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Post #151 made 15 years ago
by 2trout
I am wrapping my head around converting recipes, and I am getting it, but I seem to be having problems with the Hop Bill sheet.

Once Hops are entered into to appropriate cells using weights and %AA, the page calculates an IBU for the scaled recipe for you. This seems to work fine. However, If I then manipulate scaled recipe hop weights or AA%, the IBUs as calculated by the spreadsheet don't change. Am missing/doing somthing wrong? :scratch:
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
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Post #152 made 15 years ago
by BrickBrewHaus
2trout wrote:I am wrapping my head around converting recipes, and I am getting it, but I seem to be having problems with the Hop Bill sheet.

Once Hops are entered into to appropriate cells using weights and %AA, the page calculates an IBU for the scaled recipe for you. This seems to work fine. However, If I then manipulate scaled recipe hop weights or AA%, the IBUs as calculated by the spreadsheet don't change. Am missing/doing somthing wrong? :scratch:
The Calculator's Hop Bill page is designed to tell the amount of hops (at a given AA%) that you need to add (at a given time) in order to achieve the IBUs of the original recipe. It does not calculate the IBUs achieved by adding a quantity of hops of a certain AA% (the task you're trying to perform).

If you're changing the "AA%" of the scaled recipe, then you should notice that the "Grams" of the scaled recipe is changing, not the IBUs.

If you're changing the "Grams" of the scaled recipe, you may have overridden the formula in that cell, in which case you've lost the ability to calculate anything. If this is the case, then I would download The Calculator again and start over.

Hope this helps.
Last edited by BrickBrewHaus on 15 Feb 2011, 03:24, edited 9 times in total.

Post #153 made 15 years ago
by 2trout
Thanks Brick.

I have changed the grams of the scaled recipe and experienced the problem with lost calculation ability you mentioned.

I thought that I could manipulate the AA% or grams of the scaled recipe to manipilate the IBUs of the scaled recipe.
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
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Post #154 made 15 years ago
by big dave
Howdy crew

I hope this is the appropriate spot to plonk this query. If not, I am happy to re-start elsewhere or for the mods to split it off....

I have just about finished setting up my BIAB rig after a year of K&K and then extract brewing. I have a 50 litre keggle (400mm dia), standard voile bag, 3-ring gas burner, and 25 and 30 litre fermenters. Will call the people at G&G shortly to order the bits for the ingredients.

Recipe is Dr Smurto's Golden Ale, sourced from Oliver and Geoff's HB&B forum, and is one of the popular brews there. My best all-extract brew was one of these. I do intend to bitter with Galaxy or another high AA% hop at 60 min, and save the Amarillo for future use.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Boil Size: 34.84 L
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 12.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 30.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 56.60 %
1.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 18.87 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 18.87 %
0.30 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (49.3 EBC) Grain 5.66 %
20.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (60 min) Hops 18.5 IBU
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (20 min) Hops 8.4 IBU
20.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (5 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05(56))Y


Comments?
Drinking: last K&B & extract brews, BIAB #1- Golden Ale, #2- Pale Ale, #3- Galaxy Single-hop Ale
In the Pipeline: ESB, Landlord

Post #155 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
:dunno:
big dave wrote:Howdy crew

I hope this is the appropriate spot to plonk this query....
This is the perfect spot Dave, welcome to the forum and congratulations on a well-written first post :peace:. (My answer below is way too long I suspect so jump to the end of this post for my quick answer!)

Dr Smurto's is a very popular recipe but if you haven't as yet ordered your grain then I would brew NRB's All Amarillo APA. Anyone I have met who has tried or brewed both beers, prefers the latter. It's a bit more exciting without being an overly hoppy or heavy beer as it doesn't get dragged down by any wheat.

So, consider this recipe.

Another bonus is that the above link also contains a downloadable spreadsheet!

Your intention to bitter with Galaxy or another high AA% hop is a good decision as bittering hops impart little, if any, flavour to the beer from my understanding of brewing folklore. I respect folklore but never am able to trust it entirely. So, if brewing an APA, I always use Galaxy as the bittering hop. It is also a very good hop in its own right and you can use it as a flavour or aroma hop without fear.

Let's forget what recipe you choose though. The main problem you will have on your first BIAB though is working out your initial volume, your efficiency and your evaporation rate. The Calculator is the safest place to start as it 'tells' you these things and gets you very much within the ballpark.

Your recipe looks as though it comes from Beersmith which is an excellent program written by a most dedicated brewer, Brad Smith. Brad has always intended that 'Batch Size' is the brewer's volume from the fermenter, 'the amount of beer you hope to brew.' A very sensible definition but many brewers treat their Beersmith, 'batch size' as being the end of boil volume or their volume into the fermenter. I have never been able to get to the bottom of this massive misunderstanding.

This causes a massive amount of confusion and this is what creates much of the detective work in recipe conversion. A common agreement on 'batch size' would shrink this thread by 90%!

Your recipe definitely does not mean the batch size as being the amount of beer you will drink. I haven't 'guessed,' yet what your recipe means by 'batch size.' It's somewhere between your volume into the fermenter and your end of boil volume.

I'm horribly stuck for time at the moment to make the correct 'guess.' If you, too, are short on time, you definitely shouldn't be worried about putting 35 L into your kettle and using either grain bill or hop schedule as is written.

Dr Smurto's and NRB's recipes are very robust. The beer should be good to truly excellent. The result will mainly depend on what recipe you choose, not so much the batch size.

My apologies that such a rambler has answered your question dave. Here's my quick answer...

Yep, that's all good. Brew it and there will be no problems. Looking forward to hearing how you go,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 18 Feb 2011, 20:10, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #156 made 15 years ago
by big dave
Many thanks for the reply PP.

I have ordered the grain and hops for the Dr S ale, so I will roll with that for now. I have to give the keggle a good clean and scrub, mark out my volumes on my mash paddle, and give the rig a final once-over before I can brew on (hopefully) Wednesday. I have been a little torn about whether or not to start with a simpler grain and hop bill, and change the variables one at a time, but have decided to start with this one because it went so well as an all-extract brew.

As an aside, I spent a while today reading thru the origins of BIAB on the AHB forum. A fascinating read. You have some history doing this!

Cheers BD
Drinking: last K&B & extract brews, BIAB #1- Golden Ale, #2- Pale Ale, #3- Galaxy Single-hop Ale
In the Pipeline: ESB, Landlord

Post #157 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
No worries BD,

I think your plan is fine. There is no need to go for a simple grain or hop bill. Your recipe is a very good one. Try to do as much as you can before you brew such as weighing out hops etc. This will make for a smoother brew day.

I had a bit more time tonight and so have looked at your recipe in more detail and added a Calculator spreadsheet here that I think will help. The main result to focus on there is the water required being about 40 L and that this is going to give you a lot of beer! You can still play around with these figures a bit and be very confident in the final result. (If I get time before Wednesday, I'll see if I can work out what program the original gravity comes from as this will tell us more.)

Cheers,
PP
big dave Dr Smurto's Golden Ale.xls
P.S. I can't believe you read through all the original stuff Dave! LOL! You must be very tired now :lol:. I also had to go back to check some history the other day. Funny to see in hindsight that we were worrying about nothing :smoke:.
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 21 Feb 2011, 21:33, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #158 made 15 years ago
by 2trout
Ok Still trying to grasp this. Sorry :roll: .

Pistol, Im following some of your conversions on page a 3 of this thread. Specifically posts 53 and 54. Here is the recipe from pkearney,
Hi I would appreciate some help with this conversion ,it is a dry stout from Jamils book .I have made it as Partial .Want to try BIAB
OG 1.042
ADF 75%
IBU 41
60 min Boil
Boiler is 40 l
Dia 35.5cm
3170 g British pale ale Malt
900g flaked Barley
450 g Black roasted barley
Hops Kent Goldings 5% AA 60 min 57 g
Pre boil Vol 26.5 l
Thanks Phill
and your excellent detailed response is here
Have re-checked everything Phil and this conversion is good to go. At the end of the post you'll find a copy of The Calculator with the inputs described below.

The below will be be a long read but I'm not sure there is a short helpful way of doing and explaining recipe conversions. Anyway, here you go...

Firstly, I have just downloaded the latest version of The Calculator from the site so as we are on the same page.

First Page of The Calculator - Volume and Grain Bill Totals

On the first page change the figures in red to suit your equipment. So, change the "Diameter of Kettle" from 45 to 35.5 cm. Secondly change the "End of Boil Gravity (OG)" figure from 1.048 to 1.042.

But, what figure should you use for Brew Length?

You should ignore the 26.5L pre-boil volume figure provided by Jamil and John. Instead, look at the bottom of page 41 of their book and you will see that they have said, "All of these recipes are designed to leave 22.7L of wort in the kettle after the [60 minute] boil." These figures are far more accurate to work with as they are post-boil (post-evaporation.)

I personally think that, where possible, a 90 minute boil should be done as it avoids a lot of potential problems. The Calculator is already set at 90 minutes so no need to change that figure.

So, the last thing we need to do on the first page is keep changing the Brew Length figure (in red) until the "End of Boil Volume (Batch Size) equals 22.7 L.

An 18L Batch Size gets very close to this so let's use that. (In reality, you will end up with more than 18 L of beer as The Calculator is very generous in its trub allowances.)

Now that we have done the above, we can see that The Calculator says we need 3928 g of grain. The other crucial figure we get from the first page is "Water Required is..." 31.5 L.

Let's go to the second page now...

Second Page of The Calculator - The Grain Bill

The Calculator allows you to either put in the original weights of the recipe or their percentages. Either way will work. I'll use the percentages that Jamil and John have listed...

So, in Cell B6 I type, 62.5, B7 I type 25 and B8 I type 12.5. The Calculator tells me in G6, G7 and G8 that I need 2,455 g, 982 g and 491 g of grain respectively. (If you didn't have percentages readily available you should have typed in 2260 to Cell D6, 900 into D7 and 450 into D8. You can do this now and see that the result is the same.) So, you'll need the following grain bill...)

2455 g English Pale Ale
982 g Flake Barley
491 g Roasted Barley

Third Page of The Calculator - The Hop Bill

What we need to look at on this third sheet, once again, is the figures in red. The first one is the Original Gravity of Recipe. (This is a bit unclear but it means the Original Gravity of the original recipe.) In most cases, you will never need to change this - in fact, I can't see any cases where it would need changing for a straight recipe conversion so perhaps BIABrewer should un-"red" this figure :).

The second red figure is the End of Boil Volume. This is important. Once again, it is a bit unclear that it requires the original "End of Boil Volume" of the original recipe - it might be better if future versions of The Calculator just had "zero" as the default???

Anyway, the End of Boil Volume of the original recipe is not a problem in our case as we have already adjusted our recipe to assume a brew length that will give us an end of boil volume of 22.68 L.

Although we are doing a 90 minute boil rather than Jamil and John's 60 minute boil, I would still throw the hops in at 60 minutes. (I usually do this.)

You will notice that the result on the right is exactly the same as Jamil and John's recipe. This is because our end of boil volume, our AA% and our hop addition times are identical
I understand your description of page 1. I think I get it.

Page two "The Grain Bill" has me pulling out hair.

Specificly, this paragraph
So, in Cell B6 I type, 62.5, B7 I type 25 and B8 I type 12.5. The Calculator tells me in G6, G7 and G8 that I need 2,455 g, 982 g and 491 g of grain respectively. (If you didn't have percentages readily available you should have typed in 2260 to Cell D6, 900 into D7 and 450 into D8. You can do this now and see that the result is the same.) So, you'll need the following grain bill...)
If I did not have percentages readily available, shouldnt I type in 3170 into cell D6, 900g into cell D7, and 450g into cell D8? These weights are straight from the recipe. I dont understand where the weight of 2260g for cell D6 comes from. If I calculate percentages from the quoted recipe, I come up with 70% (3170g), 20%(900g), and 10%(450g). Am I really off :headhit:? Help?
Last edited by 2trout on 22 Feb 2011, 12:51, edited 9 times in total.
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
    • BME Brewer With Over 5 Brews From United States of America

Post #159 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
Okay, firstly, let's not tell pkearney about this :whistle:.* Secondly, thanks so much for spending the time to provide so much detail above. It would have taken me ages to answer here if you hadn't :champ:.

I remember writing that post and re-writing it several times and being pushed for time! It looks like I made a stuff up! (The stuff-up was probably what resulted in me scratching my head over those posts.)

The 2260 g came from the extract version of the recipe (top of page 165 of Jamil and John's book). What an idiot! I should, of course, used the all-grain option figure, that being, 3170 g, as you have correctly stated.

So sorry Trout and very well-spotted. Being an info site, I better go back to those posts and put some sort of red notice on them or, if possible correct them but not tonight as I fear it might take some time :roll:. It's a real credit to you though that you picked that error up. The last place we need any confusion is in this thread - lol!

I'm working from home tomorrow Trout so if anything else isn't clear, let me know as I may well have made other silly errors in this thread. I hope not but it is quite likely and good on you for taking the time to slow down and really analyse and question what you read. This will serve you very well.

:salute: Trout,
Pistol

* I will actually send pkearney a PM once I correct everything.
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Post #160 made 15 years ago
by 2trout
I hope I didnt get any one in a bind. Really, really thankfull for all the help from this site. :clap:

Ill be posting a Centennial Blonde recipe soon with my calculator run throughs. I think maybe Ive begun to grasp this with your help ;) .
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
    • BME Brewer With Over 5 Brews From United States of America

Post #161 made 15 years ago
by 2trout
Checking My Work.

Centennial Blond Ale by; BeirMuncher at HomeBrewTalk

Original recipe link http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/centenn ... all-42841/

****5 Gallon Batch****

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.57 gal
Estimated OG: 1.040 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 21.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount
7.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
0.75 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)
0.25 oz Centennial [9.50%] (55 min)
0.25 oz Centennial [9.50%] (35 min)
0.25 oz Cascade [7.80%] (20 min)
0.25 oz Cascade [7.80%] (5 min)
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) (Hydrated)


Mash at 150 degrees for 60 minutes.




I assumed that post boil volume was 5.5 gal, and that I would shoot for the same. I entered all into the calculator as stated in the recipe(after converting to metric of course). I used their brewhouse efficiency and estimated OG as written. Initial calculator work is below.

I then changed efficiency to 79% as suggested by the good folks here as I have no real personal data to follow. Final calculator work is below also. I will make any adjustments to AA% when I know what is available to me from my supplier.

This will be my first BIAB beer that was designed to be a BIAB.

Am I looking OK here?
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Last edited by 2trout on 24 Feb 2011, 01:07, edited 9 times in total.
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
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Post #162 made 15 years ago
by BrickBrewHaus
Hey trout, looks like you're getting the hang of this. From what I can see everything looks fine.

One question I have...You've given an evaporation rate of 8.07 lts/hr. That seems awfully high to me (mine is about 4.6 lts/hr). Is this an observed value on your system based on previous brews?

Post #163 made 15 years ago
by 2trout
Hello Brick!

My 8.07 l/hr is calculated by the calculator. The pot I use is 49cm across, its a big sucker! I borrow it from a friend who does crawfish boils with it :yum: . Before I brew this recipe, Ill do a test boil with water to get a better evap. rate.

Thanks for checking my work :salute: .
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
    • BME Brewer With Over 5 Brews From United States of America

Post #164 made 15 years ago
by BrickBrewHaus
Hmmm...I didn't know it did that calculation. I changed that figure when I first started using The Calculator, over-riding the formula in that cell, and I've always wondered why the kettle diameter cell was there because no other formulas call on that value :headhit:

Anyway, I would recommend doing a test run with water because that seems so high to me. Also, evaporation depends on factors other than diameter, although that is probably the biggest contributor.

I should ask, is this your first brew ever, extract included? Or just first brew with this kettle? Might be obvious, but you can use evap. rate for previous extract batches with this kettle. Just enter that value directly into Cell B14 and forget about the calculation.

If you find that your evap. rate is too high, I've read you can float a SS bowl or pie tin in your kettle to reduce the expose surface area. This should reduce your evap. rate considerably.

Post #165 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
2trout wrote:I hope I didnt get any one in a bind.
Not at all Trout! I still haven't fixed up that post with the error sorry. It's been over 35 C here in Perth for weeks so when I get home, at the moment, I can't seem to get my concentration levels to the level that recipe conversion often requires. It looks as though you are getting the hang of it all and that BrickBrewHaus is looking after you well. :salute: (See last para below.)
BrickBrewHaus wrote:One question I have...You've given an evaporation rate of 8.07 lts/hr. That seems awfully high to me...
I saw this and the subsequent posts BBH. LOL on overwriting the formula :lol:. This formula is used in The Calculator because kettle diameter is, as you say, the most significant factor in evaporation rate. The calculation used was derived by collecting figures from several brewers - both BIAB and traditional. I can't find the spreadsheet at the moment but it is on this computer somewhere :scratch:.

It's a very good formula to use for your first few brews, certainly much better than percentages. For example, if in my 70L pot (45cm diameter) whether I do a single or double batch, my evaporation rate is around 6.5 L per hour but the evaporation "rate" is about 9% for a double batch versus 18% for a single!

Trout's pot has an even wider diameter than mine so his evaporation rate (volume per hour) will be significantly higher than mine.

After a few brews you can overwrite the formula in The Calculator to match your measurements. You should only ever use percentages if you always brew the same batch size.

Your advice about floating a stainless steel bowl on the surface of Trout's wort to reduce the surface area is very good advice and something that Trout, with such a wide kettle, should seriously investigate.

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 24 Feb 2011, 19:40, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #166 made 15 years ago
by BrickBrewHaus
PistolPatch wrote:...certainly much better than percentages. For example, if in my 70L pot (45cm diameter) whether I do a single or double batch, my evaporation rate is around 6.5 L per hour but the evaporation "rate" is about 9% for a double batch versus 18% for a single!
I agree. I never understood why percentages are used, it's much more intuitive, to me, to use a volume/hour figure.
Last edited by BrickBrewHaus on 24 Feb 2011, 20:57, edited 9 times in total.

Post #167 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
I think the problem here Brick, is that home all-grain brewing copies many figures from commercial breweries which are simply not appropriate. Evaporation rate is a classic example.

Commercial kettles have chimneys/funnels and can therefore achieve a vigorous boil but extremely low evaporation rates. These used to be about 10% but I think (I'm pretty sure on this) are now down to 4% in some breweries. We cannot as home brewers achieve this and why would we want to?

There are way too many commercial standards/figures that are copied and pasted into the forum world and perpetuated with great authority and zero evidence. All this results in is confusion.

I think I am heading into a ramble now so will post the rest of my thoughts to this thread
:whistle:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 24 Feb 2011, 22:35, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #168 made 15 years ago
by 2trout
I love all this help, and will attempt to put in my two cents in the future.

Well, this is not my first brew. Ive done extract, some partial extract, and stumbled through two all grain kits done as BIAB but I lost my hydrometor so I have no idea what I really did. :blush: This will be my first all grain with an eye to reproducable results and and attempt to brew regularly.

I have never kept track of what I was doing, or even brewed often enough to get a feel for it. So I am going to be developing evap values etc. as I go forward.

As I mentioned this pot is BIG, but I do have a lid :smoke: . Are there drawbacks to a high evap rate? Should I conduct my boils with the lid partially on? I will do a test boil to establish an evap rate.
Last edited by 2trout on 25 Feb 2011, 11:23, edited 9 times in total.
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
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Post #169 made 15 years ago
by hashie
No do not boil with the lid partially on this is bad for the beer. The only way to make it work is to have the condensate going back into the kettle and this will give bad flavours in the final beer. having the lid so the condensate drips outside the kettle means your evap rate will remain the same.

A high evap rate is not bad per se, so long as you know what it is and then have an appropriate amount of water to begin with so as to end up at your desired volume.
Last edited by hashie on 25 Feb 2011, 12:02, edited 9 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #170 made 15 years ago
by stux
You can always add boiling water during the boil to compensate for too much evaporation
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #171 made 15 years ago
by de5m0mike
Hey guys, I just found your great site. I plan to do my first BIAB next weekend. Because it's my first, and I don't know what my efficiency will be, I've planned it as a partial mash so I can calculate the right amount of extract I need at the end to hit my target O.G.. I think I have my recipe and everything planned out pretty well the way I want it but I could use some help estimating my water volumes.

I have a standard 7 gallon turkey fryer set up. It's about 14.5 inches tall and has a 6 inch radius. I think the surface area is about 113 square inches" I usually start with 6 gallons when doing an extract brew/steeping grain recipe and finish after a 60 min boil with about 5 gallons. I don't really have any idea though how much water my grain (8.5 lb.) will soak up, how much will be lost to evaporation, or even how much I'll be able to fit in my pot once all that grain is in there. Plus I've read Rye Malt and Rice hulls tend to soak up even more so that complicates it even more for me. I was hoping someone with experience with BIAB could look at this and give me some advice. How much water should I start with? How much would I expect to loose in the mash? How much would I expect to have to add before the boil? Ideally I'd like to end up transferring about 5 gallons to the primary.

Here is my malt list.

4.50 lb. US 2-Row Malt
1.50 lb. US Rye Malt
0.75 lb. German CaraMunich II
0.75 lb. US Caramel 40L Malt
0.25 lb. US Carapils Malt
0.25 lb. US Caramel 120L Malt
0.25 lb. Belgian Aromatic Malt
0.25 lb. US Rice Hulls
2.00 lb. Extract - Light Dried Malt Extract

Thanks a ton.

Mike

Post #172 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
When I read, 'next weekend,' mike, I went :salute:

Give us a day or two and someone will get you sorted. It looks as though you have provided a lot of detailed information so good on you!

I also see that this is your first post so welcome to the forum! Maybe have a read of this thread and post there while you are waiting for a reply here and before the moderators notice you have slipped through their, 'fool-proof' net :lol:. More info here.

Seriously though, any reply we make here could well involve a spreadsheet and you won't be able to download it until you follow the instructions in the above link and become a 'Fully Registered Member'. It might be a bit annoying but I have never seen any spam on here so good on them!

Cheers,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 26 Feb 2011, 22:24, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #173 made 15 years ago
by de5m0mike
PistolPatch wrote:When I read, 'next weekend,' mike, I went :salute:

Give us a day or two and someone will get you sorted. It looks as though you have provided a lot of detailed information so good on you!

I also see that this is your first post so welcome to the forum! Maybe have a read of this thread and post there while you are waiting for a reply here and before the moderators notice you have slipped through their, 'fool-proof' net :lol:. More info here.

Seriously though, any reply we make here could well involve a spreadsheet and you won't be able to download it until you follow the instructions in the above link and become a 'Fully Registered Member'. It might be a bit annoying but I have never seen any spam on here so good on them!

Cheers,
PP
Yeah, I didn't slip through. I got a PM from a moderator already filling me in on all the rules of the forum. I'm just getting caught up on all of my reading and have posted in the "first post" thread.

Thanks for the help.
Last edited by de5m0mike on 27 Feb 2011, 10:57, edited 9 times in total.

Post #174 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
Hi again Mike. Good to see you got the rego stuff sorted :salute:. Let's have a look at your plan...

I will have to write this on the fly as I'm short on time. This means you are in for a long post ('stream of consciousness') because condensing posts takes 5 times longer than writing them.

First, I am going to talk in metric sorry as it is all I know and it is what The Calculator here uses. The Converter ADMIN NOTE: Unfortunately the edget being referred to here is no longer available. Please read this post for alternatives. here though works really well in every browser I think except Explorer :roll:. Google Chrome works well so download that if you need to...

You have done really well with providing information :peace:. In metric, the essential information is...

26.5 L kettle.
30.4 cm kettle diameter.
18.9 L into the fermenter is desired.

So, first problem I see is the pot isn't big enough, as you know. This means you will need a second pot as this won't be a pure BIAB (full-volume, no sparge brew).

Looking at your grain bill I see another problem...

The recipe has 907 g of Light Dried Malt Extract (LDME) so I am seeing two/three/four/five possibilities now. Explaining these possibilities would require a book so I think we need to stop and ask some questions...

1. The recipe itself is not an all-grain one as it is compromised due to the LDME. Why does the recipe have LDME in it? Why hasn't the 2 kg of two row been simply changed to 4 kg?

2. Do you really want to brew such a recipe for your first all-grain? I think rice hulls (probably unneccessaryy with BIAB anyway) and rye malt are not a great thing to have in any brewer's first all-grain brew. I'd be much happier Mike to see you brewing a few simpler but very tasty recipes first. This will mean that I and others will be able to advise you better. (As you'll see, no one else has jumped in yet with an easy answer :lol:)

3. Because you can't do a pure BIAB, I think that studying the Maxi-BIAB guide and also the Mini-BIAB Guide is a must. It will take some time to read them properly and absorb them.

My last sentence here is a key point.

I don't think anyone would be able to give you a quick answer on how to brew this recipe on a forum without that answer being full of holes so what I think would be best is if you delay the brew this weekend and instead, set aside that time to relax, have a beer and study the guides above. With the right mindset, this should be as enjoyable as brewing the beer - it's all an adventure! Treat this reading time as being like when you are unwrapping a present :yum:.

Then you can come back here and say, "Okay, this is my new plan!" I now want to do a partial or I want to Maxi-BIAB or I want to Mini-BIAB or I have decided to buy a bigger pot. You might even decide to change what style you want to brew first?

The fact that I have written such a long reply here means that I think your original question was excellent and that it showed a great deal of thinking on your part. It was very well-written. I am sorry that my answer means that you have to do even more thinking!

If you don't want to do some more thinking then change your recipe to one without rye, hulls or extract and we'll get you sorted a bit quicker. You should still read those guides though ;).

:peace:
PP

P.S. Sorry for total lack of edits. Can only hope the above makes some sense.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 28 Feb 2011, 20:55, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #175 made 15 years ago
by de5m0mike
PistolPatch,

Thanks a lot for taking the time to "try" to answer my question. Hopefully this will help.

1. True, the recipe is not all grain. This is for two reasons. 1: my pot is not big enough for all that grain and water. 2: This is my first attempt at BIAB and I don't know what my efficiencies will be or what to expect from the mash. My plan was to take a gravity reading after the mash, and if needed, adjust the amount of extract added to hit my target O.G.. In a way I'm just trying to take baby steps into all grain and I thought partial mash/BIAB would be a good next step.

2. Yes, I really want to brew this recipe, I've spent several weeks researching it and planning it out. Even talking to the brewer at my local brew pub (Founders) about it. I would also really like to enter it (assuming it turns out o.k.) in my first home brew contest which is coming up in about 7 weeks.

The reason for the Rye is because I'm in love with a beer called Foreign Spy Rye right now http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1199/65932 and because Rye, being a grain that must be mashed, seems fitting for my first mash. I kind of wanted to do a beer that I wouldn't have been able to do as an all extract brew.

I realize I could loose the rice hulls as I doubt there are any stuck sparges in BIAB.

3. I will do.

I suppose I'm not to concerned that this will not be a true BIAB. (I hope I'm allowed to say that here.) I am really just looking for the easiest way to move to all grain without buying a lot of extra equipment. Which means I don't really want to buy another pot right now. Maybe after I get a few under my belt though, I don't know. Right now though, I do have access to two turkey fryer set ups so if I can get by with that on this first brew I will be happy.

I guess I'm really just looking for advice on how much of my recipe can be grain and how much has to be extract. Ideally, as little extract as possible, but like I said, I'm not too concerned with that yet. I'm looking for that sweet spot with the water to grain ratio with my current set up. Am I better off using more water and less grain (thus needing more extract) or more grain and less water and possibly using no extract at all. I realize I could potentially use all grain (about 10 lb) and only 2 or 3 gallons of water and have it fit in my pot. Then after the mash I could just top it off with water.

If possible I would really prefer to brew this weekend. The homebrew contest is in 7 weeks and I have obligations the next two weekends that will prevent me from brewing.

Thanks again.
Mike
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