Dear brew friends, this is my first post here at BIABrewer foruns!
While reading the documents here I've learned that BIAB is a full body method which means that all water of the process is added at the begining. I found that weird cos every brazilian brewer instructor here teaches that is very important to keep the aprox. 2.5x water/grain proportion for the mashing to guarantee the right extraction of sugar and the 1.5x the water of the mashing at the boiling to sparge and clarify the wort.
It seems that those methods + the recirculations are not used in BIAB but I coulnd't understand why. Can anyone give a practical explanation for that? Are there losses of not using these methods? As "everybody" says it's important, why not doing it?
Sorry for my bad "engrish" :-)
Cheers!
Post #2 made 12 years ago
fcmenezes
I don't want to appear rude, but your instructors are what i would class as "pre-Magellan"
Magellan is purported to be the discoverer of the earth being round in the 1400's, and I would guess he had a difficult time convincing everybody at that time that the earth was not flat.
Similarly, there are some people that believe you cannot do a full volume mash, but it does work. Many people use the method, and make award winning beers with it.
I am sure somebody here can give you an explanation of why full volume methods do work though.
I don't want to appear rude, but your instructors are what i would class as "pre-Magellan"
Magellan is purported to be the discoverer of the earth being round in the 1400's, and I would guess he had a difficult time convincing everybody at that time that the earth was not flat.
Similarly, there are some people that believe you cannot do a full volume mash, but it does work. Many people use the method, and make award winning beers with it.
I am sure somebody here can give you an explanation of why full volume methods do work though.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
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Post #3 made 12 years ago
fcmenezes,
BIAB is a newer way to brew beer. The older way to brew that your instructor teaches works but is very inefficient and work intensive. Most of the old rules that he teaches are now proven to be unnecessary and based on unproven ideas that seem to make sense but were never really tested.
BIAB is more efficient (low 80's per cent) with less work and less money needed. Remember that years ago we learned to brew from the brewing industry that had different problems than we have. The ways that they brewed were perfect for them and they instructed us with (big batch) methods. We brew with (small batch) methods that doesn't translate well. We accepted their advice because they were professionals and we were amateurs. No more!
We now are professional (small batch) brewers and we have thrown out or corrected old brewing myths. We are a living and evolving brewing method that never accepts something because "they always did it that way" We like to be the renegade style of brewing. We have the brewing medals to prove it!
It seems that those methods + the re-circulations are not used in BIAB but I couldn't understand why. Can anyone give a practical explanation for that? Are there losses of not using these methods? As "everybody" says it's important, why not doing it?
BIAB is a newer way to brew beer. The older way to brew that your instructor teaches works but is very inefficient and work intensive. Most of the old rules that he teaches are now proven to be unnecessary and based on unproven ideas that seem to make sense but were never really tested.
BIAB is more efficient (low 80's per cent) with less work and less money needed. Remember that years ago we learned to brew from the brewing industry that had different problems than we have. The ways that they brewed were perfect for them and they instructed us with (big batch) methods. We brew with (small batch) methods that doesn't translate well. We accepted their advice because they were professionals and we were amateurs. No more!
We now are professional (small batch) brewers and we have thrown out or corrected old brewing myths. We are a living and evolving brewing method that never accepts something because "they always did it that way" We like to be the renegade style of brewing. We have the brewing medals to prove it!
Last edited by BobBrews on 19 Jun 2013, 23:47, edited 2 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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Post #4 made 12 years ago
Bob Brew, thx very much for your explanation. These traditional brewing methods are used as dogmas here in Brazil. When I talked for the first time about the BIAB with some "beer gurus" all of them looked kind of surprised with these new methods and none of them believed that they work better them the traditional ways. Some of them believed that they even work at all!
When you say "myths" youre referring to the recirculation? What are the "not proven" methods specifically?
Cheers
When you say "myths" youre referring to the recirculation? What are the "not proven" methods specifically?
Cheers
Felipe Menezes
Post #5 made 12 years ago
Good Day, The recirculation is Impotant for ALL 3 vessel brewers, and (2.5 x water)/grain, also is Important for 3 vessel brewers.....as you indicate, that is all Dogma.
Full volume BIAB mash uses beween 5 to 7 L/kg or 1.25/1.5 gallons/pound, as this will extract more sugar due to lower density of the mash.
Recirclation, is un-needed since the Grains are contained in a fine voile bag, which acts a Filter, when the bag is removed.
The Cloudy wort, that may occur, has little, if any, effect on the finished beer.
BIAB is for Heretics, That want to make great beer with as little equipment as is possible, and use the least energy and resources, as you can. Search for "No-Chill" for example.
Full volume BIAB mash uses beween 5 to 7 L/kg or 1.25/1.5 gallons/pound, as this will extract more sugar due to lower density of the mash.
Recirclation, is un-needed since the Grains are contained in a fine voile bag, which acts a Filter, when the bag is removed.
The Cloudy wort, that may occur, has little, if any, effect on the finished beer.
BIAB is for Heretics, That want to make great beer with as little equipment as is possible, and use the least energy and resources, as you can. Search for "No-Chill" for example.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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Post #6 made 12 years ago
Welcome aboard fcfcmenezes wrote:Dear brew friends, this is my first post here at BIABrewer foruns!
. Very nice 'second' post and your Engrish is great 
.A lot of good answers above on this very tricky area. I've just written a reply here regarding mash thickness which may help as well.
Keep asking questions in this thread fc (or anywhere!) as there are many aspects of the question you are asking that are confusing.
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 20 Jun 2013, 19:34, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #7 made 12 years ago
fcmenezes,
The mash is too thin. (wrong!) The grain stays together in the bag, close enough to convert.
you must Sparge (wrong!) Not needed!
you must Vorlauf (wrong!) Not needed!
You must end with clear wort. (wrong!) It will be clear after fermentation is done.
you must chill the wort quickly (wrong!) With no-chill it cools slowly in the container.
you must ferment the wort immediately (wrong!) with no chill you can wait 6 months to ferment!
When BIAB was just starting out the "experts?" said it wouldn't work! They said that the water to grain ratio was wrong! They said it wouldn't convert. (Not enough enzymes in the thin mash). The experts didn't (try it) they simply said it wouldn't work and because they were old established brewers. Everyone just believed it was true. In fact the BIAB method is easily more efficient converting and averages about 82% (or more?) for established brewers. With less cost and less work!!
Read, and read more of the basic information on this forum. As you read you will see the process unfold. The best proof is to brew and share! As you get more proficient in your brewing you can teach your friends. I was a three vessel brewer and my brewing club had no BIAB brewers at all! I gave up on 3V and converted to BIAB and now I have 8 (or more) members of my brewing club brewing with the Brew In A Bag with No-Chill method!
Enough said! Get brewing!
Look at the process here http://www.stempski.com/biab.php
BIAB (with no-chill especially) breaks all the standard brewing standards. They say....When you say "myths" you're referring to the recirculation? What are the "not proven" methods specifically?
The mash is too thin. (wrong!) The grain stays together in the bag, close enough to convert.
you must Sparge (wrong!) Not needed!
you must Vorlauf (wrong!) Not needed!
You must end with clear wort. (wrong!) It will be clear after fermentation is done.
you must chill the wort quickly (wrong!) With no-chill it cools slowly in the container.
you must ferment the wort immediately (wrong!) with no chill you can wait 6 months to ferment!
When BIAB was just starting out the "experts?" said it wouldn't work! They said that the water to grain ratio was wrong! They said it wouldn't convert. (Not enough enzymes in the thin mash). The experts didn't (try it) they simply said it wouldn't work and because they were old established brewers. Everyone just believed it was true. In fact the BIAB method is easily more efficient converting and averages about 82% (or more?) for established brewers. With less cost and less work!!
Read, and read more of the basic information on this forum. As you read you will see the process unfold. The best proof is to brew and share! As you get more proficient in your brewing you can teach your friends. I was a three vessel brewer and my brewing club had no BIAB brewers at all! I gave up on 3V and converted to BIAB and now I have 8 (or more) members of my brewing club brewing with the Brew In A Bag with No-Chill method!
Enough said! Get brewing!
Look at the process here http://www.stempski.com/biab.php
Last edited by BobBrews on 20 Jun 2013, 20:33, edited 2 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
-
