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Post #1451 made 12 years ago
by Homemade
Hi Lylo and PP,

Lylo I might move the Braumeister sparge question to another thread if thats ok with you.

PP, you are dead right that I am getting great information here, I am enjoying the answers to my questions as well as digging up past info.

Being new and keen to brew, I think it is not so much info overload that is the problem, as with other industries where advice is given to a DIY practitioner, its the conflicting info that compounds the problems. Possibly doubly compounded by people who think the traditional way is the only way and you end up with novices running around not knowing what to do when all you want is some decent advice.

I have read the sweet liquor shop threads, and I have had discussions with you and others about the merits of Maxi-BIAB in the past, the learnings from those are what started me thinking on this one after I had entered the receipe and realise it didnt work :argh:.

In essence I want to produce 50L VIF of high gravity sweet liquor in my single urn (Braumeister), in a single mash. 50L VIF is what the urn can produce but at what OG? Having looked at it again with these extra posts I think I know alot more now that I did then :lol:

If I am right, the limitations on water and grain 'volumes' in my urn, dictate that I cant do what I want unless I compromise.

Compromise options:
Lower OG expectations - probably best approach as I get benefits and ease of full BIAB - being a novice this will allow me to focus on the process and ingredients. :party:
Lower VIF - lest favourite option for me as it wont go round :nup:
Water added B4/During the boil - just doesn't seem to work, grain volume increases and mash volume is all over the place - not an option
Water added as a sparge - helps to reduce mash volume but does not reduce the grain volume - again not helping :shoot:

Therefore the BIABacus is giving me great info and I hope I'm beginning to understand.

Cheers

Post #1452 made 12 years ago
by jdean2002
I'm hoping to do my first mini BIAB this weekend. I wanted to see if someone could double check how I used the Biabacus and make sure I'm not missing something. I found a recipe for a 2.5g Chocolate Milk Stout I want to try. The recipe is below. I've also attached my biabacus file.

My kettle diameter is 28 cm. The two things that have kind of thrown me are what adjustments to make for the lactose since it's non fermentable and I'm getting a calculated fg of 1.019 but the recipe says it should be 1.024. I'm not sure if that is a big deal or not.

Any help is appreciated - Jason

Type: All-grain, Brew in a Bag
Size: 2.5 gal
Original Gravity: 1.063
Final Gravity: 1.024
Alcohol by Volume: 5.2%


Ingredients:

Malt:
6 lb Pale 2 row
.5 lb Chocolate Malt
.25 lb Roasted Barley
5 oz Crystal 80L
.5 lb Flaked Oats

.5 lb lactose sugar @ 10 min
2 oz cocoa powder @ 15 min
2 oz cocoa nibs
2.5 oz bourbon

Hops:
.25 oz Nugget @ 60 min
.5 oz Willamette @ 30 min

Yeast:
Safale US-05, 1 packet, no starter or re-hydration.

Recipe from http://www.loveandoliveoil.com/2013/03/ ... -beer.html
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Post #1453 made 12 years ago
by Rick
I can't help with the lactose, but you have your mash temperature at 306F ... my guess is you wanted 152F, and didn't see the C there. You have temps correct elsewhere, though .. so a minor oversight on your part.

Also, mashing at 152, and fermenting at 65 tells me you'll get much better attenuation than 70%.

My first BIAB was Safale US-05. I mashed at 149F, fermented at 66F .. and got 84% attenuation. Different recipe though, of course .. maybe there's some magic going on there in the ingredients which I do not see.

I did rehydrate though, so I have no idea if this would produce a different result either.
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Post #1454 made 12 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
jdean2002 wrote:I'm hoping to do my first mini BIAB this weekend. I wanted to see if someone could double check how I used the Biabacus and make sure I'm not missing something. I found a recipe for a 2.5g Chocolate Milk Stout I want to try. The recipe is below. I've also attached my biabacus file.

My kettle diameter is 28 cm. The two things that have kind of thrown me are what adjustments to make for the lactose since it's non fermentable and I'm getting a calculated fg of 1.019 but the recipe says it should be 1.024. I'm not sure if that is a big deal or not.

Any help is appreciated - Jason
Hey Jason, I googled milk sugar (lactose) and found it to have a 76.1% yield or 35 ppg, so I would recommend you removing those figures in Section Y and take the default of 35.49 ppg.

Also, if following this recipe, for a FG of 1.024, the attenuation on the BIABacus works out to 62% in Section H. I would try following the mashing temperature of 152F (or 153F). Every item in your recipe is a fermentable, there's no telling what the final gravity will be, but they are suggesting it to have some residual sugar and not too dry.

90 mins. boils are recommended, and if do this, start your hop additions as planned at 60 and 30 mins. Here's a good link that PP has posted several times why we should all be doing this; http://bavarianbrewerytech.com/news/boilhops.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Removing the second occurrence of the OG in Section C is also the proper way to display the file.

:peace:
MS
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 22 Oct 2013, 04:35, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1455 made 12 years ago
by mally
Jdean - I wouldn't worry too much about the lactose.
Your BIABacus is predicting 70% of that will ferment even though it won't (thus artifically lowering your F.G.). So it may be closer to the original.

However, as Rick said, it may be strange for US-05 to only get 70% attenuation?

Is this your first BIAB or first Mini-BIAB? If your first BIAB I wouldnt worry too much, there will be more important things to worry about.

:luck:
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #1456 made 12 years ago
by jdean2002
Thank you for the input. This will be my first AG batch period, so I know I shouldn't sweat the details too much. That being said I want to try to get as close as I can to my FG. Should I change the attenuation figures in biabacus or just leave it alone and see how the lactose affects my real numbers?

Also I wanted to boil for 90, but when I tried that the mash volume exceeded my kettle size. I probably need to invest in a bigger kettle. One step at a time I guess.

Post #1457 made 12 years ago
by mally
Changing the attenuation in the BIABacus is one way you could replicate the recipe/real effects. However, the problem with this is we don't really know accurately enough what your attenuation will be if there wasn't any lactose.
To be accurate; you would have to brew maybe 5 times exactly the same recipe & get an average attenuation figure. Then brew with lactose and see how it affected it.

I would honestly just brew it and see what happens. Apart from it being a potentially briliant beer, you may not even like it! :headhit:

If you want to 90 minute boil when close to your kettle limits, you can just add top up water either, by sparging, adding water before boil or even during the boil, have a look at section W. In case you were wondering, you gain headspace when you pull the grains. :thumbs:
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #1458 made 12 years ago
by alanem
Hi PP,
I have been reading and re-reading our discussions on getting a larger wort with 2 x19 litre kettles.

Firstly my target volume for the first try at this will be 15 litres, so as per the BIABacus I would need 19.64 litres of water for mashing so lets round that off to 20 Litres.

Let's start on item 1..... In kettle #1 I would add my grain bill to a 10 litre mash for 20 -25mins mashing at 66c, while that was mashing I would then put kettle #2 on the burner and bring up 10 litres of water to mash temp (66c).

After the 20-25 min mash in kettle #1 is complete I transfer the bag over to kettle #2 and mash there for say 70mins then wrap kettle up with blankets, towels, etc. to keep the temps stabilised at 66c, all the time remembering that I have the option of being able to recharge some heat under the second kettle when, and if needed, to keep temp stabilised and stirring occasionally.

Now pete items 3. and 4. is where it gets sort of tricky....You say to chill kettle #1 in the sink, and same with #2 after the boil.

I always use the "no chill" method when brewing as my shed isn't equipped with water etc. so I just chill down to 20-22c in the fermenting fridge then add yeast.... Pete is the water chilling step necessary?? Or is there some other unknown reason that deems it as necessary??

Also doing 2 x 90 min boils seems to be twice the cooking, twice the effort, and twice the Gas. (don't forget I'm a tight-arsed old aged pensioner).

My usual boil loss is 4.2ltrs on a 12ltr boil so it would probably be 5 litres for a 15 ltr wort, meaning that over all I would need 21 litres of pre-boil wort to allow for trub and evaporation for my 15 litres finished product, so lets say I start with a 16ltr boil (which is no big drama of a boil over if I keep an eye on it) and as I have one of those instant camping stoves with the gas cartridge maybe I could put the remaining 5 litres in a small kettle (namely the good ladys 10 ltr SS boiler) and boil that up at the same time and adding it to the main kettle when space provides. Does this make sense, will it work, and will it screw my figures up much?
Once again PP I will be guided by your knowledge and thanks for everything
Cheers
Al
PistolPatch wrote:On the brewing side, I was thinking abut your set-up and had another idea in case you wanted to brew larger batches. Here's what I was thinking...

1. Mash in your first 19 litre kettle for only 20-25 minutes. (Use half total water needed).

2. Pull the bag and put it into your second 19 litre kettle with the other half of your water. Let it mash for 65-70 minutes. (Maybe put it in the oven to keep it warm or just give it the occasional tickle up on your stove?)

3. While the 'second' mash is happening, boil your first kettle for 90 minutes. Chill in sink when done.

4. Boil your second kettle for 90 minutes and do your flavour and aroma additions to this kettle. Chill in sink when done.

This would only add 20-25 minutes to the brew day but would give you a lot more wort at the end of the day. If this is of interest, the only point worth having a look at (and it probably isn't even worth worrying about) is hop utilisation.

Anyway Al, get back to us when you are feeling better if you want to explore this method. Otherwise, if the smaller batch size is okay, we'll look forward to hearing how everything goes.

;)
PP
Last edited by alanem on 26 Oct 2013, 07:00, edited 6 times in total.
I used to spill more than I drink these days!

Post #1459 made 12 years ago
by jdean2002
So I completed my first BIAB using the Chocolate Oatmeal Stout recipe that a few of you were kind enough to look at. Hit a few snags along the way but feel like it was a good learning experience. The OG came out much higher than the 1.063 predicted, I ended up with 1.08. I added water to the fermenter to hit the target OG but ended up with over a gallon more in the fermenter than expected. My first thought was great more beer...but then I just started thinking I probably messed up my hops ratio and the beer won't have the correct bitterness. Would I have been better off leaving the OG alone or was adding the water the better option? Just want to know for next time.

Also after the mash I had a nice sweet liquor, but after the boil I noticed a pretty bitter aftertaste. I hoping that will mellow out. I was thinking maybe the bag I got from my LHBS was too porous and maybe I got too much grain in the boil leading to some tannin issues. I guess time will tell.

Looking forward to trying my next one...

Post #1460 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
jdean2002,

Hitting the right temperatures, amount of starting water and getting the boil vigor all correct will take a few brews to get you comfortable. Getting a constant rolling boil and judging the evaporation rate will be second nature soon. Personally (now) I would rather be short on wort than adding water back in but I have done it with no ill effects plenty of times in the past.

It's hard to screw up a beer with biab but I still manage to do it now and again! No problem with the beer. It's a perfect hobby. You may feel bad because you missed something in brewing but you will still be happy with the beer!
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Post #1461 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
jdean2002 wrote:So I completed my first BIAB using the Chocolate Oatmeal Stout recipe that a few of you were kind enough to look at.
jdean, I'll reply to you in my next post here ;).
alanem wrote:Hi PP,
I have been reading and re-reading our discussions on getting a larger wort with 2 x 19 litre kettles.
Great to hear back from you Al and glad to see you are feeling better ;).

All looks good in your plan and there is absolutely no need to follow my advice on chilling. No-chilling is fine. Half of my beer is now no-chilled.

As for being a tight-arsed pensioner :lol:, well you have to realise every litre will cost you in gas and grain. You can't make a billion litres of beer with one litre of gas and one kilo of grain. I know you know this ;).

The 2 x 90 minute boils are twice of everything but remember you are getting twice the amount of beer and you are saving 90 minutes because you have a mash going at the same time as you have a boil going. [EDIT: But, as I read on, I think that your aims might actually be served by what you have planned***. I'm not deleting anything here though in case I have your intentions wrong.]

The only way to get around the above is to either buy a bigger kettle (this will save time but not gas) or use more dilutions. More dilutions mean you will need to buy more grain and, depending on when you add the dilutions and the quality of water you add, this could seriously affect your quality of beer.

...

*** I'm just trying to get the last para of your post sorted but am not sure how well I am doing :think:. Firstly, if you have 4.2 L boil loss on a 12 L boil, you will still get a 4.2 L boil loss (on average) on a bigger or smaller brew. This was one of BIABrewer's early corrections of commercial software. Evaporation rate from a straight-sided vessel does not work on percentages of volume, it is more closely aligned to so many litres or gallons per hour. So, we can don't need to worry about that one ;).

As for the rest of the para, I think it makes sense if you only wanted to get 15 L of wort to ferment but I think my original plan had it so that you were able to get more than that - maybe even 23 L?

If you only need 15 L than I think your plan is great Al. 15 L of boiled wort could also be diluted up to 19 L of pitchable wort without any problem.

Hope the above makes some sense Al. Let me know if it doesn't,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 28 Oct 2013, 21:18, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1462 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
jdean2002 wrote:So I completed my first BIAB using the Chocolate Oatmeal Stout recipe that a few of you were kind enough to look at. Hit a few snags along the way...
I haven't been one of the ones looking after you here jdean but congratulations on your first BIAB.

Just quickly...

1. The BIABacus defaults aims at favouring you having to dilute with water rather than having to add sugars/extracts to achiever the gravity you need at pitching (original gravity). You having to dilute is a good sign but 1.063 versus 1.080 is a very high discrepancy. There could be many reasons for this...

2. The only point I'll make here is that any single measurement from a single brew cannot really tell us anything at all unless other figures are taken to confirm it. The more volume and (cooled) gravity measurements you take early in your career, the faster you will avoid big discrepancies.

3. Nice sweet liquor versus bitter aftertaste - Very good observation jdean :peace:. You are totally correct in your observation and your hopes. The hops you added during the boil created the bitterness. Fermentation strips a lot of that bitterness out of the wort.

...

I wish I could spend a bit more time on this but I don't have it atm*. I'm pretty sure though if you search my posts here in the last three weeks that contain the word, 'numbers', you'll get a good idea of what you should and shouldn't worry about.

;)
PP

* I won't have the time for a while either. It's easy for questions to get lost in this thread so PM the guys who have been helping you if you think they haven't seen your question.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 28 Oct 2013, 21:45, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1463 made 12 years ago
by alanem
As for being a tight-arsed pensioner :lol:, well you have to realise every litre will cost you in gas and grain. You can't make a billion litres of beer with one litre of gas and one kilo of grain. I know you know this ;).[/i][/color]

I sorta said that a bit tongue in cheek, for the amount I brew over the year the cost of gas is no big deal, getting a good beer as the end result is the prize I'm after. It just seemed to be a doubling up in a way which I wondered could it be abolished, but as you rightly said, more grain/water takes longer to boil anyway so not much saving at all

More dilutions mean you will need to buy more grain and, depending on when you add the dilutions and the quality of water you add, this could seriously affect your quality of beer.

PP, silly question I guess, but does that mean I need to add extra grain to the recipe to balance out the
fact I will be sparging in the second vessel, or, as my guess is, does this mean more grain if I wish to dilute a 15ltr wort into say 19ltrs?

if you have 4.2 L boil loss on a 12 L boil, you will still get a 4.2 L boil loss (on average) on a bigger or smaller brew. Evaporation rate from a straight-sided vessel does not work on percentages of volume, it is more closely aligned to so many litres or gallons per hour.

I didn't know that but when I think about it, it makes sense, thanks for that

Pete thank you for getting back to me, you've been a great help and I appreciate it mate,
Cheers
Al
Last edited by alanem on 29 Oct 2013, 05:38, edited 6 times in total.
I used to spill more than I drink these days!

Post #1464 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Al, have another read of the Sweet Liquor Shop posts as they might ansewr the dilution and sparging question.

Sweet Liquor Shop 1
Sweet Liquor Shop 2
Sweet Liquor Shop 3

The only time when it is really appropriate to sparge is when you are unable to full-volume mash and you are doing a very high gravity brew or are wishing to avoid a lot of dilution.

In your situation and certainly the scenario I envisaged, there is no sparging involved ;).
PP

PS Is there any reason why you only want 15L of pitchable wort? With two 19 L pots, you will be able to get 19 L of pitchable wort of average gravity with no sparging/mucking about.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 29 Oct 2013, 19:57, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1465 made 12 years ago
by mally
DUOTWR - see the attached BIABacus file for your recipe converted to the latest version of the "calculator" (now BIABACUS).
BIABacus PR1.3I - Raven Ale DUOTWR .xls
I cannot comment on the quality of the recipe, or how well it is based on the original, but I am sure it will make a nice session ale.
It looks like you have the equipment to brew this so why not have a go?

If you haven't seen the BIABacus before it can seem a little daunting compared to the calculator;
Just check the parameters are set correct - kettle height, grain colour values, AA% (are they both 5.3%), mash temp, and whether yo use trub management (hopsocks etc).

:luck:
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Last edited by mally on 29 Oct 2013, 21:17, edited 6 times in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #1466 made 12 years ago
by Duotwr
Mally

thanks for your help on this - I know the recipe can't be vouched for, but I'm happy to take a chance. I've downloaded your BIABacus calc - fortunately I like spreadsheets!

I've changed the AA% values for the hops I'll be using, and also changed the VAW to around 5 gallons (it was quoted as a 5 Gallon recipe but I'm not sure what the VAW represents exactly although it looks like it is the volume into fermenter plus some loss which I don't entirely understand).

I'm afraid I don't even know what trub management means - so I'm going to ignore that for the moment!

Anyway - I feel pretty gung-ho about just trying it out with the information that's in the BIABacus at the moment. Off to the brew shop this weekend, so I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again for the help.

Keith

Post #1467 made 12 years ago
by mally
That's the spirit!

Have a read of this, it's a work in progress beginners guide. Explains terminology etc. so will help with terms like VAW.

Trub management - do you use a hopsock to contain the hops during boil, or leave them to float loose? After the boil do you transfer off the trub into fermenter/no chill cube or dump the whole lot in? Just some things to consider.

If you re-post the BIABacus file after your alterations, myself or somebody else can take a quick peek before you get too far in.
Last edited by mally on 29 Oct 2013, 23:36, edited 6 times in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #1468 made 12 years ago
by Duotwr
Hi

I've tweaked the BIABacus a little, to try and match the length of brew from the recipe I'm using (although details are sparse). So I hope it's nearly there.

As far as the questions around trub management - I was considering either just putting the hops in loose and passing the wort through a sieve/strainer, or maybe using in a couple of hopbags which I can then take out after the boil. And as far as the hot/cold break materials is concerned, I was just planning to tip the whole lot into a fermenter!

One final question I'd take some advice on though. The recipe suggests a 90 minute boil. But from what I've read there are various schools of thought about 60 vs 90 minute boil - with some people suggesting that for this type of brew a 60 minute boil is probably sufficient. Is doing a 60 minute boil likely to make that much difference for a recipe like this?

Thanks

Keith
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Post #1469 made 12 years ago
by BobBrews
Duotwr,

A 60 minute boil can do the job in many cases. 90 Minutes is preferred by me for driving off DMS and takes the worry out of it. Lighter types of beer and lager especially benefit from the extra boiling by evaporating off the DMS precursors. Keep in mind extra boiling may darken a light beer? The extra time spent boiling gives me extra time to drink beer while waiting? This may not benefit the beer but it does me!
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Post #1470 made 12 years ago
by Duotwr
Thanks for the reply - I'd understood the longer boil was good for pilsner/lagers. I'm doing something darker than that so might shorten the boil. We'll see how I'm doing for time on the day!

Keith

Post #1471 made 12 years ago
by alanem
PistolPatch wrote:Al, have another read of the Sweet Liquor Shop posts as they might ansewr the dilution and sparging question.

Sweet Liquor Shop 1
Sweet Liquor Shop 2
Sweet Liquor Shop 3

The only time when it is really appropriate to sparge is when you are unable to full-volume mash and you are doing a very high gravity brew or are wishing to avoid a lot of dilution.

In your situation and certainly the scenario I envisaged, there is no sparging involved ;).
PP

PS Is there any reason why you only want 15L of pitchable wort? With two 19 L pots, you will be able to get 19 L of pitchable wort of average gravity with no sparging/mucking about.

PP we did start this tutorial off (post # 1396) with the idea of getting a 15 ltr DSGA brew out of my 19ltr pot, ( I was previously doing 10 - 12ltr brews and found it very time consuming for so little product in return,) you then kindly used the DSGA recipe in BIABacus and tweaked it to 15ltrs for me then gave me tutorials on how to use BIABacus

Since then I had got hold of another 19ltr pot and after reading up on "Sweet Liquor Shop," I somehow came up with the idea that with the 2 kettles I could maybe do a 23 ltr. brew one day, this would give me the versatility, and the capability of being able to brew anything from a 10ltr mini brew to a 23ltr full brew in my 2 x19 ltr kettles, and thanks to your help I think it is possible.

I am not a huge drinker these days ( I once used to spill more than I drink now :sad: ) so most times a 15 - 19ltr batch would be sufficient, but there will be times I will need a bigger brew and to have the capabilities would be great.
I hope this makes sense, although I'm even a bit confused now :think: but I must say I now understand and know a hell of a lot more than I did before we started :)
Al
Last edited by alanem on 31 Oct 2013, 01:37, edited 6 times in total.
I used to spill more than I drink these days!

Post #1472 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Sorry AL, I can see how I have confused you. I was actually thinking of a earlier suggestion I had made. I had forgotten about the one you quoted a few posts above. I don't usually miss stuff like that sorry. Now I can see why you mentioned sparging. Mind you, I see the second kettle more as completing the rest of the 90 minute mash rather than viewing it as a sparge. You could certainly view it as either though. Your view I think might work well for us actually in this scenario.

I think our next step on this is to put it into a BIABacus file pretending, initially at least, that we will be using one large capacity pot. I have to race but can you re-post any file we have already started work on or link me to a post that has one Al?

Doing this will end up giving us a simple procedure to follow. We're getting close to things becoming easy ;),

PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 31 Oct 2013, 08:58, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1473 made 12 years ago
by alanem
PistolPatch wrote:Sorry AL, I can see how I have confused you. I was actually thinking of a earlier suggestion I had made. I had forgotten about the one you quoted a few posts above. I don't usually miss stuff like that sorry. Now I can see why you mentioned sparging. Mind you, I see the second kettle more as completing the rest of the 90 minute mash rather than viewing it as a sparge. You could certainly view it as either though. Your view I think might work well for us actually in this scenario.

I think our next step on this is to put it into a BIABacus file pretending, initially at least, that we will be using one large capacity pot. I have to race but can you re-post any file we have already started work on or link me to a post that has one Al?

Doing this will end up giving us a simple procedure to follow. We're getting close to things becoming easy ;),

PP
Hi PP. Firstly you don't need apologise for anything, I understand there is a lot of people like myself who all have individual queries on different topics seeking your help which you supply with very detailed and helpful answers, so remembering individual cases wouldn't be all that easy.

I have uploaded the BIABacus file that I have been using with alterations to the grain temp to 13c and Changed the Strike Water Temp. Adjustment Factor to: 0.4

PP you mentioned getting another bag and doing 2 brews at once but as I only have the one spiral burner that is out, also I don't wish to use the dilution method of diluting into the FV as it apparently isn't a great option for a good beer.

I'm not sure if the earlier suggestion you referred to was this one, but it appeals to me as maybe the best option.

Quote:

1. Mash in your first 19 litre kettle for only 20-25 minutes. (Use half total water needed).

2. Pull the bag and put it into your second 19 litre kettle with the other half of your water. Let it mash for 65-70 minutes. (Maybe put it in the oven to keep it warm or just give it the occasional tickle up on your stove?)

3. While the 'second' mash is happening, boil your first kettle for 90 minutes. Chill in sink when done.

4. Boil your second kettle for 90 minutes and do your flavour and aroma additions to this kettle. Chill in sink when done.

This would only add 20-25 minutes to the brew day but would give you a lot more wort at the end of the day. If this is of interest, the only point worth having a look at (and it probably isn't even worth worrying about) is hop utilisation.

So would I just adjust my BIABacus from 15ltr to 19ltr and everything in BIABacus self adjusts and I continue on with that, or will there need to be other manual alterations?

It does appear to be pretty straight forward this way, and the 25 mins I have plenty of so that's no problem, it somehow seems the way to go.

PP Just one more tiny question.... I know this recipe is the good Dr. Smurto's but I'd like your thoughts on the hops, I will be doing a batch of this probably over the weekend but I haven't any Amarillo on hand.
I have Centennial, and I have Citra, would Centennial with some adjustments in BIABacus make much of a difference? Or should I hold off until I can find some Amarillo.

Once again thanks for everything PP, your help is priceless.

Cheers Al
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Last edited by alanem on 01 Nov 2013, 07:33, edited 6 times in total.
I used to spill more than I drink these days!

Post #1474 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
[EDIT: See 'The Plan' below. Al's BIABacus file above is compromised. It's easy to do unfortunately. Always save BIABacus files as .xls no matter what program you use.]

Al, thanks for your post above - appreciate that you understand that it does get a bit confusing sometimes. Also appreciate that the detail is of some use ;). I'll be short on time for the next week or more as I won't be home so if you get no detailed replies here from me, that will be why. (For most answers I do in this thread I use three computer screens so when stuck with a laptop, I am pretty helpless/hopeless.)

Okay...

The Scenario

The bit you quoted above was exactly the option I was thinking so we are on the same page there for sure. And thanks for uploading the file. This makes things so much easier :party:.

The File

Nice work Al :salute:. As Con the Greengrocer you will remember would say, "Looky, looky, looking."... Changes you mentioned in post above are obviously thought out so, great! I won't check grain and hop originals as from memory, these look correct.

The only "error" I can see is that some actuals are filled in already in Section L. This is hardly worth mentioning.

Oh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hold on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One big problem is that this file is unprotected. This can cause big problems as there are lots of cells on the sheet that contain complex formulas that can't be seen but are easily wiped out. A scroll down the white column between sections D and M will show just a few of these.

Solution: Always save the file as an .xls. Never use .ods.

So, this file might be compromised. This is one of the limitations of the BIABacus being in spreadhseet form.

The Hop Question

If you look at this recipe and compare it with NRB's All Amarillo Ale, you'll find that the basic premise behind the recipes is pretty much the same. I think use the Centennial for your bittering and save the Citra for flavour and aroma. You could use Citra all the way through but I think the last sentence is best advice.

Is there any penalty in substituting citra for amarillo? I don't think so. Citra is as great a hop (and very similiar) as amarillo from my point of view.

The Plan

Bugger! I just went to write this bit and all of the cells in your sheet are protected! I have added an edit at the start of this post. There is an instruction on the BIABacus first sheet in red that says the file must be saved as an .xls, but things like that are so easy to miss or forget :sad:.

This is a shame Al as you have filled the file in really well. The only solution to this is downloading a pure file again and typing in everything again. How annoying is that?

Can you do that and make sure you save it as an .xls file?

This is probably good in a way as it will give me time to think on how to explain the plan given your unique situation. I hadn't quite worked out yet how to convey the plan so I am glad of the reprieve. It's almost certainly going to take a while to write but I would like to give you an answer to "The Plan' before I lose my three screens on Sunday.

If you can re-write and re-post the file tomorrow that would be great.

Send all complaints about the BIABacus being in spreadsheet form to all the programmers you know!

:)
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 01 Nov 2013, 20:36, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #1475 made 12 years ago
by alanem
PistolPatch wrote:[EDIT: See 'The Plan' below. Al's BIABacus file above is compromised. It's easy to do unfortunately. Always save BIABacus files as .xls no matter what program you use.]

Al, thanks for your post above - appreciate that you understand that it does get a bit confusing sometimes. Also appreciate that the detail is of some use ;). I'll be short on time for the next week or more as I won't be home so if you get no detailed replies here from me, that will be why. (For most answers I do in this thread I use three computer screens so when stuck with a laptop, I am pretty helpless/hopeless.)

Okay...

The Scenario

The bit you quoted above was exactly the option I was thinking so we are on the same page there for sure. And thanks for uploading the file. This makes things so much easier :party:.

The File

Nice work Al :salute:. As Con the Greengrocer you will remember would say, "Looky, looky, looking."... Changes you mentioned in post above are obviously thought out so, great! I won't check grain and hop originals as from memory, these look correct.

The only "error" I can see is that some actuals are filled in already in Section L. This is hardly worth mentioning.

Oh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hold on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One big problem is that this file is unprotected. This can cause big problems as there are lots of cells on the sheet that contain complex formulas that can't be seen but are easily wiped out. A scroll down the white column between sections D and M will show just a few of these.

Solution: Always save the file as an .xls. Never use .ods.

So, this file might be compromised. This is one of the limitations of the BIABacus being in spreadhseet form.

The Hop Question

If you look at this recipe and compare it with NRB's All Amarillo Ale, you'll find that the basic premise behind the recipes is pretty much the same. I think use the Centennial for your bittering and save the Citra for flavour and aroma. You could use Citra all the way through but I think the last sentence is best advice.

Is there any penalty in substituting citra for amarillo? I don't think so. Citra is as great a hop (and very similiar) as amarillo from my point of view.

The Plan

Bugger! I just went to write this bit and all of the cells in your sheet are protected! I have added an edit at the start of this post. There is an instruction on the BIABacus first sheet in red that says the file must be saved as an .xls, but things like that are so easy to miss or forget :sad:.

This is a shame Al as you have filled the file in really well. The only solution to this is downloading a pure file again and typing in everything again. How annoying is that?

Can you do that and make sure you save it as an .xls file?

This is probably good in a way as it will give me time to think on how to explain the plan given your unique situation. I hadn't quite worked out yet how to convey the plan so I am glad of the reprieve. It's almost certainly going to take a while to write but I would like to give you an answer to "The Plan' before I lose my three screens on Sunday.

If you can re-write and re-post the file tomorrow that would be great.

Send all complaints about the BIABacus being in spreadsheet form to all the programmers you know!

:)
PP
I guess it's obvious I'm no computer guru and as I don't have MS Office (only an outdated by many years free trial version) and I can't make alterations to the XLS file without MS Office, so I instead made a copy of your XLS original and opened that with OO hence the ODF format.

PP The BIABacus file I have now attached is the original file (XLS) that you had laid out and sent to me first off, I had opened the file with my MSOffice trial version then saved it in Open Office as XLS .... I dunno how this will come out, in fact I haven't a bloody clue, but when saving it a pop up box did inform me that not everything would necessarily be saved, sadly it's the best I can do at the moment,
it has all the doings in it for 15 ltrs except the need to change the grain temp to 20c and Change the Strike Water Temp to 0.4 which you recommended.


PP I now have a big favour to ask :pray: Should it open up ok, and if it can be worked on, I wonder if perhaps you could fill out the missing bits for me and send it back to me so I could work on that as a template?
Should it not be satisfactory, or cant be worked on, don't stress about it, I will check the net over the next few days to see if there is a way to open/use XLS files without having MSOffice .

PP I have decided on 18ltr brews as my default brew as I feel that it would be a more comfortable brew to make as far as volumes in the kettle etc go for a start.

So the VIF will be 18ltr .... the base grain will be JW Pils plus the munich1/wheat malt/caramunich additions.... the hops to be as you suggest, Centennial (10.2 not 9.1) for bittering and Citra (11.9) for flavour/aroma instead of all up Amarillo.

Hope this works out ok, BIABacus is a great program and its just a shame it cant be used in other formats apart from XLS....maybe one day...
Cheers and thanks
Al
PS. Where can I download a pure file from?? I have looked and looked but cant seem to find it on site.
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Last edited by alanem on 02 Nov 2013, 08:23, edited 6 times in total.
I used to spill more than I drink these days!
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