Display posts from previous
Sort by

BIABacus and Beersmith discrepancies

Post #1 made 9 years ago
by Dadoffrosty
I have been using both of these and I note that I am getting significantly lower TWN figure in the spreadsheet compared to the Beersmith for the same equipment setup and recipe. I am totally bamboozled as to why this would be. I plugged in the evaporation rate, vessel dimensions into both yet I end up with a different TWN figure- the spreadheet being about 4 litres less for a 90 minute boil. Anyone out there can steer me in the right direction? The last receipe I used the Beersmith volume and hit the expected gravity figure. If I had used the spreadsheet TWN volume I would have had to add water after the boil I suspect.

Post #2 made 9 years ago
by ShorePoints
Dadoffrosty - some questions first:
Have you looked at the BIABacus numbers without entering an evaporation rate?
There is a default evaporation rate pre-set in the BIABacus that is tied to your kettle dimensions.
Do you have a reason for why you "plugged in" a number that might be different? As in, have you determined the evaporation rate for your equipment and used that rate?
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #3 made 9 years ago
by Rick
Post the beersmith recipe as well as your BIABacus file so that it can be checked for data entry errors.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From United States of America

Post #4 made 9 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Is BS set to an efficiency %, plug that into BIABacus. Grain absorption is another factor at the front end prior to start of boil.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #6 made 9 years ago
by Dadoffrosty
Thanks for the quick response M_S ,
sorry for this question, but how do I post the requested information to the forum so you can see the data entered into each?
In the mean time the questions asked

Mash Design in BS efficiency numbers are Total effic- 72% Est Mash Eff - 78.5%. IN BIABacus it is the default calculation
Grain Absorp in BS 3.63 Litres in BIABacus it is the default calculation
Evaporation in BS is 6.36L total for 90 mins in BIABacus it is the default calculation of 6.35L so not much discrepancy here.

TWN in BS is 35.31 L in BIABacus it is 33.34 L

Post #7 made 9 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
In BIABacus enter 72% in Section X (upper right) set it to _______ %

In BS, what is the grain absorption ratio in l/kg or qt/lb ? You would have to enter another value in BS for this to match BIABacus, as this is only displayed.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #8 made 9 years ago
by Dadoffrosty
OK, the 72% figure made an adjustment of .33 litres increase - heading in the right direction
The BS absorption rate is 3.63 litres for 5.94kgs of grain which is 0.611 litres/kg

Post #16 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
Hi Dado :salute:,

I think what is happening here is that we are trying to help you match the results from Beersmith whereas we shouldn't be doing that (although we can do that).

I haven't done a good long post to the forum in a while and your question is just the sort I love to sink my teeth into so here goes...

[center]Beersmith is Static, BIABacus is Dynamic[/center]

This site helped BeerSmith come up with profiles for BeerSmith2 but they are very limited because, Beersmith, and all other brewing software, besides the BIABacus, are what you might regard as static programs. What do I mean by that?...

A Static Program: Static brewing software (all brewing software besides the BIABcaus spreadsheet) asks the user to set critical defaults such as sugars extracted from the grain, evaporation rate, trub losses etc., etc. It gets worse though because, for example, in BeerSmith, brewing a beer with say 1.080 original gravity is theoretically no different from brewing a beer of 1.035 original gravity. BUT, that is totally incorrect.

A Dynamic Program: The BIABacus takes into consideration factors that static software cannot. For example, in the BIABacus, if you change the original gravity you want, it will automatically adjust a myriad of other factors without you even knowing it.

If you do a search on this site of BeerSmith2, you will find somewhere (certainly, I have done some long posts on this before), a few examples where the results from BeerSmith and the BIABacus can be made to match exactly. However, to get those results, you will be be-littling the power of the BIABacus; in other words, you will be over-riding it's 'intelligent' algorithms and replacing them with non-dynamic defaults such as "75% brewhouse efficiency", a term which can actually mean anything!

...

It is a major problem for new brewers, this static versus dynamic thing. The static model is a dream to program but, it is not real-life or user-friendly in any way.

The BIABacus is dynamic, but, trying to program it into something other than it's current spreadsheet form :argh:. It really does only take 20 mins to learn and is far more accurate than anything else so, don't try and match to existing programs (we have done it a hundred times), instead, just enjoy the well thought-out defaults*.

*And, don't change those defaults until you have done several brews!!!

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 06 Nov 2016, 22:42, edited 1 time in total.
If you have found the above or anything else of value on BIABrewer.info, consider supporting us by getting some BIPs!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Australia

Post #17 made 9 years ago
by Dadoffrosty
Thanks PP for your time in constructing this length response. I am truly grateful.
To be honest part of the reason I went to Beersmith2 was due to an earlier brew I did using the BIABacus where the TWN seemed to be lower than required. The final gravity achieved was way higher than my target so I had to add water to bring it down. However it seems that I may have been using an outdated version of the spreadsheet which may have contributed to the problem - thanks MS for highlighting that.
I have done north of 10 brews using the spreadsheet and I seemed to be getting mixed results and was losing confidence. I now appreciate the dynamic aspect it imparts to managing the brews. I also would like to explore the more detailed information within the spreadsheet by starting to do more measurement and recording of gravities at the various stages of my next brew and see how I go with that.
Thanks again PP and MS

Post #19 made 9 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
Now that we matched it, as close as we could, just recommend to remove all overrides in Section X, leaving them blank and go with that for half dozen brews until you have something more definitive to enter there.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #20 made 9 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
Dadoffrosty. The biabacus is set up as a precaution to err on the side of having to dilute your wort in the fermenter as opposed to having to add water and extract. It is much easier to add just water.
I would suggest measuring and recording everything you can for now and we can help to dial in the biabacus after a number of brews. I have even started recording air temperature and humidity on brewdays.
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

Weehoosebrewing.ga
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Canada

Post #21 made 9 years ago
by Dadoffrosty
Thanks Lumpy5oh, yes good advice. I usually don't do much measuring but will certainly be walking down that road from now on. I have set up my new Blank spreadsheet with only the kettle dimensions and kettle shape adjustment.
It would be good if we could assemble a list of some of these facts about the biabacus in the newbies section of the forum for reference. Someone would have to devote some time to it but it may relieve the "old hands" of having to constantly answer this sort of issue from less experienced brewers. Just a thought.

Post #22 made 9 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
Stuff like that is currently in the works. When the revamped new site is released us old hats will have nothing to do!
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

Weehoosebrewing.ga
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Canada
Post Reply

Return to “BIABrewer.info and BIAB for New Members”

Brewers Online

Brewers browsing this forum: No members and 61 guests