We are on rain tank water which has a pH of around 5.6. I'm aware that the pH of mash is important and dependent on the type of grains being mashed. Classing our rain water as distilled water, as there would be no mineral content in it (that I'm aware of), what mineral adjustments would I need to make to the mash, if any?
I have brewed an extract kit (which has turned out fine) and did a partial mash to brew a smoked porter (OG 1.065 FG 1.018) which was just bottled yesterday. Now, I'm going to do my first BIAB, brewing an APA and want to look at the pH side of things with this brew, especially since it will be a full grain one.
I guess, I'm wondering if there is any likely or beneficial brewers salts that can be added, depending on the style? APA or Dark beer. Also, how would I work out the addition rate?
Any help in this area would be appreciated? Cheers in anticipation
Post #2 made 14 years ago
I've used rain water for many brews, I've also used well water and tap water. I don't make any adjustments to any brews and have found no discernible difference from 1 brew to the next.
I think the best bet is to get your process down pat, get to know your equipment and then, in the future, you can chose to do water adjustments if you feel it's needed.
I think the best bet is to get your process down pat, get to know your equipment and then, in the future, you can chose to do water adjustments if you feel it's needed.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #3 made 14 years ago
+1 for the above...
I worried about my water and have read loads on the subject which filled my head with farts and just confused me. I then decided to follow PP's advice and not to worry, as long as your water tastes fine it will make a decent brew.
Yeasty
I worried about my water and have read loads on the subject which filled my head with farts and just confused me. I then decided to follow PP's advice and not to worry, as long as your water tastes fine it will make a decent brew.
Yeasty
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
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- SVA Brewer With Over 50 Brews From Great Britain
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Post #4 made 14 years ago
Michaelvw,
When I travel to a brew club function (brew in a park?) I bring store bought water. We had a batch of bad beer because of a parks well water being awful and our beer was awful! Lesson learned. If you don't know the water source bring your own! However last winter we brewed beer on a frozen lake using the water from the lake! I brewed a British bitter but renamed it "Fish Pee". It was loved by all so who knows?
Take a look at the Fish Pee beer being brewed. It's long but you will get the idea!
http://youtu.be/RQgOa5u1fes 2012
http://youtu.be/9ZEgAXW6U3w 2011
When I travel to a brew club function (brew in a park?) I bring store bought water. We had a batch of bad beer because of a parks well water being awful and our beer was awful! Lesson learned. If you don't know the water source bring your own! However last winter we brewed beer on a frozen lake using the water from the lake! I brewed a British bitter but renamed it "Fish Pee". It was loved by all so who knows?
Take a look at the Fish Pee beer being brewed. It's long but you will get the idea!
http://youtu.be/RQgOa5u1fes 2012
http://youtu.be/9ZEgAXW6U3w 2011
Last edited by BobBrews on 29 May 2011, 20:29, edited 11 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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Post #5 made 14 years ago
Bob,
I LOVE that video!
I LOVE that video!
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
Bobbrews
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- BME Brewer With Over 5 Brews From United States of America
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Post #6 made 14 years ago
A great resource is the free spreadsheet "EZwater calculator"
http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/
If using rain / distilled water it's a breeze. It takes into account the grains you are using and what style you are after (malty, hoppy).
Your main salt additions would be Calcium Chloride (malty) or Sulphates (Calcium Sulphate, Magnesium Sulphate - more hoppy).
You can play with the figures and get into the ballpark you are looking for.
The important thing is the Calcium, the rest are a bit optional as the malt will provide most of the Magnesium for example. The other thing is the Chloride / Sulphate ratio. More Chloride for a malt driven beer, more Sulphate for a hop driven as with Burton on Trent water. EZ water will calculate all that and give you the results.
I'd also recommend using a spoonful of the complete yeast nutrient to provide zinc, molybdenum, unobtanium and other trace elements that won't be in rain water. I use RO water and view it as equivalent to rain water.
You can download the metric or the pounds/feet/groats/fathoms version
http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/
Your main salt additions would be Calcium Chloride (malty) or Sulphates (Calcium Sulphate, Magnesium Sulphate - more hoppy).
You can play with the figures and get into the ballpark you are looking for.
The important thing is the Calcium, the rest are a bit optional as the malt will provide most of the Magnesium for example. The other thing is the Chloride / Sulphate ratio. More Chloride for a malt driven beer, more Sulphate for a hop driven as with Burton on Trent water. EZ water will calculate all that and give you the results.
I'd also recommend using a spoonful of the complete yeast nutrient to provide zinc, molybdenum, unobtanium and other trace elements that won't be in rain water. I use RO water and view it as equivalent to rain water.
You can download the metric or the pounds/feet/groats/fathoms version
Last edited by Beachbum on 30 May 2011, 09:09, edited 10 times in total.
Post #7 made 14 years ago
Hi Beachbum, just had a look at the spreadsheet, which is awesome. I wonder how this would work out with a BIAB method though as it mentions that is not very accurate when the mash thickness is more than 2.4qt/lb. I guess using a BIAB method complicates things a bit as it doesn't use a standard mash. I wonder if the pH will be significantly different too as there is a larger water to grain ratio. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Post #8 made 14 years ago
Fair point. EZ water obviously calculates on the basis that you do a fairly thick mash by BIAB standards and add your salts to the mash (where they dissolve easier due to the pH provided by the grains) and then sparge with your un-salted water.
I've tried to get my head round it and reckon that with distilled or rain water, it probably doesn't make a huge difference as long as you are getting enough calcium into the mix.
This water chemistry really does seem to make a difference. I made a Burton Style ESB for a competition coming up in July, burtonised the water to buggery but unfortunately couldn't revive my sample of yeast that I was going to use, and ended up using a Yorkshire Ale yeast that loves Malt Accented beers where I would normally put in a heap of Calcium Chloride. It's turned out fairly disappointing - a bit "rough around the edges" - and I'm going to rebrew using a different Chloride to Sulphate ratio and do it as a Yorkshire Style.
I've tried to get my head round it and reckon that with distilled or rain water, it probably doesn't make a huge difference as long as you are getting enough calcium into the mix.
This water chemistry really does seem to make a difference. I made a Burton Style ESB for a competition coming up in July, burtonised the water to buggery but unfortunately couldn't revive my sample of yeast that I was going to use, and ended up using a Yorkshire Ale yeast that loves Malt Accented beers where I would normally put in a heap of Calcium Chloride. It's turned out fairly disappointing - a bit "rough around the edges" - and I'm going to rebrew using a different Chloride to Sulphate ratio and do it as a Yorkshire Style.
Post #9 made 14 years ago
Hmmm, so would you say, as long as your mineral additions are similar to water profile of the region that you're cloning along with the 'style' of beer your brewing, it should be ok. I like how the spreadsheet gives a starting point to begin to look at the mineral composition/ balance. Can't wait to do my APA... will at least add the Calcium Sulphate to boost the calcium component and hopefully brighten the hops...
My last brew was a mini mash smoked porter which had about 2kg of grains but 3kg of DME and so I figure the DME would've had a mineral component as the mouth feel is quite full and malty.
My last brew was a mini mash smoked porter which had about 2kg of grains but 3kg of DME and so I figure the DME would've had a mineral component as the mouth feel is quite full and malty.
What situations do you add Calcium Chloride versus Calcium Sulphate?Beachbum wrote:Yorkshire Ale yeast that loves Malt Accented beers where I would normally put in a heap of Calcium Chloride.
Last edited by Michaelvw on 31 May 2011, 12:07, edited 10 times in total.
Post #10 made 14 years ago
Duh, just re-read previous post and you answered that question...
Thanks for your brilliant input... good luck with the yorkshire style brew. Would like to do an ESB after this APA...Beachbum wrote:Your main salt additions would be Calcium Chloride (malty) or Sulphates (Calcium Sulphate, Magnesium Sulphate - more hoppy).
Last edited by Michaelvw on 31 May 2011, 12:39, edited 10 times in total.
Post #11 made 14 years ago
I'd use Calcium Chloride in malty ales such as Yorkshire Bitters and Irish Reds, and even in such beasts as Munich Helles and Vienna Lager. However I go the Sulphate for Hoppy Beers like German Pils, Australian Sparkling Ale of the Coopers style and Southern English Pale Bitters where I really want the East Kent Goldings etc. to shine. I usually put in a quarter teaspoon of Magnesium Sulphate into everything just as an insurance policy.
I was wondering if it's possible to use Magnesium Chloride in brewing but nobody on the forums seems to have ever considered it. It isn't poisonous and is used in a couple of food processes I believe.
I was wondering if it's possible to use Magnesium Chloride in brewing but nobody on the forums seems to have ever considered it. It isn't poisonous and is used in a couple of food processes I believe.
Last edited by Beachbum on 31 May 2011, 12:40, edited 10 times in total.
Post #12 made 14 years ago
I read that Magnesium Chloride is expensive $60-$90US 500gm). This thread may answer some of your questions re the Magnesium Chloride... maybe not, but is interesting read anyway. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/uncommo ... lts-96303/
I think magnesium is such a small component in brewing water anyway. Brewers seemed to be more concerned with the Calcium???
I think magnesium is such a small component in brewing water anyway. Brewers seemed to be more concerned with the Calcium???
Post #13 made 14 years ago
We are quite a way from the road & no trees around too. So, should be pretty clean, except now, we have volcano ash now coming across from Chile. The water pH is 7.28. I'll probably use Beersmith to adjust the water minerals with.
