tasted like stale corn chips or fritos. I guess it possibly be interpreted as this, but the initial flavor that still comes to mind is grainy.
I really don't see any particulate getting through to the boil, but at this point I don't know what else could be the issue. I guess I will have a better idea if it's pH after taking a measurement.
Last edited by HossTheGreat on 26 Apr 2011, 07:09, edited 5 times in total.
Post #13 made 14 years ago
HossTheGreat wrote:I have never checked my mash pH, but do use 5.2. I think I'm going to pick up some test strips and check my pH in the next mash.
I read where someone mentioned that their beer with a potential DMS issue tasted like stale corn chips or fritos. I guess it possibly be interpreted as this, but the initial flavor that still comes to mind is grainy.
I really don't see any particulate getting through to the boil, but at this point I don't know what else could be the issue. I guess I will have a better idea if it's pH after taking a measurement.
5.2 is only so good, it very much depends on your water to be able to buffer as it is supposed to, I found it to be completely ineffective and despite using it my pH was still around 6.5 no matter how much of it was used.
You're better off to get yourself an aquarium test kit and then either some CRS (carbonate reducing solution from brupaks) and some DLS (Dry Liquor salts) or even better start to use the salts to build your own water profiles as and when you need to.
I've recently made a pils and have used both of those ingredients to get my water profile to about where it needs to be for the mash and so far the pils is tasting super, although it's still in lagering at the moment for at least another 3-4 weeks.
Last edited by EoinMag on 26 Apr 2011, 16:24, edited 5 times in total.
http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.
