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Post #2126 made 10 years ago
by shetc
Mad_Scientist wrote:Set it to 70% and see if it matches better, see page 40.
Sorry MS, which page 40 are your referring to?
Last edited by shetc on 22 Jul 2015, 23:49, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #2128 made 10 years ago
by shetc
Mad_Scientist wrote:Your BCS book
Oh yeah, the book! I was looking at page 40 of this thread :headhit:

OK, so haven't done this before -- I went to Section X of the BIABacus and entered 70% for the "Adjust Auto Kettle Efficiency".

Fermentables Bill changes including 84% and 70% efficiency settings:

Code: Select all

        Book   84%    70%
2-Row   6.00   4.56   5.46				
Rye     3.75   2.85   3.42
Wheat   3.00   2.28   2.73
Does this look better?
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Last edited by shetc on 23 Jul 2015, 07:47, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #2129 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
That 70% is based on recipes in the book (so everyone is on the same page). You can now delete the 70% and take the BIABacus's default, as you and I should get a better efficiency with BIAB and equipment, right?
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Re:

Post #2130 made 10 years ago
by shetc
Mad_Scientist wrote:That 70% is based on recipes in the book (so everyone is on the same page). You can now delete the 70% and take the BIABacus's default, as you and I should get a better efficiency with BIAB and equipment, right?
Ok, so I should go with the original 84% since I should be getting better efficiency than reported by the authors. Appreciate the explanation!

Now I have another question for you, MS :-) My friend gave me a ton of delicious mangoes, which I want to use with this rye ale. According to the Book, I should get rid of the 2 late additions of hops so that the flavor of the fruit will come through. Do you concur?
Last edited by shetc on 23 Jul 2015, 10:23, edited 6 times in total.
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Re:

Post #2132 made 10 years ago
by shetc
Mad_Scientist wrote:What book? :lol: I concur, those 2 brewers probably know a thing or three.
I'm thinking that it's only 20 IBU so I'll use all of the hops, and secondary on mango. I have lots of mango so if the flavor needs a bit more after the secondary then I can "dry hop" with some more of the mango.
Last edited by shetc on 25 Jul 2015, 02:07, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #2133 made 10 years ago
by goulaigan
I am really interested to see how this turns out. I'm a sucker for fruit beers, and they keep Mrs Goulaigan happy when she runs out of wine too... Keep us posted :)
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Post #2134 made 10 years ago
by Addictedtohops
Hello,
for my first BIAB I was just going to use the Amarillo and Chinook APA recipe which I have converted for my equiptment, but I have recently been drinking Pirate Life IPA and love the taste. I know the hops they use are centennial, columbus, simcoe and mosaic. Could I simply swap the amarillo and chinook hops for these? Or due to not knowing how much of each, would this be a silly idea? I'm not after something that tastes the same, but I thought seeing as I like these hops maybe I could experiment with them. If I am better sticking with a tried and true recipe then I will go ahead with that!
Cheers

Post #2135 made 10 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
I would brew something simpler than that IIPA, an APA sounds safe. Do you have that entered into the BIABacus? Post it here, if you want us to review it.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk
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Post #2136 made 10 years ago
by Addictedtohops
For sure. The APA recipe is the one that has already been entered into Biabacus. But what I was asking was if it was possible to just use the hops that are in Pirate Life instead of the Amarillo and Chinook or would that be a silly idea due to not knowing how much of each to use. But yes just starting with something that has been done and been successful!

Post #2138 made 10 years ago
by shetc
shetc wrote:I'm thinking that it's only 20 IBU so I'll use all of the hops, and secondary on mango. I have lots of mango so if the flavor needs a bit more after the secondary then I can "dry hop" with some more of the mango.
Probably a bit off topic but here is my plan for adding the fruit flavor based on reading a lot of articles:

1) Finish primary fermentation
2) Taste beer to see if it is good
3) Defrost 5 lbs mango (guessing mango is a "medium" flavored fruit so weigh out 1 lb per gallon)
4) Sterilize using vintners' technique
-- Mash mango in a sanitized bucket
-- Add one crushed Campden tablet for every gallon of the "mini-must"
-- Let sit, loosely covered, overnight
5) Add mango mash into a paint bag and suspend in a keg
6) Pour beer into keg
7) Close keg
8) Add a little CO2 for a beer blanket
9) Put a blow off tube in the gas-in quick connect hole
10) Pull samples until desired flavor is reached
Last edited by shetc on 12 Aug 2015, 09:41, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #2139 made 10 years ago
by goulaigan
Sounds like a good way to do it. Basically your doing a secondary fermentation in the keg correct?

I have done fruit beers a few different ways, recently did an all Mosaic IPA with 2 fresh pineapples chopped and added (in my biab bag) for the last 15 mins of the boil. I am surprised how much pineapple flavour came through in the finished beer since the general consensus seems to be to add fruit at secondary or at packaging. I've also used pure organic juice at secondary and for batch priming instead of sugar at bottling, which also worked very well.

You have hit on an important aspect of fruit beers tho with your 'medium flavored fruit' comment. Some fruits are more or less subtle in the final product, so its a it of a guessing game, especially using fruits that haven't been done a whole lot, as info seems to be a bit lacking out there on how much to use, not to mention that one persons idea of 'subtle' can be totally different than the next. Anyway, let us know how it turns out!
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Re:

Post #2140 made 10 years ago
by shetc
goulaigan wrote:Sounds like a good way to do it. Basically your doing a secondary fermentation in the keg correct?

I have done fruit beers a few different ways, recently did an all Mosaic IPA with 2 fresh pineapples chopped and added (in my biab bag) for the last 15 mins of the boil. I am surprised how much pineapple flavour came through in the finished beer since the general consensus seems to be to add fruit at secondary or at packaging. I've also used pure organic juice at secondary and for batch priming instead of sugar at bottling, which also worked very well.

You have hit on an important aspect of fruit beers tho with your 'medium flavored fruit' comment. Some fruits are more or less subtle in the final product, so its a it of a guessing game, especially using fruits that haven't been done a whole lot, as info seems to be a bit lacking out there on how much to use, not to mention that one persons idea of 'subtle' can be totally different than the next. Anyway, let us know how it turns out!
Thanks for the feedback, goulaigan!
Last edited by shetc on 13 Aug 2015, 02:34, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #2141 made 10 years ago
by Blankly
Hey guys! This is my first use of the BIABacus, first beer brew, and first recipe. I realize I'm going for a lot on my first try but that's just how I do things.

Here is my setup:

15 Gal SS BrewBuilt Kettle (for 5 Gal batches)
60,000 BTU Propane Camp Stove
brewinabag.com 60L bag
50' SS IC (with a pump to recirculate water from an ice chest)

I tried to make sure the recipe fit the BJCP style guidelines as it's something I intend to compete with in the future. My brew day is tentatively set for this coming Saturday. I originally worked out this recipe in BrewersFriend but I really don't trust it as it isn't something like BIABacus that has been purpose built for use with BIAB.

I do have a question in regards to the hop and IBU calculation. The suggested amounts are more than what BrewersFriend suggested would get me to around 24 IBU. I have the amount from BrewersFriend and the amount in the spreadsheet. Which should I go with?

It would also be great if I could please get at least a couple of pairs of experienced eyes to look over my BIABacus profile for this beer and make sure I haven't screwed something up. I am pretty sure I filled it out completely.
BIABacus PR1.3T - Saison - Competition Saison - Batch 1.xls
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Last edited by Blankly on 20 Aug 2015, 07:41, edited 6 times in total.

Post #2143 made 10 years ago
by Blankly
The recipe is just a hodgepodge but used in suggested general proportions of grains for the style. It's mostly pils with a touch of vienna for some earthiness and flaked wheat for added body and head retention. The midnight is for color without imparting flavor. I had someone already look over the grain bill at my LHBS and got the okay on that. The calcium chloride and acidulated malt are used since I'll be brewing with RO water and adding nothing else.

Thanks for checking out the spreadsheet and the heads up on that Tinseth Calculator. It did match the BIABacus. I don't know why the BrewersFriend recipe builder is so far off. It's 6 points under...

Post #2144 made 10 years ago
by Rick
BJCP uses Rager, so you will get less on the BIABacus than you would when targeting style guidelines. Meaning 18 IBU Tinseth would fall within the 20-35 Rager in the guidelines. Quick calculation, 18 IBU Tinseth would be 23.8 Rager here. Left side of your hop bill would produce just that for this brew if left alone.

Also, for a saison I would be using 10-20% simple sugar to dry it out .. and I would mash a bit lower @ 145-147F. Also, have some champagne yeast on hand just in case it still doesn't attenuate enough for style.
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Post #2145 made 10 years ago
by goulaigan
One of my favourite styles, that looks like it could be a good Saison. I usually use some special B or the likes for a colour addition that also brings some flavour rather than something like midnight wheat. Colour can officially be 5-14 srm so colour additions are pretty unnecessary, but it will be fine the way you are going as well. Many people do use sugar in this style, I don't and would say its only optional, I usually brew mine up around 1.06-1.065 and they dry out plenty without the sugar.

Saisons can actually be pretty simple or pretty complex on the grain bill and still come out to style, as long as you don't use the wrong grain like an american crystal or something sweet like that. In any case, I have made a few, I usually mash around 64-65 and they come out nice and dry, however I prefer the WLP566, it doesn't stall out and will attenuate pretty much anything down sub 1.01. I haven't used the french version (590) but I know a brewer who does use it and I believe it is similar in not stalling and high attenuation so I am sure it will be fine too. wlp565 on the other hand really likes to stall out.

Only other advice I have is let it ferment nice and warm, not above 30c but if you ferment down around 20 you won't get as much of the 'saisonyness' :) 23 should be ok. I don't have a ferm chamber and let them go as high as they want, sometimes up to 26-27C the first couple days, never had an off flavour and actually got a silver in a bjcp comp for the first one I ever brewed...

Good luck with it, I am sure it will turn out awesome! Oh and they also get much better with some age. Totally different beer after a month or more of conditioning, compared to a week or 2.
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Post #2146 made 10 years ago
by Blankly
@Rick

Where have you seen that BJCP uses Rager? Everything I have read says that the BJCP range is based on actual lab reported IBU values of the beers selected that are listed as representational of the style. Because of that I just want the most accurate IBU estimation, which from what I've read is Tinseth. Thanks for clearing up that difference in the IBU. What's weird though is that Tinseth was selected in BrewersFriend. Must be a bug.

I picked the yeast strain (WL590) particularly for it's high attenuation. I believe, based on the tasting room data posted on the White Labs website, that I shouldn't have a problem getting it as dry as it needs to be to match the BJCP guidelines without adding sugar or another yeast to finish it up.

Brewed By Joseph Kurowski
Style Saison
Beverage Type Beer
Strain WLP590
Ferment Temp 68
Brew Date 1/23/2015
Batch # 441.03
Brew Method BS
Alcohol by Vol. (20 °C) 5.93
Alcohol by Weight 4.67
Apparent Attenuation 92.67
Apparent Extract 0.89
Calories 156.39
Color 3.2
Original Extract 12.08
pH 4.28
Real Degree Attenuation 76.1
Real Extract 3.03
Specific gravity 1.003


@goulaigan

My SRM was lower than the style guidelines so I bumped it up a bit. I agree that it's unnecessary though. I just did it for kicks. I used Midnight because I want to see what mostly pils, vienna, and flaked wheat saison tastes like. I will probably take your route in the future if I feel it's lacking something special.

As for the yeast, like I showed above, it is a monster attenuator so I should be fine like you said. The optimal range listed for the yeast is 68-75° F. I emailed White Labs about the yeast and ester/phenol production over the range to see what they have to say. I also asked about their mash temperate/schedule to get down to 1.003. Hopefully I get a reply back before Saturday.

Thanks for the feedback guys! I really appreciate it.
Last edited by Blankly on 21 Aug 2015, 01:34, edited 6 times in total.

Post #2148 made 10 years ago
by Rick
Here's another decent thread with further explanation from Martin ...
http://canyoubrewit.com/forum/viewtopic ... 4&p=224449

While BJCP might be to lab numbers, it is not practical for us homebrewers to pay for testing ... and Rager is simply the safest choice for pilot batches. With that said, I reeeeallly prefer Tinseth.
Last edited by Rick on 21 Aug 2015, 02:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #2149 made 10 years ago
by goulaigan
From what I know of BJCP comps, (which is not a whole lot I admit) they generally do not require your recipe, so they don't use any formulas to calculate hop bitterness. They use their pallet. Tinseth, Rager, and Garetz are just formulas to calculate bitterness based on AA and addition times...
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Post #2150 made 10 years ago
by Blankly
Rick wrote:Jamil uses Rager in BCS for his recipes ... which are all designed to conform to the BJCP guidelines (which are listed within the book for each style).

Also, another trusted source of mine is Martin Brungard.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... pic=6610.0

It really doesn't matter, but so many people like myself sweat the details .. even if they are only estimates.
I read that same post and got out of it that I should use Tinseth for better accuracy. :lol: I'm going to go with Tinseth and see how it goes. I'll report back on the recipe after a couple of tries and possible adjustments and yeast strains based on my setup. (in the recipes section)

Thanks
Last edited by Blankly on 21 Aug 2015, 02:24, edited 6 times in total.
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