4 BIABs done need a little help

Post #1 made 13 years ago
Skates posted this in the My first post thread Here but I think it warrants a thread of its own so it doesn't get lost. Hope you don't mind Skate :pray:

AdminNote: Many thanks for doing this Yeasty :thumbs:. I am going to edit skate's original post you copied below so as it is a little easier to follow and so that US measurements will translate using The Converter. There are many questions skates needs answered. Once I am done editing, I will make a post here asking what major questions remain.

ADMIN NOTE: Unfortunately the edget being referred to here is no longer available. Please read this post for alternatives.

[quote=skates]Greetings all...Perhaps I can get some guidance and/or help,...

I started trying to build beer around last November. The BIAB method seems to be ingenious in its simplicity. I have a turkey fryer which is now my brew kettle, and will be doing my 5th biab on saturday. A few problems I am having- let me start by saying I'm brewing on a shoestring budget, not because I can't afford to become properly equipped, but more because I really enjoy acomplishing much with little. On to my questions...

I have plenty of kettle to brew 5 gal batches, usually end with 3.3 gal - 3.5 gal, I am using 4 gal pet bottles for fermenters, the smaller volumes really keep things manageable. I have attempted to use "the Calculator" but I don't have excel, etc, on my computer, is there another version which requires less software on my end?

I have been scaling up / down recipies somewhat linearly, and my results have been less than what I consider great, or even good. I did attempt the Amarillo APA twice, verbatim- the small volume was perfect for my fermenters, I think both of them taste like snail piss. I could only get whole hops, not pellitized, could this be why the stuff tastes like fruit punch??

The yeast selections I have been using are all in the dry arena, I use safale s-05 or 04 for the most part, (no starter) I don't get a high amount of krausen, but my ferm valve will bubble away for at least a day or two, another oddity I've noticed, fermentation starts very quickly, within hours. I leave in at least a week, I don't own a hydrometer- and neither did the mesopotamians- to be honest, with the smaller volumes I'm brewing, I want a refractometer, just can't justify it yet.

My previous was a chocolate stout that was somewhat palatable, and I have a generic esb in ferm now- will bottle this weekend while my mash is happening. . I'm trying not to become discouraged, but I haven't been able to approach the flavor of a "commercial" beer- and I have sampled(??) many over the years. It is apparent that I am doing something fundamentally wrong, but I can't figure out what it is.

My sanitization systems are good ( I use c brite and one step very liberally) I can't detect chlorine or chloramines in my water(doesn't mean it's not there, just have very good tasting water) I have almost constant temps of approx. 65-68 deg.f. for fermentation. I do "second" in the bottle, usually a 2 wk minimum before I even taste test the stuff. I use dextrose to prime and have good carb. I do not have a bottling wand, tho I bottle from a 2 gal igloo with a spout and am careful not to over aireate. I have two thermometers in use on brewday, thinking that I might have overshot the mash temps, but no, unless they are both wrong.

The only thing I can think of that I do different is that I use the perforated liner inside the brewpot to shield my bag AND when the mash is complete, I found I can hang the inner liner using some s hooks to the outside lip of the brewpot, sort of acts as a strainer, but will take the pressure of a very heavy squeeze using an appropriate sized potlid. I can sparge if I want to easily. Will the two walls have any effect?? only did that for the last three biabs. I know I'm leaving a bunch of stuff out, I'm almost certain it is something small that I'm tripping over, just can't see what it is. any ideas would be appreciated....[/quote]
Last edited by Yeasty on 11 Feb 2012, 02:02, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #2 made 13 years ago
joshua wrote:Good Day Skates, Welcome! You mentioned the Amarillo hops taste fruity, I wonder do you quick-chill or No-Chill, it may be the hops are a bit high for your size batch.

Also, do you airate the wort as it goes into the fermenter (Pour back to the kettle, back to the fermenter, a few times) It really helps the fermentation, and will aid in getting most friuty esters out of the wort.

You did not say what your grain bill is/was, I had some pretty poor batches due to my grains being well passed its prime(OLD)

How long do you mash? a short mash will leave a very watery beer. How long did you boil? a very long boil will add a lot of hop flavor (sometimes not so good).

If you could post your recipe, it would make it easier to check for problems, and make some better suggestions.
Good Luck on your next brew, and keep us posted on how your doing!
This is Joshua's reply.
Last edited by Yeasty on 11 Feb 2012, 02:03, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #4 made 13 years ago
Skates,

If you can, you may want to consider downloading "open office". This is freeware that may allow you to operate the calculator with out having to buy anything else.

trout
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
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Post #5 made 13 years ago
Amarillo APA is supposed to taste fruity ;)

What sort of beers do you like?

Coors? Bud? That sort of thing?
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #6 made 13 years ago
I was wondering the same thing Stux, the OP's statement "I'm trying not to become discouraged, but I haven't been able to approach the flavor of a "commercial" beer" has got me wondering whether he/she is actually making good beer and just doesn't have a taste for "craft" brew? Speaking for myself, the last thing I want my brew to taste like is "commercial beer". :scratch:
Last edited by thughes on 11 Feb 2012, 08:31, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #7 made 13 years ago
Thughes and stux,

I understand your points, but there are days where I want a simple, thirst quenching beer. Ive got a recipe that tastes similar to some mass produced beers. The great thing is that I can brew it :P

Hopefully we'll get more info from Skates and we can help him hammer out his process. Lets help more people brew the beer they like.

Trout
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
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Post #8 made 13 years ago
Agreed 2trout, I believe neither of us meant any offense. I brew mostly session beers myself and have a cream ale recipe that is very similar to a generic "light commercial beer".....it's also one of my favorites. I think we're just grasping at straws at this point, trying to help our new friend "skates".

---Todd
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Post #9 made 13 years ago
[center]ADMINNOTE[/center]

Thank you Yeasty for looking after skates so well by starting a new thread :salute:.

Skates, welcome aboard. I have edited the first post here so it now reads as 7 paragraphs instead of your original single paragraph. I hope you don't mind.

I think the members here have answered several of your questions already. My worry is that some of your most important questions, such as taste results, may get lost.

As soon as you can, let the users know which questions they have answered and what ones still remain. One paragraph per question please ;).

Welcome aboard,
Pat

P.S. PM sent to skates linking this thread.
Last edited by Pat on 12 Feb 2012, 01:17, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #10 made 13 years ago
Hello to all- thanx for helping me out!!!

First, I have what I consider to be a more educated palate when it comes to beerdom. Before homebrewing, I usually gravitated toward some of the microbrews available here, one of my favorites is from a small Connecticut brewery known as Sea Hag- a tremendous IPA with a very pronounced hop flavor. I'm sure every country and region within has its favorites, I am also a Boddington's fan, and even Foster's special bitters. (I know....!!) The folks at miller / coors have come out with a nifty 6liter disposable (reuseable)draught system which is perfect for homebrew, but not available in my area yet. needless to say, I would invite people over to empty it first- think they would catch me sneaking something palatable? I believe I have put the crap beer to rest....

My problems are more that my brew lacks something somewhere, there seems to be an imbalance that I can't nail down. My chocolate stout is acceptable, but has a bit too much smoke and malt without enough bittering- I could probably tweak the recipe next time for more bittering hops and perhaps a bit lower mash temp. The amirillo APA- which is straight from the Master Guide here- I used two different yeasts on two different brews, remarkable differences in end product, I just gravitate towards the IPA end, and I find this APA a bit too mild(?) I quaffed a quart or two this morning (I work nights) when I got home, has improved a bit over the last week. I'm thinking I was consuming it a bit soon.... But I digress. I did notice a yeasty (sorry, Yeasty) character in the beer, the glass presentation was nice, color, clarity, good head, nice lacing, etc. and quite right for this recipe, the amirillo is the point man in this stuff. Aside from the slight yeastiness, I'm guessing I may not have as many problems as first thought, that this beer is spot on for what it is supposed to taste like. I just might not like it.

So on to the next, about to start the kettle for a second ESB, I have to bottle the first, can't wait to taste it, anticipating a Speckled Hen flavor, we'll see.

I do appreciate the support from all, and I hope to become better as I progress....
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Post #11 made 13 years ago
One more thing- I did download open office to handle the excel tasks, however I cant seem to get it to "see" the calculator- my pc defaults to office- can one of you guide me thru running the calculator on open? Thanx!!!
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Post #12 made 13 years ago
Hi skates

Glad to see you've tracked down your OP, :lol: You are obviously a man who likes his beer, not sure about the Boddingtons though :lol:

One thing I found when I started AG is that I was over critical of my own beers, one in particular was a Burton ale that had a taste on the finish that just didn't seem right. Then one day I bought a bottle of Timothy tailor landlord.That night I sat down and cracked it open, when I tasted it I immediately thought of my Burton ale. Tasting it side by side it was so close my wife couldn't tell which was which.
Another brew was a Choclate stout that I was unsure about but when I had a few mates around they loved it and emptied the keg!!
So what I'm really saying is that your yearning for perfection may be clouding your palette, have a go at side by side tasting or get some mates around it might just show you how good your beers really are.

Yeasty
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Post #13 made 13 years ago
Hi Yeasty (and all)

bottled my 1st ESB, or what I percieve to be an ESB, if the carbonated, aged (like that's going to happen around here) product is anything like what it tastes like straight from the fermenter, I think I have found my house beer!! I know about the Boddingtons, but here they come with the nitrogen widget in the can, the smoothness in the mouthfeel is outstanding. And I am facinated watching the huge ice creamy head cascade into beer..... aaahhhhh.... I guess I can have my co2 tank filled with beer mix and try to duplicate that someday....

Think I'll have a beer....
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Post #14 made 13 years ago
Hi Skates

I now live in Bolton and Boddies is supposed to be a local brew, the brewery sadly is long gone. It is now brewed across 3 different sites in the uk although I think the cask version is still Manchester based.

My personal taste is for cask bitters and stouts + porters. The big creamy head thing doesn't agree with me as I tend to fill up with gas :argh: . But thats the beauty of beer, there is something for everyone.

Hey!! just re-read your last post..if your drinking it straight from the fermenter you can't be that fussed about a bit of creamy head. :blush:

Yeasty
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Post #15 made 13 years ago
Hey Yeasty... We aren't talking about a pint or two, just a few ounces to see what's what. You have never sampled what comes out of your fermenter?? Just curious....
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Post #16 made 13 years ago
skates wrote:Hey Yeasty... We aren't talking about a pint or two, just a few ounces to see what's what. You have never sampled what comes out of your fermenter?? Just curious....
Hi Skates....I new what you were talking about, I was just kidding. :salute: I sample all the time..I've even had a full pint just to see if it could be done..just like the old days when it was just scooped out of the cask/barrel...or like in Australia when they get impatient. :lol: :lol:

:thumbs:

Yeasty
Last edited by Yeasty on 12 Feb 2012, 07:52, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #17 made 13 years ago
Welcome to the forum Skates! I always drink my samples. I think you have addressed some of the issues with your brews. I am curious about your APA with the yeasty taste. What yeast did you use? How long did you condition the beer and at what temperature? How long do your chill your bottles prior to drinking?

Post #18 made 13 years ago
You know Yeasty, I thought you were funnin me a bit. Hi Rifester- I think I used a muntons ale yeast first go round, then a Safale s-05 for the 2nd, I was comparing yeasts as well, they both were / are bottle conditioned in the same room as the fermenter, approx 65f., chill times vary according to when I have room in the fridge, but usually a few days to a week. I don't seem to have nearly as much of the yeast flavor ( better, Yeasty??) with the Safale, I was brewing extracts before, and I think the twang hid the yeast a bit. I have great hopes for the esb that was bottled today, if it matures the way I expect, it could be the only beer brewed here for a while. I will be quite happy to have one that I like and can brew consistantly, then perhaps I will broaden my horizons and brew something else. or not....?
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Post #19 made 13 years ago
S-05 finishes very clean. I have not used Munton's yeast. Congrats on the ESB! ESB is my house ale, and I am working on a few recipes. I also just ordered some East Kent Goldings and Williamette plants so I can grow my own hops for my ESB.
Last edited by Rifester on 12 Feb 2012, 09:18, edited 1 time in total.

Post #20 made 13 years ago
Skates,

Ive just begun messing around with the open office program. I suggested you down load it as I thought you did not have a spread sheet program.

Open office "should" run the calculator. To open the Calculator with Open Office, down load the Calculator, and save it to your computer. I usually save something new to the desk top. Once saved and closed, right click on the file, and a menu shoud pop up. On this menu there should be an entry that says "open with". scroll down to that entry, and you should see something about Open Office, click on that, and Open Office should open the Calculator.

For what it is worth, I may be the last person that should be making technical suggestions about computer stuff, but maybe this will help.

trout
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
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Post #21 made 13 years ago
Hi 2trout

Thanks, I don't have a spreadsheet program, my computer has the "demo" version of office, so I can open the calculator but can't change the values- like what good is that?? I will try your suggestion, Thank You!!
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