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New brewer and recipe help...

Post #1 made 9 years ago
by Hydreliox
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Good afternoon all,

I am currently out here in the sunny tropics - specifically the Philippines. I am already aware of temperature concerns, but can possibly run an AC unit to combat this weather (35degC average ATM).

After quite a bit of difficult I have managed to get my hands of some grain and yeast (see below) but even with Brew Target at my disposal my knowledge doesn't yet stretch far enough to create an appropriate recipe.

I am ideally looking for a strong and crispy lager (for the hot days) and a good rich chocolatey and peanut butter style porter. Maybe a strong red ale too. If this isn't possible with the ingredients I have then so be it - let me know what is possible. Not included are some of the extras that I may be able to find (oats, honey, rice, cocoa nibs, etc). Extra ingredients I have are for when I can progress onto new things - just ordered a load because shipping was massively pricey here.

If I have missed anything else then please just ask me. I am most certainly and definitely VERY new to this! I am planning BIAB method as I have limited time, space and equipment and I think this should be a suitable set up for the brewing I am a doin'.

Thanks for any help and input. Help get me away from 5 years of San Miguel and onto something new

Cheers.
Jim

Weyermann® Carabohemian® - 2lbs
Weyermann® Carahell® Malt - 2lbs
Weyermann® Carapils® - 2lbs
Weyermann® Caramunich® Type 3 - 2lbs
Weyermann® CaraRed® - 2lbs
Weyermann® Premium Pilsner Malt Extra Pale - 12lbs
Weyermann® Roasted Barley- 12lbs (over ordered by a long shot by novice error - don't do this!)

Fermentis® Safbrew Abbaye
Fermentis® Safale US-05
Fermentis® Safale S-04
Fermentis® Saflager W-34/70

Golding (UK East Kent) Hop Pellets
German Tradition Hop Pellets

Conditioning tablets

I already have a first blast at creating a recipe with the above ingredients - but not too sure if I am going in the right direction.


[center]BIABacus Pre-Release 1.3 RECIPE REPORT[/center]
[center]BIAB Recipe Designer, Calculator and Scaler.[/center]
[center](Please visit http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the latest version.)[/center]
[center]Spit Roasted - Batch 1[/center]

Recipe Overview

Brewer: Jim
Style: Robust Porter
Source Recipe Link:

Original Gravity (OG): 1.063
IBU's (Tinseth): 35
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 0.56
Colour: 47.5 EBC = 24.1 SRM
ABV%: 6.1

Efficiency into Kettle (EIK): 80.7 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 69.2 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 60 mins at 65 C = 149 F
Boil: 60 min
Ferment: 21 days at 25 C = 77 F

Volumes & Gravities

Total Water Needed (TWN): 22.86 L = 6.04 G
Volume into Kettle (VIK): 21.37 L = 5.64 G @ 1.043
End of Boil Volume - Ambient (EOBV-A): 14 L = 3.7 G @ 1.063
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 12 L = 3.17 G @ 1.063
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 11.11 L = 2.94 G @ 1.016 assuming apparent attenuation of 75 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

Note: If extracts, sugars or adjuncts are not followed by an exclamation mark, go to http://www.biabrewer.info" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (needs link)

85% WPPMEP (2.25 EBC = 1.1 SRM) 3136 grams = 6.91 pounds
6% WRB (825 EBC = 418.8 SRM) 221 grams = 0.49 pounds
9% WCaraP (4 EBC = 2 SRM) 332 grams = 0.73 pounds

The Hop Bill (Based on Tinseth Formula)

35 IBU Golding Pellets (5%AA) 43.4 grams = 1.531 ounces at 60 mins

Mash Steps

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash) for 60 mins at 65 C = 149 F

Miscellaneous Ingredients

50g Cocoa Nibs (F)
4 Vanilla Pods (F)

Chilling & Hop Management Methods

Fermentation& Conditioning

Fermention: Abbaye for 21 days at 25 C = 77 F

Secondary Used: Y

Condition for 21 days.


Thanks for taking the time to have a look. If anyone can think of a way to use the Roasted Barley up let me know!

Happy Brewing :thumbs:
Last edited by Hydreliox on 05 Apr 2016, 14:46, edited 2 times in total.

Post #2 made 9 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
I haven't been able to look at the Biabacus. One suggestion tho is to change the yeast to the Us04. The abbey yeast can produce Ester flavors that you probably don't want. It is best used in belgian style beers.
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Post #4 made 9 years ago
by Hydreliox
Uploaded a BIABacus file - need a few blanks filling in a in checking over a bit - I really am starting with scratch and feel this is all a little bit 'McGyver' in the Philippines - will try to update with some pictures later of a the equipment I currently have at my disposal (not a pretty site). Even the HBS I have used to mail order in the country has a limited supply at the moment (no hydrometer anyone?).

Thanks all. I'm just reading, reading and rereading at the moment.

P.S. Good news is I've been given a fermenting fridge budget by the missus :D

Happy brewing :peace:

Jim
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Post #5 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
Good posts Hydreliox and welcome to the forum :salute:,

I'm not a porter expert so am going to just focus on your BIABacus file in this post. You do have great ingredients for a lager/pilsner. Once you get through this post, I'll be able to shoot you a recipe.

That's a bloody big kettle! So, what I'm wondering, is why are you only brewing 12 L into the fermenter? I just want to make sure there is a reason for this. You'll find that in such a large kettle, you are going to get more losses than the BIABacus is predicting with such a small batch.

Secondly, try and boil for 90 minutes. There are a lot of reasons for this but for now, just take my word on it as I'm short on time sorry.

In Section C, maybe give some more detail on the malts. Hold on!!! See you added comments there. Very cool - I never thought of that!!! Be aware though that the comments won't come out in a Recipe Report so do give a tad more detail in the actual field.

On the mash side of things, you need to do a 90 minute mash for most recipes. I know you might have read on some forums about iodine tests and malts converting in two seconds but that's incorrect. We've done a heap of tests here (by many brewers) and you will get significantly more sugars from your grain with a 90 minute mash than a 60 minute one. Also remember that BIAB simultaneously mashes and sparges whereas traditional brewing might do a 60 minute mash but this is followed by a half hour of sparging. Contact time with the grain is important.

Do a mash-out if it's not too much trouble. Just lift your bag, heat the sweet liquor to 78°C and dump your bag in and agitate it for a minute or two. This just increases your sugar extraction a tad and does no harm.

I'm worried about your fermentation time and temperature. 25C is too hot and 25 days is too long on that recipe. I see Lumpy is on to that as well. As I said, I'm not a porter expert but I'd even be looking at your Safale US-05 for this and keep it at around 18C. US-05 is very clean but Lumpy's suggestion might be better? With either S-04 or US-05 though, you can be getting that packaged (into keg or bottles) in a max of ten days.

Be really careful of fermenting at the high temperature end of any yeast as they will, as Lumpy mentioned, often throw you some flavours that are way beyond what you were expecting.

...

I think you've done an amazing job for your first bash at the BIABacus :clap:. I also think you have bought yourself some great ingredients :thumbs:.

Let's see what others say on the porter and I'll look after the lager/pilsner tomorrow or when I hear back from you in the 12 L business.

Good on you ;),
PP
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Post #6 made 9 years ago
by flhb
I agree with everyone on the yeast topic. It will especially be a problem if you are fermenting at high temps as the ester production in Belgian yeast strains are already high and will be even greater than at lower temps. Safale s-04 would be a good choice if you want a little bit of ester production but if you won't have temp control I would suggest going with the cleaner US-05.

The extra pale pilsen malt isn't what I would choose as a base malt for a robust porter, but if that's all you have I wouldn't worry about it too much. I would go with some 2-row or pale ale malt if possible.
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Post #7 made 9 years ago
by Hydreliox
PP

Thanks for taking out the time to give me some feedback at have a look at the BIABacus file. To be honest with the kettle I was gu-estimating at best at that point. I'll drag the lump out later and give it a real measure up. Sat in storage for the time being.

My main reason for just doing a 12l batch was this is a first crack and I didn't want to waste too many ingredients if I can brew with changes a few days later - however, as I gain confidence and learn a lot from you guys I may decide to upscale this a little.

A 90 minute boil is an easy thing and I can happily switch to that.

I was struggling with the BIABacus file to change the size of the boxes for text - just summarised it for myself but will update it from there as I figure out the sheet a bit more.

I have no set reason the use the abbey yeast so can happily switch over. I will do some research into the differences between the various yeasts at my disposal and how best to utilise them.

Thank you for the advice on mash out too - will do exactly that!

As for temps I will have to cool the wort in an ice bath to get it down to pitching temperature and then ferment in a refrigerator (been given the wife's approval for the new hobby ;))

Thanks for looking for a lager recipe for me - it is exactly the other brew I wanted to have on the go. Will need to find some more base before I might be able to do it though?

Also, very interesting that you say bottling in 10 days - I was under the impression that 2-3 weeks was about average. Is this to do with the particular type of yeast used? Also, is there a recommendation as to the amount of sugar/corn syrup used for bottling? As said in a previous post, for the time being I am without a hydrometer. Tough to know if and when I hit a FG. Searching for one in the country frantically (which has given me an idea)!

All the best and happy brewing!

Post #8 made 9 years ago
by Hydreliox
Again, thanks for some awesome feedback - look like the us-05 has made it to BIABacus upon everyones advice.
The extra pale pilsen malt isn't what I would choose as a base malt for a robust porter, but if that's all you have I wouldn't worry about it too much. I would go with some 2-row or pale ale malt if possible.
Yeah, unfortunately they were out of stock of a pale - not sure about a 2-row, I will check. To be honest main reason for going the extra pale pilsen malt was the name sounded so good I wanted to make a beer from it :D

Happy Brewing :peace:
Last edited by Hydreliox on 05 Apr 2016, 21:53, edited 1 time in total.

Post #9 made 9 years ago
by Hydreliox
Post reserved for adding equipment and pictures of.

(Temporarily)

1x Rubbermaid 37.9 Round cooler with dispenser tap
1x square Rubbermaid cooler
1x 29l stainless kettle
1x candy/sugar thermometer
1x meat probe analog thermometer
2x 5l plastic fermenting vessels - clear blue with dispenser tap on the bottom

Need a bag for my BIAB, hoses for siphoning, hydrometer, and some bits so I can start doing yeast starters (modding a laptop cooling fan?)

Will add pics of things and my workspace and confirm all dimensions this evening!

So, what else am I missing?

-----------------------------------------------------
UPDATE
-----------------------------------------------------

Just picked up 120 amber swing top bottle - used but in good condition and someone already did a great job of cleaning and label removal for me. The 120 bottle came at the grand price of 3000php (65USD or 45GBP).

Can't wait - reusable solution that requires no wasted bottle caps and not bottle capper - awesome!

Happy Brewing!
Jim :thumbs:

-----------------------------------------------------
UPDATE
-----------------------------------------------------

Equipment list updated
Pics of a few bits below
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Last edited by Hydreliox on 06 Apr 2016, 19:36, edited 1 time in total.

Post #10 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
"... and confirm all dimensions this evening!"

Excellent. Double-check all your volumes on the above containers Hydre and edit above when done otherwise a reader will start getting really confused :). Remember one litre of water weighs one kilogram so if you have some scales around the house, you can use them to help in double-checking volumes. A straight-sided and flat-bottomed vessel only needs the internal depth and diameter.

Don't trust marked jugs/vessels, occasionally they can be wrong - very wrong!
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Post #12 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
That's great Jim :peace:,

I can certainly see several possibilities here and a few problems. My brain is a bit worn out for today but before it gives out completely...

1. What is your heat source? What is going to be heating your liquor/water, mash and boil? (This is a big question!!!)
2. I'm worried about your fermenters (part 1). If I filled them to the brim, would they only hold 5L?
3. I'm worried about your fermenters (part 2). Can you detach the taps and pull them apart completely?
4. The grain you have already bought, is it already crushed? If so, what packaging is it in and how are you storing it?
5. The hops you have bought, were they pellets or something else and how are you storing them?

Don't be worried about your answers to the above, just give them and we'll work from there ;),
PP
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Post #13 made 9 years ago
by Hydreliox
PP-

Here are the best go at the answers I can have -

1. 4 ring gas burner and 2 electric hob elements in the kitchen, or dual gas burner outside.
2. They fall short of the brim at 5l - but not by very far
3. Not sure - will check it out later - I believe so, everything is made to be replaced and repaired out here.
4. Yes the store I am getting it sent from gas milled it already. I am unsure of the packaging - not received yet. Still looking at storing options. What would you recommend? The roasted barley is my biggest issue for now. Will get more base so I can get another brew going to fill my new bottles up so can use a few more of the specialty grains :D
5. Hops are pellets - only 100g of each - not sure on storage yet either.

Meh, live and learn.

Happy Brewing :peace:

Post #14 made 9 years ago
by PistolPatch
Jim,

Sorry I haven't got back to you earlier - think I lost my train of thought :dunno: :).

One thing we are still missing is the internal height and diameter of your kettle/stock-pot. We need those to double check the volume and to help estimate your evaporation rate.

Storage

Grain: You are in the tropics and your grain is already crushed so it's going to be super-important for you to keep your grain sealed and free of moisture. Without really knowing what containers you have up your sleeve, I would suggest you put each grain in its own sealable plastic container and put all those containers inside a sealable 30 L pail. You're really going to have to be careful with this.

Hop Pellets: Put them in sealable plastic containers (tupperware) and keep them in your freezer.

Fermenter

The tropics, once again, mean you are going to have to be a fastidious brewer in the cleanliness department.

I think those fermenters are going to have to go for many reasons. If your kettle is 29L, you'll be able to brew about 15 L into the fermenter therefore, the 5L ones you have now are nowhere big enough. They are going to be a PITA to clean and sanitise as well. The taps will also most probably be a bastard to clean and sanitise. You're also going to need an air-lock. Considering where you live and the difficulty of buying some things, here is what I would recommend and it's actually a great system...

Buy a 25L pail (preferably polypropylene otherwise just a normal white plastic pail) with a lid that seals. You will also need a grommet (or single-holed silicone) and two lengths of food-grade vinyl tubing with an outside diameter of 9.0 to 9.5mm (make one length 4 x the height of the pail and the other length, 2 x the height of the pail) and a strong hand clamp. Look at the pic below...

[EDIT: Can't seem to upload the pic atm. Will have to try again later. This is much easier to explain with a pic.]
Lid.jpg
Basically, the pic shows a pail and lid. You can either drill a small hole and use a grommet (see centre of lid) or drill a 38MM hole and us a single-holed silicone bung (taper goes from 36 to 45mm and the hole in it should be 9.5mm - 3/8"). The pic shows the shorter beer line going from the bung (it's just pushed in a small way, say an inch) to a bottle full of sanitised water. This acts as your air-lock and has the advantage of acting as a blow-off mechanism in the case of violent fermentations.

[Of course, if you do the smaller hole and grommet, your tube will poke into that that.]

After fermentation is complete, sanitise the inside and outside of the longer hose and fill it with no-rinse sanitiser. Place the clamp on one end, remove the "blow-off line" and insert the end without a clamp through the bung hole or grommet. Push it through until it hits the bottom of the fermenter*. Release the clamp and let the no-rinse sanitiser flow out and let the beer flow until it runs clear. Re-clamp and then start bottling, re-clamping between fills.

Before bottling, gently release a portion of the lid so as a vacuum does not form.

...

While the above might sound clumsy, it's not and it will serve you well. In fact, it has many advantages especially if you go for the larger hole and single-holed silcone bung.

The only real problem with the above is that racking will be very slow but, you'll get by until you can purchase some refinements, and, slow racking has its advantages.

Assuming you have the large hole and silicone bung set-up, your first refinement, as soon as possible would be a stainless steel racking cane (9.5mm (3/8") OD - outside diameter) and replace the long beer hose with one that has an internal diameter of 9.5mm (3/8") (preferably silicone as it will last you forever and can be used for hot transfers should you ever need to do them). Because you will have the cane, the length of the long hose can now be just 3 X the height of the pail.

Later, there are many other cool things you can add to this basic set-up.

Out of time now...
:peace:
PP

* My only worry with the vinyl hose is whether it will "stiff enough" to push down to the bottom of the fermenter. The lines in my pic are actually beer line and they are too tough to be clamped. I'll hunt around and see if I have any vinyl hose tomorrow. It would be much better though if you could get a racking cane.
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 10 Apr 2016, 18:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #15 made 9 years ago
by Hydreliox
PP - No problem, I am still waiting for the grains and I also didn't sort my previous posts out - so sorry, I didn't update/change the BIABacus file on my OP - not sure if I can - will look in a minute. Anyway, the internal dimensions for the kettle are 37cm width and 27cm height. According to the sheet this gives me around 29l internal volume.

I am having someone collect for me today two 20l pails. They are of a red colour so should help to keep light out, and I will store tupperware inside one of these tubs for the grain bill - if I need more I can get them sourced easily.

I have an issue finding (according to my local knowledgeable sources) a 25l pail - in white. I do have a white pail which contains carbon dioxide absorbent material for diving - brand name Sofnolime - contains sodium hydroxide - caustic soda. Now, this would give a great clean on top of other rinses however I do have obvious issue of burning my skin, eyes (actually not too worried, I use this stuff a lot) - or causing off flavours or issues in the brew. Advice on this?

So, with that in mind I am thinking about the following.....

10gal Rubbermaid cooler - mash tun (should be easy to keep temps here in the tropics...)
1 Red Pail - grain storage
1 Red Pail - Fermenter (modified to above instructions with blow off/air lock installed. I also very much like the idea (need to re read it) of the siphoning...

I have potential for 2 blue tubs for bottling OR bottle directly from fermenter OR bottle from 10gallon cooler.
Might use the 2 blue tubs for a second batch if I am in a pinch and need to ferment. They are cheap as chips so can be replaced for something better when they get grimy and grotty.

I am also having difficulty at the moment as StarSan is not available in the country. Available to me are the following options; boiling water, FDA approved Baby Bottle cleaner (good for babies - good for me rule?), caustic soda (see above), iodine/betadine, hydrogen peroxide (John Palmer lists this?). Any ideas of the best 'solution' ;)

Also, not sure on material of the hoses available to me. Will try and ask someone (the thought of this is ridiculous!)

I must admit - I am EXTREMELY excited for the day the grains arrive - and need to make sure I have my brew-to-do list ticked off as best as possible by the middle of this week. Turns out the mosquito netting around my bed at home looks perfect bag material - see what Mrs T. says about that one ;)

All the best - thanks again PP...

Jim

Post #16 made 9 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
You will want to use a separate bucket for bottling. Siphon the beer off of the yeast into the second bucket and add your boiled and cooled priming sugar.
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New brewer and recipe help...

Post #17 made 9 years ago
by Contrarian
Sounds like PP and others are well across the equipment side of things for you so I might chime in about recipes.

Technically speaking a porter would use chocolate malt and a stout would use roast barley but you can make a tasty dark beer with the ingredients that you have.

I would go with a bill of about 85% Pilsner, 8% roast barley and 7% caramunich.

Carapils is a very light crystal malt and is good for adding body and improving head retention in pale beers.

Caramunich is much darker, maltier and sweeter and will add a lot more complexity of flavour to a dark beer.

Try this for a start but you could also try adding some carabohemian as part of the grain bill for a bit more complexity.

Use the goldings hops at the beginning of the boil and with 15 minutes to go. I'd aim for about 35IBU with 20 from the first addition and 15 from the second one.

S04 is a good yeast for the style, best if you can keep the temperature at around 18-20C. If you have a fridge you can use there are simple controllers called an STC-1000 that are commonly used for this kind of purpose. You need to wire it up though which isn't hard but if you're not handy with that kind of thing use a sparky.

A good lager is a technical beer to make but I think you can use what you have to do a good job.

You could either use 100% Pilsner malt or use 5% carapils to add some more body.

The trick to a good lager is fermenting at the right temperature and that is normally around 10C although I often ferment at 8/9C. It is really important to have enough healthy yeast to work at this temperature so I would suggest this process.

Do 2 identical brews to get the same wort but double quantity. Place 1L in one of your 5L fermenters and 3L in the other one and the rest in your bucket. Put them all in the fridge (hopefully they fit!) and chill to 9/10C. When they are chilled pitch the yeast into the 1L of wort after giving it a good shake to aerate. After about 24 hours it should be fermenting. Wait until there are plenty of bubbles, once it is kicking along well pour this into the 3L after fining that a good shake and do the same thing. Wait a day or two and when it is going along well adds to the main batch.

This will ensure you have plenty of happy healthy yeast and produce a nice clean lager.

It will need at least 2 weeks to ferment but after about 10 days raise the temperature 3-4C and leave for at least 3 days or until it seems to be well and truly finished. This is fairly tricky without a hydrometer!

Then drop the temperature to as close to 0 as possible and leave for a week before bottling.

It's a fair process but I do love a good lager in hot weather so it is worth the effort. Might be worth knocking out a few other beers beforehand so you have a stockpile while your equipment is tied up for weeks!

Another option in hot weather is to try to make a saison. Not sure how appropriate your abbey yeast would be but saisons can be fermented at ambient temperature, even in the tropics and make a very refreshing drink in hot weather.

Good luck and happy brewing!
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