Hi there cdenney,

There's one really important issue we need to deal with on this recipe. Your mash efficiency is going to be much lower than usual due to the high gravity of this brew. Stux has been working on the maths for this and his numbers are coming in that your efficiency into the kettle will be only 71% - eleven percent lower than what you could expect from a brew with a gravity of 1.050.

I have a beta copy of the BIABacus here and can scale the recipe very quickly for you in US units.

To do this, I'd need...

1. All the info you have on your source recipe (preferably a link or 'recipe report'.)
2. Your kettle diameter (or, if you know it, how many gallons you boil off in an hour.)
3. Your normal kettle trub losses if you know them.
4. How much beer you want to get into your fermentor.

With this, I'll be able to send you the right weights etc. If you've already bought the grain, let me know and then I can tell you how much beer you can expect to get.

Cheers,
PP

When's your deadline Bek?

We can do a quick conversion (guestimate) or try for something a little better which takes a bit longer.

If you are happy to go for the latter, can you give a link to the original recipe or tell us where you got the recipe from? This will help a lot.

Cheers,
PP

I'm on the slowest internet connection ever atm so excuse my equally slow answers - lol.

I see the recipe is from MHB and he knows what he's talking about so that's good. Only problem is he has left out the AA5 of the hops so I might give him a ring to get some more details. Give me another day or so.

In the meantime, do you know what volume you boil off per hour with your pot? If not, can you let me know the pot's diameter so we can estimate the rate?

Later!
PP

Hi there Bek,

Sorry this has taken a few days. Got hold of Mark yesterday and he has given me a better recipe. You can find the original on his site if you register and download BrewBuilder - his software that allows you to order your recipes online. (Delivery to your area is minimal.)

Normally I'd be able to take the time to explain how I scaled your recipe but as I'm short on time, instead I have scaled the recipe using the beta version of the BIABacus and copied the recipe report below (first time this has been done!). Ask any questions you like, and if you want a 'checklist' for the brew, let me know and I'll send it to you.

Here you go!


BIABacus RECIPE REPORT
***********************
The Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler for BIAB Brewers
(The BIABacus will soon be available from http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Fuller's ESB (Wheeler) (Batch 1) - EPA Special/Best Bitter (8B)
Brewer: stoutgirl5
Original Recipe by: Wheeler
Information link: http://www.ubrew.com.au" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Equipment, Efficiencies and Losses
-------------------------------------
Equipment: 18.38 Litres Kettle with a diameter of 30 cm (Evaporation Rate:2.98 l/Hr)
Efficiencies: 82.2% Efficiency into Kettle (EIK) and 71.1% Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF)
Kettle to Fermentor Losses = 1.57 Litres - Fermentor to Packaging Losses = 0.74 Litres

Batch Gravities and Volumes
------------------------------
Volume of Mash (assuming a full-volume BIAB) = 19.39 Litres
Pre-Boil Volume and Pre-Boil Gravity = 16.52 Litres at 1.039
End of Boil Volume (before chilling) and End of Boil Gravity (or OG) = 12.05 Litres at 1.054
Volume into Fermentor and Original Gravity (OG) = 10 Litres at 1.054
Volume into Packaging (Bottles/Keg) and Final Gravity (FG) = 9.26 Litres at 1.013

Mashing and Boiling
---------------------------------
Single Infusion Mash at 66˚C for 90 minutes.
Boil for 90 minutes.
Mashing Instructions: This recipe requires 17.4 litres of water. Your kettle will be a too small to add all this at the beginning so hold back 4 litres and add it any time you can during the mash or the boil.

The Grain Bill (Original Gravity 1.054)
---------------------------------------
1821.04 g or 73.6% Perle Malt
483.58 g or 19.55% Flaked Maize
169.47 g or 6.85% Crystal (Caramel) 150

The Hop Bill (BBTinseth IBU's - 37.2)
-----------------------------------
6.03 g or 13.71 IBU's Target Pellets (9.4%) at 90mins.
4.74 g or 8.82 IBU's Challenger Pellets (7.7%) at 90mins.
6.03 g or 10.5 IBU's Northdown Pellets (7.2%) at 90mins.
9.13 g or 4.17 IBU's East Kent Golding Pellets (4.3%) at 15mins.

Miscellaneous
---------------

Miscellaneous Notes:

Yeast, Fermentation, Carbonation and Conditioning Details (ABV = 5.3%)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeast Choices: 1968 London ESB or Muntons Premium Gold
Ferment for 14 days at 18 ˚Celsius

Bulk prime with 40.4Grams of Table Sugar
Carbonate at 18˚Celsius for 14 days or Crash Chill at 1˚Celsius for 4 days and then transfer to keg.
Carbonate to 1.45 Volumes CO2.
This beer is best consumed between 0 days and 3 mths after carbonation.
Serving Temperature: 4˚C
Fermentation notes:

Special Recipe Notes or Instructions
--------------------------------------

Nil

Keep us informed Bek and

Yep, the report is printing out a few too many decimal places. You want 1.821 kg.

Hope the bag you are buying is okay. It should be fine like a stocking, not like netting, if that helps at all

Hi there I would like to ask if someone has converted recipes from Graham's Wheeler "Brew your own Real Ale" with the "calculator" .
What seems to be the correct "End of Boil Volume" for calculating the hop bill right .
I plan to brew some recipes from the book and I like to be as acurate I can be.

Establishing an EOBV might be very tricky nik. The only book I have come across that even gives an EOBV is Brewing Classic Styles and even in that they don't specify whether the EOBV is at ambient or at boiling point (I assume boiling point for Brewing Classic Styles.)

Unless a recipe does give the EOBV, it will be impossible to translate hop figures accurately - we have to make guesses. In recipe conversion, sometimes the amount of guesswork required makes the recipe useless.

Why don't you post one of his recipes here and we'll see what we can do with it?


PP

nik wrote:Hi there I would like to ask if someone has converted recipes from Graham's Wheeler "Brew your own Real Ale" with the "calculator" .
What seems to be the correct "End of Boil Volume" for calculating the hop bill right .
I plan to brew some recipes from the book and I like to be as acurate I can be.

Graham's recipes give three volumes based on three common sizes of fermenting vessels. I've taken this as being your volume into fermenter. So taking his middle volume of 23L as an example adjust your Brewlength in the calculator until your Volume into Fermenter cell reads 23L. (Brewlength should be around 21.3L depending on your FV Trub losses. I have 1.7L)

So using the above you get a EOBV at 20*c of 25.56L

Graham is a member of jims forum. I'll PM him and ask him what they relate to just to be sure.



Yeasty

EDIT: This is not correct See post 451 below for explanation.

@PP I dont want to break any copyrights regarding the book recipes maybe I'll post something generic.
@Yeasty

Yeasty wrote:

nik wrote:Hi there I would like to ask if someone has converted recipes from Graham's Wheeler "Brew your own Real Ale" with the "calculator" .
What seems to be the correct "End of Boil Volume" for calculating the hop bill right .
I plan to brew some recipes from the book and I like to be as acurate I can be.

Graham's recipes give three volumes based on three common sizes of fermenting vessels. I've taken this as being your volume into fermenter. So taking his middle volume of 23L as an example adjust your Brewlength in the calculator until your Volume into Fermenter cell reads 23L. (Brewlength should be around 21.3L depending on your FV Trub losses. I have 1.7L)

So using the above you get a EOBV at 20*c of 25.56L

Graham is a member of jims forum. I'll PM him and ask him what they relate to just to be sure.



Yeasty

I use the same logic as you usualy I ferment 19lt of beer and propably is the same thing as Graham's recipes for 19 liters but I asked if anyone knows for sure which in this case if Graham can contribute that it will be easier to convert all his recipes.

I'll give it a try and let you know my results.

I have played out a bit and with the assumption by Yeasty that the stated volumes are the "Volume in the Fermenter" the bitterness results are quite close 4-5 IBUs difference, so I beleive regarding that calculator calculates more effiecient bitterness they are quite close .So for now and until Graham indicate the oposite we are ok with that assumption I believe.
I have atach 2 files one is a printout from Grahams Beerengine brewing program which is free and the recipe is a sample recipe so I beleive is copyright free and the "calculator" sheet
I dont care much for the grain bill because its easy to calculate from percentages also the "calculator" has the flow of unmalted grains regarding their extrction abilities which in this recipe they are plenty of unmalted grist but the assumed volumes as I mention above give close enough bittering values .
If you have any different opinion or I missed something I am glad to dictate me.

Graham wheeler has been mentioned in a couple of threads tonight so I have done a bit of research and calculations using his recipes (both extract and all grain) and can deduct that his volumes in his book are End of Boil Volumes.

Example:

OG 1.049
Grain bill 4.12kg
Extract potential 300L/kg
Efficiency 75%
EOBV 19L

(Grainbill x Extract potential/EOBV)x efficiency = Gravity points

So with the above figures..

(4.12 x 300/19) x 75% = 48.78947367

Rounded this gives you 49 points..spot on



Yeasty

Thanks a lot Yeasty with your calculations the assumption that Graham gives the EOV in his recipes is right I input them in the calculator also and the bitterness figure is more precice (about 2 points upwards on the calculator) which leads to your calculations .So the bottom line is that in GW's Book "BYOBRA" the given recipe volume is "The End Of Boil Volume".

I'm sure Graham wouldn't mind one breach of copyright .

With recipe conversion, the gravity side of things should always be easy. If it isn't, then forget the recipe.

The hops/bitterness side is always more complicated because, to be completely accurate, you really need to know...

1. Pre-boil volume
2. Pre-boil gravity
3. Post-boil volume
4. Original gravity
5. Weight of hops
6. AA% of hops
7. Hop addition time

The only recipe report I have ever seen in a book or any software that includes all this info, clearly defined, is in the BIABacus (one day to be released ).

Hopefully Graham's recipe has the above info or you can work it out?


PP

Hello again!!!!!!

Have you got any clue about this recipe ...

Recipe: Evil Twin

This beer ends up rich and malty, yet with a devilishly huge hop aroma and flavor. It is loosely based on AleSmith's delicious Evil Dead Red. Thanks to Peter Zien for his help with this recipe.

Ingredients for 6 U.S. gallons (23 liters)
Target Original Gravity: 1.066 (16.21 Plato)
Approximate Final Gravity: 1.016 (4.08 Plato)
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70%
Anticipated SRM: 17
Anticipated IBU: 23.8
Anticipated ABV: 6.66%
Wort Boil Time: 90 minutes
12 lb (5.44 kg) British Pale Malt 3L
1 lb (0.45 kg) Crystal 40L
1 lb (0.45 kg) Munich Malt 8L
0.50 lb (0.22 kg) Victory Malt 25L
0.50 lb (0.22 kg) Crystal 120L
0.25 lb (0.11 kg) Pale Chocolate Malt 200L
0.5 oz. (14 g) Centennial pellet hops, 10% alpha acid (20 min.) (6.4 IBU)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Amarillo pellet hops, 7% alpha acid (20 min.) (4.5 IBU)
1 oz. (28 g) Centennial pellet hops, 10% alpha acid (10 min.) (7.6 IBU)
1 oz. (28 g) Amarillo pellet hops, 7% alpha acid (10 min.) (5.3 IBU)
1 oz. (28 g) Centennial pellet hops, 10% alpha acid (0 min.) (0 IBU)
1 oz. (28 g) Amarillo pellet hops, 7% alpha acid (0 min.) (0 IBU)

Extract with specialty grains option: Using liquid malt extract, replace English Pale Malt with 8.75 lbs (3.97 kg) pale malt extract. Replace the Munich malt with 0.75 lbs. (0.34 kg) Munich malt extract. Using dry malt extract, replace English Pale Malt with 7 lbs (3.17 kg) pale malt extract. Replace the Munich malt with 0.50 lbs. (0.22 kg) Munich malt extract.

Yeast: A clean neutral yeast that attenuates in the mid-seventy percent range is perfect. White Labs WLP001 or Wyeast 1056 American Ale are excellent choices. A good dry yeast option is Fermentis Safale US-56. Ferment at 68F (20 C).

Directions: Single infusion mash at 154F (68C) using a ratio of 1.3 quarts water to 1 pound of grain. While you could go with a shorter boil, the 90 minute boil enhances the blood-red color. It also adds a touch more melanoidin and caramel notes. Cool the wort quickly after the last hop addition to retain as much hop aroma as possible. Optionally, dry hop with more Centennial or Amarillo if you're a real hop monster. Carbonate to no more than 2 volumes and serve at 45 to 55 F (7.2 to 12.8 C).


http://www.mrmalty.com/late_hopping.php

Seems to be created with the same defaults as BCS book but when entering the values in "Calculator" gives higher IBU than the recipe (30IBU) which is quite odd because on BCS recipes when converted in "calculator" allways there is a difference downwards about 5 points IBU.
For alsmost equal IBU I must enter 30 liters EOB which seems to me much ...
Any thoughts ?
Also can this recipe stand for a competition.

Hi there nik!

Don't worry about the IBU's. The Calculator works on an average gravity from the beginning of the boil to the end of the boil. Most programs just use the start of boil gravity or the original gravity for their calcs. (The BIABacus works out the real average.) See how your first hop addition is at 20 minutes? This will throw any program's IBU results (except for the BIABacus) dramatically.

That's a very long article you linked but it looks interesting and definitely worth a read!

Cheers nik,
PP

If you enter the weight + aa% of the original recipe/volume. it shouldn't matter what IBUs are calculated. As long as the same calculations are used for the original and scaled recipe, the scaling will be correct. which they are