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Preparing for 1st Biab. Only done one kit before this...

Post #1 made 10 years ago
by MrChris
Evening

Ok. I am planning to have a crack at my first BIAB this weekend but am definitely starting to over-think.

I have used the Biabacus to adjust the NRB Amarillo recipe for my pot. For simplicity, I decided to go mini-BIAB from my 30L kettle, and then if the results were terrible, I have enough ingredients remaining to try again. I am not a big drinker so smaller amounts works well to experiment.

My Biabacus is attached.

Questions so far:
1) The kettle says it is a 30L capacity, but the measurements in the spreadsheet work it out to approx 33L. Is this normal?
2) How do I measure pre-boil and post-boil volumes in the kettle. Presumably, pre-boil by just measuring the water in from a jug, but what about afterwards?
3) I don't have any Irish Moss or the Whirlfloc. Is this a problem?
4) The hops are added with 60mins to go, 20mins to go and 5mins to go. They are then simply left in whilst I run the wort chiller before running off into the FV?
5) I have Safale US-05 and a West Coast yeast available. Which one is preferable? What is the ideal temperature to pitch at?

Thanks for any help and support.

Chris
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Post #2 made 10 years ago
by thughes
Can't help much with the BIABacus but there will be others along shortly that are well-versed in its use. I will will welcome you to BIAB and wich you a successful first brew.

---Todd
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Post #4 made 10 years ago
by joshua
MrChris, the Spreadsheet looks good.

I wonder about the 2.94 Gallons(VIP), which would be Equal 31-12oz Bottles(1 case +7 Bottles).

Most Half-Kegs are 2.5 gallons.

Just Curious...
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Post #5 made 10 years ago
by MrChris
Hi

Thanks for the reply. I basically adjusted the spreadsheet to ensure that I could fit all liquid at all stages in my kettle. I then realised that by taking it a little lower, I could get two brew days out of my 5kg bag of grains! I didn't even look at the VIP!

I bottle rather than keg - does all this still make sense?

Cheers
Chris

Post #6 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Chris, That sound right.

You can bottle all that and get a case + 6-pack.
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Post #8 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Chris,
If you can Wait after the Boil is Finished, you could move the 5 Minute addition, to "Flame Out" for a "Whirlpool Hop Addition" and wait 30 Minutes for More Aroma.

JMHO YMMV
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Post #9 made 10 years ago
by cfmcintosh
MrChris wrote:Cheers.

Any thoughts about the other bits?

Chris
I'm not an expert but I will give it a go:

Questions so far:
1) The kettle says it is a 30L capacity, but the measurements in the spreadsheet work it out to approx 33L. Is this normal?
- Does your kettle have straight sides or does it taper towards the bottom? The bottom diameter may only be 33 cm while the top diameter is 39 cm. It pays to measure carefully!
2) How do I measure pre-boil and post-boil volumes in the kettle. Presumably, pre-boil by just measuring the water in from a jug, but what about afterwards?
- You could take your spoon or something similar and mark how many cm from the top or bottom of the kettle to estimate your volumes.
- Use the data in Sections S and T. Place the spoon in the center of the kettle and note how close you are to the estimates.
3) I don't have any Irish Moss or the Whirlfloc. Is this a problem?
- No.
4) The hops are added with 60mins to go, 20mins to go and 5mins to go. They are then simply left in whilst I run the wort chiller before running off into the FV?
- You could use a hopsock or hop spider but you don't want to restrict the hops as they expand. I just throw the hops in the kettle and put an old BIAB bag in the fermentor to filter the hops. I just pour the cooled wort from the kettle into the fermentor (sanitized of course) and then lift the bag. Works like a charm!
5) I have Safale US-05 and a West Coast yeast available. Which one is preferable? What is the ideal temperature to pitch at?
- Your preference.

I just brewed my first BIAB using BIABacus last weekend. TWN was 34.26 liters with Mash Volume of 37.29 liters in a 40 liter kettle! It was close but all went well. I used a new Brew Bag with handles and a ladder with rope hangers to lift and drain the bag. Perfect! I toyed with the idea of holding back water but wanted a full volume mash.

Chuck
Last edited by cfmcintosh on 20 Mar 2015, 10:52, edited 1 time in total.

Post #10 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
Nice work Chuck :peace:,

Chris, often catering stockpots are marked at the capacity of approx. the handles rather than the brim so this is not unusual. (Also be careful of trusting jugs. I have a 4 L jug that holds 3 L - figure that one out!) A metal stainless steel ruler makes measuring headspace or depth to use in Sections S and T easy.

Have fun :drink:.
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Post #11 made 10 years ago
by MrChris
Guys

Thanks for all the help. Just been out and got long spoon to measuring gradations, baster for gathering sample, indoor hose connector for wort chiller, mineral water and a large strainer.

No good putting it off any longer, lets get this 'f%&ker on its roof'!

Chris

Post #12 made 10 years ago
by MrChris
Right, so brew day over. What have I learnt?

1) It takes a long time
2) I still don't understand enough about the general brewing process
3) It was fun!

Thought I would do a 'match day' report and hopefully people will be able to critique what I did and I can improve for next time.

Preparation
I got all my kit together in the kitchen where I had decided to brew. Tested water-tightness of the kettle and the wort chiller, put sanitiser in the bucket ready for equipment.
image1 (1).JPG
I got my water heating to strike temp and I measured out my grain and hop additions, labelling them to ensure timings were correct.
image2.JPG
Mash
I brought the temp of the strike water up to 69C and added my grain bill. I got a couple of clumps so slowed down and mixed thoroughly. At the start of the mash my temp was 66.7C. You can hopefully see my impromptu insulation below - 2 North Face down jackets tied with an old belt!
image3.JPG
I checked the temp a couple of times and at the end of the mash had a temp of 64.3C.

I removed the bag and set it to drain whilst the kettle came up to boil. Gave it regular good squeezes. I added the liquor back to the kettle and took my volume and gravity measures. Volume was 22.82L

FIRST OBVIOUS MISTAKE/PROBLEM - I didn't let the sample cool and was disappointed to see a gravity of 1.016. From reading around subsequently this may be explained by not letting the sample cool?

Boil
I started the boil with what I thought was a good rolling boil, no problems with cutouts which I feared with the Buffalo boiler. Hop additions went in as planned and added wort chiller to sterilise.

After chilling, volume was 17L and gravity was 1.044. The amount into fermenter was about 14.5L, more than expected so probably my second mistake.

Fermenter and pitching
I allowed it to fall from a height into my sanitised FV and took my temp of 22C. I pitched my yeast and done. Sitting in room at steady 20C.

I have also attached my Biabacus with some of the measurements for your thoughts.
BIABacus PR1.3T - American Pale Ale - NRB-All Amarillo APA - CHV1.xls
Thanks for all your help

Chris
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Last edited by MrChris on 21 Mar 2015, 02:58, edited 1 time in total.

Post #13 made 10 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
Nice write up MrChris.
You definitely hit the nail on the head with your first problem. Your hydrometer will have been calibrated at a certain temperature usually 15 or 20C. You want to read the sample as close to that temp as possible. It will probably be posted somewhere on the hydrometer.
As for the extra wort. Your boil may not have been vigorous enough or because you brewed indoors your evaporation may have been lower than expected. Keep tabs on your post boil volumes on future batches and if it is constantly off the biabacus can be adjusted to reflect your system.
Congrats on having fun and making beer. Those are the main things to remember.
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

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Post #14 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
I really like the way you had your grains and hops laid out neatly Chris. Very quickly, after a few more brews, you can get lazier and less detailed but that sort of diligence early in the game can really avoid a lot of problems :salute:.

When you checked the temperature, I hope you stirred/agitated the sweet liquor beforehand as temperature layers are very pronounced on 'still' sweet liquor.

Before your next brew, try and plan to make a few more 'sets' of volume and gravity measurements. In other words, aim to fill in at least a few fields of Sections L and M (the attached BIABacus above is blank in those two sections). The more info you can put in there, the sooner we can narrow down any problems in your brewing process. Without that info, we can only make guesses. Lumpy has mentioned low evaporation for example. Another could be too much starting water. We also need to keep an eye on your kettle efficiencies.

Even if your original gravity was only 1.044, if your hops are from a good amarillo year, then you will still have a fantastic beer so there is nothing to be worried about here.

Congrats Chris :thumbs: :clap: :salute:,
PP
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Post #15 made 10 years ago
by MrChris
Thanks for the replies guys.

PP - I didn't stir the mash at all during the 90mins, will do his next time. I will try and get more measurements. Do you just let the samples cool to room temp before measuring?

Still struggling for confidence in my kettle measurements. Used a ruler down the side and the conversion tool in the Biabacus. Not sure how accurate this was though.

Anyways, onwards and upwards. Will try same in two weeks when out of fermentation.

On that note, I have gradually reduced the temperature of my the enclosed room where I am fermenting from 21-22c to 16-18c as I was concerned that it those temps would encourage undesirable tastes. WS this ok and should I leaves it at the temp now?

Many thanks

Post #16 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
There's actually two reasons for agitating the grain Chris. The first I mentioned above, it enables you to get an accurate temperature reading. Secondly, not agitating the mash in many (maybe all?) set-ups will definitely reduce your efficiency into kettle.

I know some brewers do not agitate during the mash but I have seen it, so many times, that doing so solves a poor efficiency problem.

...

As for the kettle measurements, you can trust in the BIABacus maths but unless you know your kettle is on a perfectly level surface, take your measurements from the centre of the kettle. This is particularly important if you have made any 'Kettle Shape Adjustments' in Section X as these all require measuring from the centre.

...

This particular recipe will be fine starting at 22C and then lowering but on most recipes, it is more desirable to aim to pitch at a little lower than the desired fermenting temperature. The first part of fermentation produces heat so pitching a little lower helps to ensure that the active fermentation temperature will not push the batch into high temps that might cause flavour problems.

For example, as far as I know and have been informed by excellent lager brewers, a diacetyl rest is unnecessary if you pitch low and keep the fermentation temps on the low side.

:peace:
PP
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Post #18 made 10 years ago
by MrChris
Evening All
After my attempts last time, I have just had my second brew day, using the second half of my ingredients to once again create the NRB All Amarillo.

I am currently drinking my first attempt and overall, all very pleased. I made a number of changes and errors and wanted to get your feedback on them:

1) I agitated my mash every 15 mins given my poor efficiencies last time. I had to add some heat to it but this was not a significant issue. My gravity into boil was 1.030, still a little short of where it needed to be. Thoughts?
2) Once again, my evaporation rates were not as per the spreadsheet. More importantly, I lost my mind briefly and stirred the chilled wort to ensure it had all chilled, thereby disturbing the material and then transferred the lot, without waiting for it to settle, into my fermenter. Is there anything I can do at this point to salvage the situation?
3) What is the difference between the Gravity of Ambient Wort and OG? My OG taken from the fermenter was 1.048?
4) I have some Amarillo left. Would this beer benefit/stand to be dry-hopped? Only I have never done this and thought it might be a learning experience?!

Many thanks
Chris

Post #19 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Chris, here are a few opinions....

1)If you a refractormeter, the 1.030 was correct, if you used a hydrometer, the higher temperature would cause the density to be less, and the Hydrometer will give you a Much lower value.

2)There is an ongoing argument about a full Trub Fermentation, I believe there is NO PROBLEM!!! The Trub will help the fermentation, and the only Trouble is a Lot of loss after the fermentation is finished, and No way to recover yeast.

3)Maybe the Original O.G. was measured above the 70F, That the Hydrometer is set at, and the Fermenter is at a cooler Temperature. Giving you higher density

4)Many Hop-Heads would say "Dry-Hop!!!!", if you want to try to, add the hops after the Krausen(foam) drop, and have even More Loss into packaging, and a very Hoppy beer.

Good Luck!!
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Post #20 made 10 years ago
by MrChris
HI Joshua

Many thanks for your comments - I have tried to give some answers below:
joshua wrote:Chris, here are a few opinions....

1)If you a refractormeter, the 1.030 was correct, if you used a hydrometer, the higher temperature would cause the density to be less, and the Hydrometer will give you a Much lower value.

I was using a hydrometer, but waited until the sample had cooled to take the reading. Hopefully, this means I am in the right ballpark?

2)There is an ongoing argument about a full Trub Fermentation, I believe there is NO PROBLEM!!! The Trub will help the fermentation, and the only Trouble is a Lot of loss after the fermentation is finished, and No way to recover yeast.

Thanks for clarifying this - I am not recovering yeast at present anyway so all good.

3)Maybe the Original O.G. was measured above the 70F, That the Hydrometer is set at, and the Fermenter is at a cooler Temperature. Giving you higher density

4)Many Hop-Heads would say "Dry-Hop!!!!", if you want to try to, add the hops after the Krausen(foam) drop, and have even More Loss into packaging, and a very Hoppy beer.

Good Luck!!
What sort of amounts of hops are you going to be adding as a dry hop. For example, I added 15.5g as a final hop addition (mini-biab). Would you think a similar amount again?

Just seen where you are in the world - I am in Tennessee (all the way from UK!) next week for a wedding - somewhere near Knoxville. Hoping to get to a distillery whilst there.

Cheers

Chris
Last edited by MrChris on 10 May 2015, 04:53, edited 1 time in total.

Post #21 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Chris, depending on how much you are a Hop-Head, you could add 1/2 an amount of hops, at the Krausen drop, and taste the beer after a week, and then add more, if you need More "Hoppiness", and wait another week to test again. Time is What the Dry hopping Needs.

If you can see this Google https://www.google.com/maps/search/dist ... a=!3m1!4b1

it shows the Distillers in east Tn.
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