4th BIAB-OG issue

Post #1 made 9 years ago
Brewed my 4th beer, this time i tried different approach. i always did soaking for my Full volume variations instead of sparging.
Could it be that that affected my efficiency now, since i ended up with the similar volume ,but much lower OG.Or is it a issue with during boil since it is a lower eff too. I got pretty good rolling boil the whole time.
I attached a file for a better insight..
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Post #2 made 9 years ago
Toca, your Projected VAW was 16.00L and you were able to collect 17.70.
Image
So, you got 17.7/16 or 1.106 or 110.6% more Sweet liquor, this will lower the GAW.
Image
Now, the projected GAW was 1.069 or 69 Gravity points, and 69 points/1.106 is 62.3 Gravity points, which is 1.0623, the new projected GAW.

If you can Measure the Volume of boiling wort or the Gravity of the Boil, You could get better VAW, and GAW.
Image
Your Boil off Conditions (Humidity, Ambient Temperatures, Barometric Pressure, and Wind), Will change your Boil Off Rate, EVERY batch.
Image
BUT, You would get a Better Efficiency Number.
Image
JMHO, YMMV.
Last edited by joshua on 22 Dec 2015, 05:05, edited 1 time in total.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #3 made 9 years ago
Josh, im not sure about that VAW.
In the same section just above it VIF i added 16,7 Lit. but that includes 1 liter i added into fermentor.
without it my VIF is 15,7 Liters. so what value do I enter there,with or without the aditional water?
I see that program asummes i topped up ,but dont understand is VIF in section K or VIF in section L?

Post #4 made 9 years ago
Toca, the Estimated Volumes in section 'K' is the programs determinations,

You reported 16.7 L into the fermenter(VIF) in Section 'L' Called "Your Actual Pre-Pitching Volumes".
There is 1L lost in the "Kettle to Fermenter Loss"(KFL) entry.
Which 16.7L(VIF) and 1L(KFL) equals 17.6L(VAW)

If you added 1L to the 15.7l to Make 16.7(VIF), you will need to change the (VIF) in section 'L' to 15.7.

That means you actually had 0.7L more than Projected, But was that due to the 4L from the Sparge as Section 'W' shows?

Diluting the sweet liquor, by 4L, will change the Gravity, either into the Boil or at the end of the boil, and the Program does not show when the Sparge water was Added.
So the reported 4L Sparge is likely why your had a LOW GIB of 1.060SG

Anyway, you finished 15.7 onto the fermenter instead of Getting 16L, and reported 1.060SG instead of getting 1.069SG.

You should have a Great beer, when Done.
Image
Image
Last edited by joshua on 22 Dec 2015, 08:37, edited 1 time in total.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #5 made 9 years ago
OK, much clearer about that now. i thought program takes into account the Full Volume Variations when estimating SG. but if not , i understand why it projected higher SG.
A lot of interesting details in biabacus, just when you think you got it all figured. thanks for taking time to clarify.

Post #6 made 9 years ago
The BIABacus does a good job estimating volumes and gravities.

Can you describe your soaking or sparge process?

What I used to do when I had a smaller pot was to collect my first runnings into a plastic bucket, heat up my additional water in the same pot for sparging, pull bag then add my first bit back in.

Taking good measurements is key, if you want to understand what's going.

Posting your file was a good help.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #7 made 9 years ago
Nice job Toca, joshua and MS ;),

Couple of points/clarifications/questions...

Toca: Yep you are correct. Whatever you type into Section W assumes that you will follow that plan. Your plan is very sensible given that size kettle :salute:.

But! :) ...

On forums, stuff can get a little confusing. For example, in your first post, you mention,
This time I tried different approach. I always did soaking for my Full volume variations instead of sparging
. That sentence is forcing MS to ask his question above because your BIABacus says you still did sparge (4 L "Water Used in a Sparge" in Section W) and MS, and I , would assume you did that as well as adding the 1 L to the fermentor.

So, in addition to MS's question, if you did sparge 4L and 1 L to the fermentor, what were you doing before? (I'll write a bit more below.)

VIF assumes you have done everything in Section W. So, if you had, before your brew, 1 L written in "Water Added to Fermentor" then you would add that to the fermentor before taking your actual VIF reading. (No other software handles auto-efficiency, let alone the things allowed in Section W, as the hidden calcs to allow this are pretty wild. As far as I can see though Toca, you are reading and understanding everything well.)

...

Josh mentions about getting great beer above and that is the first thing to be assured of. The amount of measurement you have taken tells me that you take care and with that attitude and a robust recipe, it's really hard to go wrong. Josh then looks at the difference in Volume versus Gravity and most of that is cool by me. The only correction I would have (lecturer that I am :)) is that your kettle efficiency cannot be changed post-boil as there is no more sugar to be added or subtracted once the boil begins unless you physically throw in more sugar. (See this post for clarification and possibly that whole thread to get the context. It might take you a good 60 minutes or a couple of beers and slow reading to get everything in that thread.)

I was going to write more but there are lots of goodies in that thread and you are under much harder conditions than that thread as you are brewing a very high gravity beer in a very small kettle with two large full volume variations.

In fact, I think I ended up writing the above link after answering a question of yours in the main pre-release BIABacus thread where you asked on how efficiency is calculated. Before answering that question properly, it's really important to understand the basic principle of a "sugar score"* which you'll find in that thread above.

;)
PP

*It's essential understanding to locating where a problem in the brewing process lies. Section P shows your efficiencies are actually all perfectly acceptable,especially on such a high gravity brew.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 22 Dec 2015, 23:07, edited 1 time in total.
If you have found the above or anything else of value on BIABrewer.info, consider supporting us by getting some BIPs!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Australia

Post #8 made 9 years ago
Thank you guys for the insight and kind words.
With so many layers that entangle each other,its good to have someone to clear out the perspective.
To answer MS, and to clarify further, my FVV routine was, after the mashing, i let the bag drain for a while into the kettle and then soak it in the second vessel that contained water heated up to 75 C,( it is usualy around 4,5 liters that i entered into Biabacus as "WATER USED IN SPARGE" ) and soaked it there for 10 min. After that i let the bag drain again and squeeze a bit more..and put all that from the second vessel into the boiling kettle and start..
1 liter added to the fermentor was a volume of my starter, since i didnt know where else to record that.
With this brew i didnt use a second vessel to soak the bag, i just heated 4 liters and poured it slowly onto the mash while the bag was sitting on top ,draining.
PP , sugar score was something i undestood after you pointed it out, as well as all the info in the mentioned thread ,which i often go back to, for reference. :salute:

Post #9 made 9 years ago
Okey dokey... The first thing to recognise is that you "sugar score" (kettle efficiency) is fine. It's within a few percent of what was predicted. You state though
I ended up with the similar volume but much lower OG.
Firstly, some info and then I'll ask some more questions...

Info

In both cases you were actually sparging. If you can't full volume brew and have to sparge due to a small kettle, then, given a choice between a sparge that soaks the grain before lautering (draining), you will get a higher kettle efficiency as compared to
pouring it slowly onto the mash while the bag was sitting on top, draining (lautering).
The former method will give you a better result for two reasons. Firstly, you are, in reality, extending the mash time. Secondly, you are doing a far more even lauter as no "channelling" result.

So, hopefully, that answers one of your main questions.

My Questions

Q1. Do you have good enough records yet to know if your VAW is consistently higher than that predicted?
Q2. What was the predicted OG of the recipes you brewed before? (Were they all as high as big as this 1.069 recipe?)

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 23 Dec 2015, 19:41, edited 1 time in total.
If you have found the above or anything else of value on BIABrewer.info, consider supporting us by getting some BIPs!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Australia

Post #10 made 9 years ago
A1. I dont have good enough records yet,since it's my 4ht brew and previos ones,usualy lacked one or two measurements,being a newbie that i am,and concentrating more on the process.
A2. my two first brews i designed myself and first was planned lower ,but ended on 1.070,due to me not adding Full volume variations,and ending up 4 liters less VAW.Second was planned at 1.053 ,and i ended up 1.052) ,third was a Founders porter clone planned on 1.068 ended 1.066.
Thats,in fact, is all the brewing experience i got so far;)
Post Reply

Return to “BIABrewer.info and BIAB for New Members”

Brewers Online

Brewers browsing this forum: No members and 42 guests