Calculations - What's the big deal ?
First up, I should say that I am now an exclusive BIAB/Electric Urn brewer because the simplicity cannot be beaten. Have done about 20 brews using BIAB (50+ more brews before BIAB), and hit the same efficiency figures time and time again. The disclaimer should be that I only ever design a brew to fall between 4 % & 6%. Attempts at a big beer have not, and will not be done strictly as BIAB, on the rare occasion that I want to do something huge, I will either go for 3V or more than likely add LDME or a can of something tasty for extra dimension.
All the calculations & considerations on amount of water to use, determining boil-off, etc that are discussed often.. to me I don't see what all the stress is about. Can anyone pont out if I'm missing some valuable knowledge that makes other people calculate the strike water volume each and every time they brew?
In reverse order of my process considerations:
* I need 26 L post-boil, to fill my cube.
* I know that my boil off between first hop addition and flame out is a 2 L loss
* Therefore i do my first addition at 28 L, and follow on with whatever hop schedule the recipe calls for.
And that's it ! If I'm slightly low I'll add some boiling water from the (kitchen) kettle, and if I'm slightly high I will boil for longer before the first addition. Consistently getting 73-75% efficiency at the end, double checked with cooled samples in the hydro and the refractometer.
Post #2 made 14 years ago
I like your post Ted and I think you have put it in exactly the right forum 
.
I suspect though, if anyone is like me, they will need to go through a period of time where they want to understand and make sense of everything. A lot of this is due to the internet where brewers have access to masses of information but this information is often poorly structured or classified.
I remember starting out in AG (using three vessels), asking questions and getting answers that seemed to make no sense or be totally contradictory. This lowers your confidence level and makes you think you know nothing but in hindsight, I can now see, that such and such a poster was a fly-sparger and so and so was a batch-sparger. Their answers were both right but they should have posted what brewing method they used. Concise answers are often superb/brilliant but more often than not just lead to more head scratching.
I think learning the logic of calculations is a very good way to help new brewers understand the brewing process, to get it comfortably sitting in their minds. The other side of this coin is that new brewers will often hold figures up to be brewing 'gods.' I did it and I'm sure I'm not alone.
So I suppose for every post I write on calculations, you'll see another one that says to not give too much respect to figures (or even folklore.) If new all-grain brewers are anything like me, they'll take a bit of time to get the balance right though.
Very little in the home-brewing world relies on comprehensive taste tests or side by side brewing. Most is all anecdotal and the conclusions are sometimes even quite wrong. These become perpetuated over the internet and can quickly become folklore.
All I know is that if you have a nice recipe to work from, it is hard to make a bad beer. Even if it's too sweet or dry, bitter or bland, someone else will still think it is great.
I am certainly very wary of anyone who says a one degree difference in mash temp or 10% more hops or 10% less grain will severely affect the end result of a recipe. Maybe these guys can taste a severe difference? Maybe we all have different palates and so some aspects of brewing are more critical than others? (There is one fault/flavour in beers that I find totally offensive but 90% of brewers, including judges, will not identify. They however will spot other things I have no idea of such as DMS
)
I like seeing new brewers start off with safe boundaries and calculations give them this. What I would prefer to see is more experienced brewers saying more often, "Don't obsess over calculations. Instead, obsess over your mashing thermometer."
Should be more threads like yours Ted and next time I do a recipe conversion in the new members section I think I'll put a link in to this thread.
PP
.
Experienced brewers know that they can make a pretty major error and still get quite an excellent beer so, I think, there is no big deal in calculations.Silo Ted wrote:Calculations - What's the big deal?
I suspect though, if anyone is like me, they will need to go through a period of time where they want to understand and make sense of everything. A lot of this is due to the internet where brewers have access to masses of information but this information is often poorly structured or classified.
I remember starting out in AG (using three vessels), asking questions and getting answers that seemed to make no sense or be totally contradictory. This lowers your confidence level and makes you think you know nothing but in hindsight, I can now see, that such and such a poster was a fly-sparger and so and so was a batch-sparger. Their answers were both right but they should have posted what brewing method they used. Concise answers are often superb/brilliant but more often than not just lead to more head scratching.
I think learning the logic of calculations is a very good way to help new brewers understand the brewing process, to get it comfortably sitting in their minds. The other side of this coin is that new brewers will often hold figures up to be brewing 'gods.' I did it and I'm sure I'm not alone.
So I suppose for every post I write on calculations, you'll see another one that says to not give too much respect to figures (or even folklore.) If new all-grain brewers are anything like me, they'll take a bit of time to get the balance right though.
Very little in the home-brewing world relies on comprehensive taste tests or side by side brewing. Most is all anecdotal and the conclusions are sometimes even quite wrong. These become perpetuated over the internet and can quickly become folklore.
All I know is that if you have a nice recipe to work from, it is hard to make a bad beer. Even if it's too sweet or dry, bitter or bland, someone else will still think it is great.
I am certainly very wary of anyone who says a one degree difference in mash temp or 10% more hops or 10% less grain will severely affect the end result of a recipe. Maybe these guys can taste a severe difference? Maybe we all have different palates and so some aspects of brewing are more critical than others? (There is one fault/flavour in beers that I find totally offensive but 90% of brewers, including judges, will not identify. They however will spot other things I have no idea of such as DMS
)I like seeing new brewers start off with safe boundaries and calculations give them this. What I would prefer to see is more experienced brewers saying more often, "Don't obsess over calculations. Instead, obsess over your mashing thermometer."
Should be more threads like yours Ted and next time I do a recipe conversion in the new members section I think I'll put a link in to this thread.
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 26 Feb 2011, 18:57, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #3 made 14 years ago
One thing to realise, is you've done 20 BIABs, and now you have a good idea of your volumes at various stages...
You want 26L, so you can fill 24L into a cube, for 23L after its cooled, you probably have 2L of trub, you lose 2L per hour... so when start of boil is probably 28-30L, and you start you 60 mins when you get to 28L... perfect.
It took you quite a few brews to home in on these figures, and they make perfect sense.
This is how most people should brew
Except they vary their volumes based on grain and alcohol levels.
A good calculator will give the new brewer a rough estimate of these numbers, and that gives a new brewer something to work with.
Eventually, they can drop the crutch of the calculator, and free-brew
But the calculations are a useful tool
You want 26L, so you can fill 24L into a cube, for 23L after its cooled, you probably have 2L of trub, you lose 2L per hour... so when start of boil is probably 28-30L, and you start you 60 mins when you get to 28L... perfect.
It took you quite a few brews to home in on these figures, and they make perfect sense.
This is how most people should brew
Except they vary their volumes based on grain and alcohol levels.
A good calculator will give the new brewer a rough estimate of these numbers, and that gives a new brewer something to work with.
Eventually, they can drop the crutch of the calculator, and free-brew
But the calculations are a useful tool
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #4 made 14 years ago
Only took the first two to figure it out. But to be fair to new people, I had in mind exactly what I wanted to determine, and that was the pre-hopping volume, zero-minute volume, and the evaporation losses between the two. Don't want to sound like I'm dumbing it down, but all other calculations are vastly less important. Too much initial strike volume and you boil down for a bit longer. Too little and you add more water.stux wrote:One thing to realise, is you've done 20 BIABs, and now you have a good idea of your volumes at various stages...
Too right. In this age of instant information, often the new brewer is bombarded with so much information to consider from the well intended helpful old hands, that the idea of a maiden voyage is daunting. The assumed bible that often gets referenced as essential reading doesn't help so much as hinder. For example how many award winning beers have been brewed with pH adjustments in mind, as Palmer swears by? How many people pitch 20 vials (slight exaggeration) of yeast as Jamil insists on?PistolPatch wrote:Very little in the home-brewing world relies on comprehensive taste tests or side by side brewing. Most is all anecdotal and the conclusions are sometimes even quite wrong. These become perpetuated over the internet and can quickly become folklore.
Slight variations on the basics won't make a significant difference to the end result, when you consider that there are less controllable aspects we cannot measure. Age of the grain, or how long its been cracked for, if not milling at home....whats the expected enzyme conversion of the grain sourced from the store, chances are its no longer to the original specs sheet. Same with the hops. If youre buying out of season, there's no true way of knowing what sort of AA or aromatic deterioration has taken place. Lets say a brewer goes and buys some EKG tomorrow, and it's a stated 6%AA. Does he do research on the harvest month to determine that he's just purchased 11 month old pellets, and do a rough, inconclusive guesswork calculation on that?
We can spend hours refining our calculations on all manner of aspects every time we brew, but for a new brewer all this data often isn't helpful at all.
The mantra we should be telling people is regarding consistency through observation. Did a great beer that you loved? Then it makes sense to follow the exact same steps again. If your efficiency is the same, then the only slight variation will be due to the quality and age of ingredients, so its largely in the hands of the gods.
Last edited by Silo Ted on 27 Feb 2011, 00:03, edited 5 times in total.
Post #5 made 14 years ago
Great post, Wish I read this a year and halve ago, might not have sat on my hand worrying too much 
All good after first brew day and were away
Mex
All good after first brew day and were away
Mex
Post #6 made 14 years ago
I'm in the same boat as Ted.
I know I need 26-27 litres post boil to fill my cube.
I know I need 37 litres starting volume to allow for absorption to grain and evaporation to boil.
All my beers are made with 4.5 - 5kg of grain. So I measure the water into the pot, measure again post boil, then take a gravity reading after the wort has chilled.
Not a lot of science, but I still get beer at the end of the process.
I know I need 26-27 litres post boil to fill my cube.
I know I need 37 litres starting volume to allow for absorption to grain and evaporation to boil.
All my beers are made with 4.5 - 5kg of grain. So I measure the water into the pot, measure again post boil, then take a gravity reading after the wort has chilled.
Not a lot of science, but I still get beer at the end of the process.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #8 made 14 years ago
See, I spend easily 90% of my time fretting over a recipe. I think that is more important.
I do a quick calculation on grain absorption to find out how much water I need for the mash. I think as long as you pay attention to your OG and have an accurate thermometer you'll be fine. I had a few bad batches in a row because of a faulty thermometer (13F too high) and then a hydrometer issue as well. I got over that thankfully!
This past weekend I brewed an RIS and had pretty subpar efficiency and was off of my pre-boil OG a bit, but I just boiled for a bit longer and all was well. I had actually planned the recipe for 6 gallons just in case. I boiled off a bit longer and hit 1.090 instead of my planned 1.092 and then still had enough to pack my winpack up to the top.
Also: I freakin' love my refractometer. I tested it a few times against the hydrometer during mash and start of boil (cooling the samples) and once it was accurate, I was pulling accurate refract samples and testing within a minute or so.
I do a quick calculation on grain absorption to find out how much water I need for the mash. I think as long as you pay attention to your OG and have an accurate thermometer you'll be fine. I had a few bad batches in a row because of a faulty thermometer (13F too high) and then a hydrometer issue as well. I got over that thankfully!
This past weekend I brewed an RIS and had pretty subpar efficiency and was off of my pre-boil OG a bit, but I just boiled for a bit longer and all was well. I had actually planned the recipe for 6 gallons just in case. I boiled off a bit longer and hit 1.090 instead of my planned 1.092 and then still had enough to pack my winpack up to the top.
Also: I freakin' love my refractometer. I tested it a few times against the hydrometer during mash and start of boil (cooling the samples) and once it was accurate, I was pulling accurate refract samples and testing within a minute or so.
Post #9 made 14 years ago
I have enjoyed reading this post and thank Ted for his initial post,and find it hard to disagree with what he says, however, brewing to me is a hobby with a fantastic reward at the end.Silo Ted wrote:Calculations - What's the big deal ?
First up, I should say that I am now an exclusive BIAB/Electric Urn brewer because the simplicity cannot be beaten. Have done about 20 brews using BIAB (50+ more brews before BIAB), and hit the same efficiency figures time and time again. The disclaimer should be that I only ever design a brew to fall between 4 % & 6%. Attempts at a big beer have not, and will not be done strictly as BIAB, on the rare occasion that I want to do something huge, I will either go for 3V or more than likely add LDME or a can of something tasty for extra dimension.
All the calculations & considerations on amount of water to use, determining boil-off, etc that are discussed often.. to me I don't see what all the stress is about. Can anyone pont out if I'm missing some valuable knowledge that makes other people calculate the strike water volume each and every time they brew?
In reverse order of my process considerations:
* I need 26 L post-boil, to fill my cube.
* I know that my boil off between first hop addition and flame out is a 2 L loss
* Therefore i do my first addition at 28 L, and follow on with whatever hop schedule the recipe calls for.
And that's it ! If I'm slightly low I'll add some boiling water from the (kitchen) kettle, and if I'm slightly high I will boil for longer before the first addition. Consistently getting 73-75% efficiency at the end, double checked with cooled samples in the hydro and the refractometer.
The pleasure that I get is from doing the calculations and working to a recipe to see if I can match it.
My mission statement - only to myself - is to brew beer to a recipe and achieve the OG and FG in the required volume.
I am using Graham Wheelers book - Brew your own British Real Ale, as my recipe database.
The reason for choosing this is, I believe that Graham is well respected for his knowledge and has produced these recipies himself and secondly that I have drunk many of the beers when I lived in England and thirdly because the book covers recipies over a wide range of gravities.
I have been brewing for about 15 months starting with kit & kilo,I brewed slome nice beers but all had the beer kit taste, I moved on to using LME and DME plus particals and my choice of hops,all went great until I started to read various forums suggesting that the real b rewing was only achievable using all grain. I made the necessary puchases of HLT,Mash tun,Grain Mill,plus a miriad of thermometers,and other miscelaneous gagets.
My intial foray into all grain was with the mash tun,I don't think that at the time I fully understood what I was supposed to do but it all seemed easy on paper - bought Palmer's How to Brew, just to complicate things. The first brews, I got most things wrong but the resulting beer was the best that I had made,tasted fantastic in comparison to K&K,the bug had bitten !
The next influence was reading about BIAB, could not be easier, I still got everything wrong,but the beer tasted great. I am convinced that BIAB is the way for me and I am endeavouring to get things right.
I have made a new start and am calibrating all my equipment and vessels,weighing water has been the most revealing error of my measuring jugs and cubes,all fermenters in use at the moment but they are next.
The efficiencies that I have been getting are nowhere near to what they should be, I have started to mill with a finer crush and as a trial I am using a recipe from British Real Ale called "Batham's Best Bitter", the reason for this is that I am trying to work with the least number of variables,this recipy only uses Pale Malt so I should be able to get a handle on the efficiency versus the planned efficiency,I think that this is import - not from the beer quality - but from the fact that if I chose to brew a beer with an OG of 1031 (Hook Norton Hooky Dark) with my under efficent system I would probably get just water.
I will keep going until I have mastered the technique and with the help of too many people to mention
I will achieve my mission statement.
Last edited by nala on 22 Mar 2011, 11:39, edited 5 times in total.
Post #10 made 14 years ago
Great second post nala
I love this thread - all the posts are great. It also shows just how hard it can be for a new all-grain brewer to make sense of a lot of the advice thrown around on the net.
Occasionally I look at other forums and get pretty horrified. Saw a thread yesterday that said, "The pioneers of BIAB say you should not squeeze the bag as this will cause tannins."
I can't think of one BIAB pioneeer that ever said this and I can think of many who have refuted this myth.
BIAB is very simple but if a new brewer wasn't reading the right stuff, I can't believe how quickly they would get overwhelmed in contradictions. Telling a new brewer to read Palmer is also pretty unhelpful advice. It is far too technical.
But, even if you have been given the right advice, you should never trust the calcs on a single brew. The HBDPalexperiment proves just how wild figures on a single batch can be. Basically, this experiment gave 40 brewers exactly the same ingredients 'delivered' to their door, a recipe and instructions. The results can be found in this table.
Brewing calculations are definitely great tools but they also, definitely, are not gods.
Cheers,
PP
I love this thread - all the posts are great. It also shows just how hard it can be for a new all-grain brewer to make sense of a lot of the advice thrown around on the net.
Occasionally I look at other forums and get pretty horrified. Saw a thread yesterday that said, "The pioneers of BIAB say you should not squeeze the bag as this will cause tannins."
I can't think of one BIAB pioneeer that ever said this and I can think of many who have refuted this myth.BIAB is very simple but if a new brewer wasn't reading the right stuff, I can't believe how quickly they would get overwhelmed in contradictions. Telling a new brewer to read Palmer is also pretty unhelpful advice. It is far too technical.
But, even if you have been given the right advice, you should never trust the calcs on a single brew. The HBDPalexperiment proves just how wild figures on a single batch can be. Basically, this experiment gave 40 brewers exactly the same ingredients 'delivered' to their door, a recipe and instructions. The results can be found in this table.
Brewing calculations are definitely great tools but they also, definitely, are not gods.
Cheers,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 22 Mar 2011, 21:24, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #11 made 14 years ago
I normally decide I'm going to do a brew, then look at my ingredients and then make up the recipe on the day. Fretting is not a part of my system. I don't calculate anything, but am slowly getting to know my equipment and know what I need to do to get 55l of wort out at the end. It really isn't rocket science. That said, my last beer, pilsener, I had to test and treat my water to get the soft profile needed, still not rocket science even if it is a little intimidating at first glance.
http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.
Post #12 made 14 years ago
I wonder if this thread shouln't be moved to the BIAB for new members forum.I am new to AG and have been quite daunted by the calculations involved,I found this thread by sneaking my noob ass into the "Old Hands" forum.I breathed a huge sigh of relief reading this and it may help others getting started to reaffirm the RDWHAHB mantra.
AWOL
Post #13 made 14 years ago
ADMIN NOTE: This topic has been moved from the "Old Hands" forum as per the request of Lylo above.
Last edited by Pat on 26 Apr 2011, 22:09, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #14 made 14 years ago
Silo Ted wrote:Only took the first two to figure it out. But to be fair to new people, I had in mind exactly what I wanted to determine, and that was the pre-hopping volume, zero-minute volume, and the evaporation losses between the two. Don't want to sound like I'm dumbing it down, but all other calculations are vastly less important. Too much initial strike volume and you boil down for a bit longer. Too little and you add more water.stux wrote:One thing to realise, is you've done 20 BIABs, and now you have a good idea of your volumes at various stages...
Thanks for posting this in the newbie section. After fretting over calculations for my first BIAB, I think your post has pointed in the right direction as to what the critical numbers in terms of volume by, in essence, by working backwards. Now, as long as I don't screw up the metric conversions (I am in the U.S.), I should be much better off.
MODNOTE: this post has been edited to include the quote box to make it easier for members to read and reference.
Last edited by icemaker on 07 May 2011, 04:38, edited 5 times in total.
Post #15 made 14 years ago
Just thought I'd bump this up for the new guy's.
It's a must read for any new AG brewer.
It's a must read for any new AG brewer.
AWOL
Post #16 made 14 years ago
I thought that I might update you as to where I am on my venture into BIAB.nala wrote:I have enjoyed reading this post and thank Ted for his initial post,and find it hard to disagree with what he says, however, brewing to me is a hobby with a fantastic reward at the end.Silo Ted wrote:Calculations - What's the big deal ?
First up, I should say that I am now an exclusive BIAB/Electric Urn brewer because the simplicity cannot be beaten. Have done about 20 brews using BIAB (50+ more brews before BIAB), and hit the same efficiency figures time and time again. The disclaimer should be that I only ever design a brew to fall between 4 % & 6%. Attempts at a big beer have not, and will not be done strictly as BIAB, on the rare occasion that I want to do something huge, I will either go for 3V or more than likely add LDME or a can of something tasty for extra dimension.
All the calculations & considerations on amount of water to use, determining boil-off, etc that are discussed often.. to me I don't see what all the stress is about. Can anyone pont out if I'm missing some valuable knowledge that makes other people calculate the strike water volume each and every time they brew?
In reverse order of my process considerations:
* I need 26 L post-boil, to fill my cube.
* I know that my boil off between first hop addition and flame out is a 2 L loss
* Therefore i do my first addition at 28 L, and follow on with whatever hop schedule the recipe calls for.
And that's it ! If I'm slightly low I'll add some boiling water from the (kitchen) kettle, and if I'm slightly high I will boil for longer before the first addition. Consistently getting 73-75% efficiency at the end, double checked with cooled samples in the hydro and the refractometer.
The pleasure that I get is from doing the calculations and working to a recipe to see if I can match it.
My mission statement - only to myself - is to brew beer to a recipe and achieve the OG and FG in the required volume.
I am using Graham Wheelers book - Brew your own British Real Ale, as my recipe database.
The reason for choosing this is, I believe that Graham is well respected for his knowledge and has produced these recipies himself and secondly that I have drunk many of the beers when I lived in England and thirdly because the book covers recipies over a wide range of gravities.
I have been brewing for about 15 months starting with kit & kilo,I brewed slome nice beers but all had the beer kit taste, I moved on to using LME and DME plus particals and my choice of hops,all went great until I started to read various forums suggesting that the real b rewing was only achievable using all grain. I made the necessary puchases of HLT,Mash tun,Grain Mill,plus a miriad of thermometers,and other miscelaneous gagets.
My intial foray into all grain was with the mash tun,I don't think that at the time I fully understood what I was supposed to do but it all seemed easy on paper - bought Palmer's How to Brew, just to complicate things. The first brews, I got most things wrong but the resulting beer was the best that I had made,tasted fantastic in comparison to K&K,the bug had bitten !
The next influence was reading about BIAB, could not be easier, I still got everything wrong,but the beer tasted great. I am convinced that BIAB is the way for me and I am endeavouring to get things right.
I have made a new start and am calibrating all my equipment and vessels,weighing water has been the most revealing error of my measuring jugs and cubes,all fermenters in use at the moment but they are next.
The efficiencies that I have been getting are nowhere near to what they should be, I have started to mill with a finer crush and as a trial I am using a recipe from British Real Ale called "Batham's Best Bitter", the reason for this is that I am trying to work with the least number of variables,this recipy only uses Pale Malt so I should be able to get a handle on the efficiency versus the planned efficiency,I think that this is import - not from the beer quality - but from the fact that if I chose to brew a beer with an OG of 1031 (Hook Norton Hooky Dark) with my under efficent system I would probably get just water.
I will keep going until I have mastered the technique and with the help of too many people to mention
I will achieve my mission statement.
I started by recalibrating all my equipment, got a few surprises when I weighed water instead of trusting my 5 Litre jug.
I have a Crown concealed element urn,( haven't found any problem getting rolling boil as suggested by some brewers).
I made dipsticks to determine the volume of water/wort in the urn, dipping from the top of the urn as opposed to dipping from the base.
1. 33 litres mash volume ( used this as a start point, rather add to preboil than boil longer.
2. 31 litres pre-boil ( got this by squeezing the bag with 2 glass saucepan lids)
3. 27.5 litres post boil, achieved exactly.
4. 25.5 litres after cooling - needed to add .5 litre.
I added to my armoury with the addition of a Refractometer, used this to determine the OG
and found that to my surprise that I was in the right ball park.
The resulting wort was primed with a Safale SO4 yeast and fermented at 20c for 3 weeks,
crash chilled for 1 week,FG finished at 1,010, bottled and primed and now await the taste test.
Lessons learned - don't trust pregraduated measuring jugs and vessels.
- don't trust thermometers.
I attach the recipe I used - deliberately simple with the least number of variables to start me off - happy with the results.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by nala on 06 Jun 2011, 14:12, edited 5 times in total.
Post #17 made 14 years ago
I think from what I have seen the last while there are some tense brewers that should read this whole topic,althuogh it is getting longer.Bump
AWOL
Post #19 made 13 years ago
I can't believe this thread is so old Lylo. Nice find . hashie started another one here earlier this year on a very similar subject.
Not sure if I wrote here or there on the dichotomy of numbers versus no numbers. Numbers can be a very handy tool but often get worshipped when they shouldn't be
.
If used properly, numbers/calculations can clearly communicate to another brewer how best a recipe can be duplicated. Excuse the pun but numbers are just one part of the equation of transferring knowledge from one brewer to another well.
Unambiguous terminology is another thing. Other factors necessary in communicating your recipe to a second brewer include liquor (water) management, hop management and trub management. These things only take a few extra lines in a Recipe Report but can answer so many questions.
For example, compare the pdf at the end of this post with the Recipe Report at the bottom of this post. If you wanted to duplicate that recipe, which report would you want?
A Good Example of Respecting Calculations too Much
One good example of people respecting calculations too much is in bitterness calculations. Assuming you have already seen and understood this post, the problem gets worse.
The Tinseth, Garetz and Rager formulas (which all disagree
) assume all bitterness stops at the end of the boil but any professional brewer will tell you it doesn't. Most professional brewers don't start their chill until 30-60 minutes after end of boil. Some home brewers do the same but others turn on their chiller at flame-out.
So, when communicating a recipe, knowing when you started your chill is excellent information. Whether you chilled or no-chilled is not excellent information unless, in the case of chilling, you do tell me when you started chilling.
A Good Balance
The above is just one of so many things that has been considered in the BIABacus and why writing it and the accompanying terminology has taken so long. For example, the hop and chill management issues only came up relatively recently but have taken at least a few months to question, explore, and then write into a tiny amount of space that still makes sense and look okay.
The aim has been to make everything super-simple for every brewer no matter what their equipment or knowledge level. Hopefully, like a hologram, no matter from which direction you look at the BIABacus, it will give you a clear picture. Hope so!
In other words, with a minimum amount of study, it should be a very good vehicle to communicate a heap of valuable information extremely quickly.
...
But, after writing all the above, a good recipe, no matter how much you stuff it up numbers wise, nearly always gives you a great beer. So, this thread, will always be correct in its title.
PP
. hashie started another one here earlier this year on a very similar subject.Not sure if I wrote here or there on the dichotomy of numbers versus no numbers. Numbers can be a very handy tool but often get worshipped when they shouldn't be
.If used properly, numbers/calculations can clearly communicate to another brewer how best a recipe can be duplicated. Excuse the pun but numbers are just one part of the equation of transferring knowledge from one brewer to another well.
Unambiguous terminology is another thing. Other factors necessary in communicating your recipe to a second brewer include liquor (water) management, hop management and trub management. These things only take a few extra lines in a Recipe Report but can answer so many questions.
For example, compare the pdf at the end of this post with the Recipe Report at the bottom of this post. If you wanted to duplicate that recipe, which report would you want?
A Good Example of Respecting Calculations too Much
One good example of people respecting calculations too much is in bitterness calculations. Assuming you have already seen and understood this post, the problem gets worse
.The Tinseth, Garetz and Rager formulas (which all disagree
) assume all bitterness stops at the end of the boil but any professional brewer will tell you it doesn't. Most professional brewers don't start their chill until 30-60 minutes after end of boil. Some home brewers do the same but others turn on their chiller at flame-out.So, when communicating a recipe, knowing when you started your chill is excellent information. Whether you chilled or no-chilled is not excellent information unless, in the case of chilling, you do tell me when you started chilling.
A Good Balance
The above is just one of so many things that has been considered in the BIABacus and why writing it and the accompanying terminology has taken so long. For example, the hop and chill management issues only came up relatively recently but have taken at least a few months to question, explore, and then write into a tiny amount of space that still makes sense and look okay.
The aim has been to make everything super-simple for every brewer no matter what their equipment or knowledge level. Hopefully, like a hologram, no matter from which direction you look at the BIABacus, it will give you a clear picture. Hope so
!In other words, with a minimum amount of study, it should be a very good vehicle to communicate a heap of valuable information extremely quickly.
...
But, after writing all the above, a good recipe, no matter how much you stuff it up numbers wise, nearly always gives you a great beer. So, this thread, will always be correct in its title
. PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 24 Aug 2012, 21:02, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #20 made 12 years ago
I have been watching all of the new member posts and I think it's a great time to give this a bump. Read all the posts newbies, it will really help settle early game nerves.
AWOL
Post #21 made 11 years ago
Lylo-
I have not only read all of the posts in this thread, I have come back and read it three times.
EXCELLENT!! and thank you to all that have made contributions
.
For a New Brewer such as myself, finding BIABrewer has been a God send.
Plus it has saved me lots of cash to find out I do not have to get tons of expensive equipment to make good Beer.
I can not wait to get home and try all of this out.
V/r
Mike
I have not only read all of the posts in this thread, I have come back and read it three times.
EXCELLENT!! and thank you to all that have made contributions
.For a New Brewer such as myself, finding BIABrewer has been a God send.
Plus it has saved me lots of cash to find out I do not have to get tons of expensive equipment to make good Beer.
I can not wait to get home and try all of this out.
V/r
Mike
