JerryMan wrote: I would assume that if the correct hop is entered it would give the correct value

Hi Jerry

Every bag of hops should have its AA% written on the side. AA stands for Alpha Acid and is the major bittering agent in the hops. This varies from harvest to harvest so when you use the calculator or BS2 the values have to be changed to match the values of the hops being used. This is then "formulated" to give the IBU value which relates to bitterness. Theres a bit of info on hops here http://biabrewer.info/viewforum.php?f=88
Have you brewed this kit yet ? or are you trying to use BS2 to get your volumes ? I'm assuming that the kit came with instructions but these aren't applicable to BIAB. If this is the case then for this brew I'd go with the calculator I've posted. Use the full grain bill and if the volumes are down top up with cooled boiled water.
Infact it would be a good idea to use the calculator for a good few brews until you are familiar with the methods and your system, posting them here if you are unsure of anything. Then start to use it in tandem with BS and compare results. This way you'll gain confidence in what you are doing and things will get easier.


Yeasty

Hi Jerry

Linky now working.

I'm going to continue this thread back on your First BIAB disaster post so as not to clog up the Recipe thread.

Yeasty

Hi Mikale

I've had a look and all is fine apart from a couple of points.

Your OG (1.053) reflects the OG into the fermenter. This has to be adjusted to allow for the extra gravity points the Syrup will provide. I've calculated that the syrup in hashies recipe provides about 5 gravity points. Take this away from the og and you have 1.048. This is the figure you need to put into the calculator.

Now you need to calculate what amount of syrup you need, the formula is:

((Gravity points required/Efficiency) X End of boil volume)/Potential extract = Amount needed in Kgs

This gives you the following,

((5/100%)x11.97)/307 = .1995Kg

Therefore you need to add 199.5g (200g) of syrup to bring the OG up to 1.053

note: the efficiency is 100% as all the syrup is fermentable. I've taken the potential extract value of the syrup as 307/kg/L. The potential extract of golden syrup seems to vary depending on what book your reading. I think this is close enough.



Yeasty

Yeasty: Loving your work

Mikale: Well done on filling in the calculator . If you can't get hold of Amarillo hops but still wish to brew the APA, you can substitute the Amarillo for say Cascade or Centennial and still end up with a great beer. (Not sure on your golden syrup question. hashie brews this recipe a lot so maybe he can help.)

Hi Mikale

You could just leave it out or subsitute it with something else. Honey is pretty close to Golden syrup, or you could go for a light brown sugar so as to keep it simple. As its your first brew why don't you leave it out then brew it again when you've got hold of some. That way you'll be able to compare and see what the syrup brings to the party

Oh and I'd use no more than half a profloc tablet.



Yeasty

Hi Mikale, you could leave the syrup out, it is really only adding to the overall OG, it does not impart a huge flavour profile.

If you want to, as Yeasty has said, you can add light brown sugar, honey or LDME.

Good luck and let us know how you go

Welcome to the forum rbtmc ,

I wish I'd clicked on your link to the original recipe first ! I thought the recipe report above was an original recipe report and hence wrote all of the following...

One hard thing to understand when converting recipes is that the vast majority of recipes posted on the net, do not have enough information and/or have been distorted due to report deficiencies and scaling inaccuracies of existing software.

Keeping track of what inaccuracies each bit of software has requires a spreadsheet in itself .

For example, unless a recipe report shows the pre-boil and post-boil volume, it is impossible to do an accurate conversion. I know of only one program that supplies the above in two of their recipe reports but unfortunately, this program's IBU formulas are incorrect.

In this Recipe Report, we are given a batch size of 23 L. In some programs, this means the end of boil volume. In others it means the volume into fermentor. I can't remember what BrewMate means by this...

This recipe report also states a 'brewhouse efficiency' of 80%. Once again, in some programs it might mean 'efficiency into fermentor' while in otheres it might mean, 'efficiency into the kettle' or post-boil efficiency.'

Putting the above two unknowns together multiplies the problem. Often I can guess what the recipe should be to some accuracy or I can spend 30 or 40 minutes 'divining' and then writing what what the recipe should be.

This recipe report though immediately tells me it is a recipe that shouldn't be trusted. No matter what they mean by an 80% efficiency, it is way too high for a beer with an original gravity of 1.072.

Okay, in writing all that, a lot of it still applies. And, it would still take quite a while for me to scale this recipe well as there are a heap of discrepancies. I honestly do not think it is a sensible recipe to do for your first or even third or fifth all-grain. The gravities and IBU's alone are so high that they make the scaling complexities very hard to do and explain with any current brewing software. For example, a high gravity brew such as this requires a considerable lowering of whatever efficiency figure drives the software. No existing software automatically estimates this.

If you want a really drinkable, interesting, hoppy beer then I would brew this one.

I can scale that recipe for you in a couple of minutes . You will also learn a lot more form brewing that recipe than brewing a high gravity, highly hopped beer. There is a real learning curve in AG and it is important to start at the right place.

For example, a 120 minute boil to increase gravity is not the way to go. Reducing the desired volume into fermentor figure is a better way or post-boil or intra-boil dilution. Reducing alcohol percentage can sacrifice the integrity of some recipes so this would be unwise in many cases. These are just some of the many considerations when playing around with high gravity, highly hopped beers.

Start with the beer I linked above. You will love it. By the time you have done a few brews, 'The Calculator' on BIABrewer.info will have been transformed and you will have far more safe recipe options available to you.


PP

The simple answer would be to add DME to your recipe to raise the gravity. Beats messing around with multiple mashes, extended boils, sparging, using a reduce L:G ratio and adding top up water, etc.

rbtmc wrote:Thanks for the reply Pistol.
It's funny that you should mention that Amarillo brew, as the last batch I made was very similar (SMaSH, Maris Otter & Amarillo) only with a few more IBU's and some dry hoppage.

Can you recommend me a decent high gravity recipe to suit my equipment?
How does one obtain high gravity brews with an electric urn? (I realise it's a bit more difficult with only 40L to work with) I'd like to see a thread detailing the way you should go about it. Obviously some amount of sparging would be in order.

I'm having a look at the calculator you mentioned now and it's just what I've been looking for !!

Cheers

Basically, the best approach would probably be to use the calculator to work out your starting volumes and grain bill.

Then 40L - 0.7 * KG of grain is how much water you can actually use in your urn...

reserve the remainder of your starting volume to do a dunk sparge.

ie, have another pot with that water at about 80C and pull the bag out of your primary urn, squeeze it, pop it in the other pot, stir, wait, stir, then pull and drain.

Combine both volumes, then do your boil.

For high gravity brewing its best to crank your boil as high as you can, or extend it to 90/120 mins so you can get more evaporation.

Basically, the more water you can get in your mash and you dunk, then the more efficiency you will have

rbtmc wrote:Thanks for the reply Pistol.
It's funny that you should mention that Amarillo brew, as the last batch I made was very similar (SMaSH, Maris Otter & Amarillo) only with a few more IBU's and some dry hoppage.

Can you recommend me a decent high gravity recipe to suit my equipment?
How does one obtain high gravity brews with an electric urn? (I realise it's a bit more difficult with only 40L to work with) I'd like to see a thread detailing the way you should go about it. Obviously some amount of sparging would be in order.

I'm having a look at the calculator you mentioned now and it's just what I've been looking for !!

Cheers

Sorry rbtmc, I didn't realise you had already done some brews

If you want to brew the Hopslam Clone here's what I reckon...

1. Have a read of this thread. It will give you a bit of an overview of how to brew big beers in a small kettle.

2. Then, if you can post the original Hopslam recipe here in metric, I'll put it into the Calculator for you. (Make sure you post the diameter of your kettle as well.)

3. After that, we can fine-tune it. Stux is a gun on 'Maxi-BIAB' and will also be able to offer a few suggestions on efficiency etc once we get your recipe into 'calculator' format.

It looks like a nice recipe so I reckon that seeing you have done a brew or two, it will be worth you giving this one a crack.


PP

Hi there Rolhol and welcome to the forum

Great to hear you are going on your maiden voyage on Sunday . Sorry to hear your computer blew up . I've copied a new recipe report below for you which will give you volumes, grain weights and hop weights to use.

What I've done is changed your brew length to 20 L and I'm guessing your pot diameter will be about 37cm. What you'll need to do is hold back 5 litres during the mash so your kettle doesn't overflow. You should add this after you mash out, either by heating it in a second pot on your stove pot or, if this is not an option, just throw it into your kettle cold. The second option will just slow things down a little. If you can do the first option and can pour the 5 litres hot through your grain bag and into a bucket and then add it to the kettle, this will help you get the efficiency I am using below.

It's a great recipe though so it will still taste excellent no matter what gravity you end up with. Here you go...

[center]AMERICAN PALE ALE - NRB'S All Amarillo APA for Rolhol[/center]
Thanks to NRB for the original recipe he posted here.

OVERVIEW

Style: American Pale Ale
Name: NRB's All Amarillo American Pale Ale
Yeast: US-56 (US-05)
Fermentation Temperature: 18 C
Original Gravity: 1.058
Total IBU's: 31.0
Colour (EBC): 24.6
Efficiency at End of Boil: 81%
Mash Length (mins): 90
Boil Length (mins): 90
Your Vessel Type (Pot/Keggle/Urn): Pot
Source/Credits: Original recipe can be found here
Notes/Instructions/Comments: A very popular and robust recipe. Amounts can be varied greatly whilst still getting a great beer.

Volumes etc.

Your Vessel Volume (L or gal): 39 L
Your Vessel Diameter (cm or in): 37 cm
Water Required (L or gal): 39.7 L (Hold 5 L back to avoid overflow)
Mash Temperature (C or F): 65 C
Volume at End of Boil (L or gal): 25.2 L
Volume into Fermenter (L or gal): 21.6 L
Brew Length (L or gal): 20.0 L
Total Grain Bill (g or oz): 5878 g

Grains - Colours - Percentages and/or Weight (g or oz)

Grain 1: Pale Ale Malt (Any type) - 3.6 EBC - 76.9% or 4,520 g
Grain 2: Munich 1 - 17.6 EBC - 15.4% or 905 g
Grain 3: CaraAmber - 94.2 EBC - 7.8% or 458 g

Hops - AA% - IBUs - Weight (g or oz) at Minutes

Hop 1: US Amarillo - 8.9AA% - 30 IBUs - 28.5 g at 60 min
Hop 2: US Amarillo - 8.9AA% - 9 IBUs - 25.2 g at 20 min
Hop 3: US Amarillo - 8.9AA% - 4 IBUs - 19.7 g at 5 min

Adjuncts/Minerals/Finings etc

Adjunct: 1 teaspoon yeast nutrient at 10 min.
Mineral:
Finings: 1/2 tablet of Whirfloc at 10 min.

and if you have any more questions, let us know.
PP

No worries Rolhol

I'm not brilliant at recipe design so I don't think I can suggest a second recipe. Stux mentioned an iPhone app the other day called Brew Pal which tells you what styles (based on colour, gravity and bitterness only) might suit the ingredients you have on hand. Or maybe start a new thread on this.

And you want to brew two batches on your first day . Good on you . No drinking until half way through the second batch - lol!

Make sure you let us know how you go. Best of luck,
PP

Nice job!

I would put in your 200 grams of Munich and 500 grams of your caraamber. Reduce the pale malt by 700 grams.

I'd personally go a bit lighter on the hop bill but see what the balance looks like in BeerSmith. That's pretty hoppy .

Good on you

One other thing, your grain bill on both these brews is higher than the average brew so your efficiency will be a bit lower. This means you mightn't quite hit your desired OG. You could either increase the grain bills by four or five hundred grams but on your first brews, I wouldn't be worried. Both those recipes should come out pretty well. (I always brew the NRB All Amarillo Ale at about 1.050 instead of 1.058.)

The recipe looks good and it sounds like your pot will be big enough after all.

If, in the future, you need to do a bigger batch, you can reduce your starting volume by x and add it back later.