BIABacus Question - on malt calculations

Post #1 made 10 years ago
I want to make an English Bitter. (No Short Measure in the BCS book). Put the calculations in and went to my LHBS today. For my 5.5 gallons into fermenter, it had me cut the 8 lbs. of pale malt to 6.88 lbs. The 0.5 lbs. of Crystal 120L cut to 0.43 lbs., and the Special Roast 50L cut from 0.25 lbs. to 0.21 lbs.

At the LHBS today, it was a little difficult to get that exact so rounded the Maris Otter to 7 lbs. And the Crystal 120L kept at 0.5 lbs. and Special Roast at 0.25 lbs.

Tried to adjust the BIABacus and when I took the original recipe and adjusted the steeping malts so that it reflected 0.5 and 0.25 in the final recipes, it cut down the pale ale malt. This didn't make sense to me. Then when I went and adjusted pale ale malt to reflect the 7 lbs., it cut the steeping malts back down... What's the secret here...?
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Post #2 made 10 years ago
The book is based on a 70% deficiency, page 40. We set the VAW to 21.82L for Section D. You will find it will "balance" that way.

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Post #3 made 10 years ago
I may have the wrong end of the stick here Scott, but are you trying to add the weights you actually have into the Biabacus to determine what you will end up with in terms of gravity etc?

If so, what I would do is "goal seek" (20 questions) the O.G. value until your original & what you will use sections match.
The BIABacus can be utilised in all scenarios but it is set up "conventionally" as a scaler. When you see the malts being cut back, you are seeing the BIABacus working it's magic in trying to match your original recipe & gravity to "what you will use."

Does any of that make sense?
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Post #5 made 10 years ago
Following mally's and M_S's suggestions ...


Set your "for this batch, I'd like to try an OG of" ... to 1.0389, and this will get your grains roughly to what you purchased. It'll be only 14g less for the special roast, and 28g less on the crystal. Pretty trivial, IMO.

File added for everyone's convenience.

The calculated amounts are based on ratio/proportion, so you're not going to get everything the same (because your LHBS rounded it all up, which destroyed the ratio).
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Post #6 made 10 years ago
Thanks Gentlemen.

So when trying to make the malt mix match what you well and up getting, just increase the OG. This will get it close.

Frequently hops line up a little different and what I have been doing is just going back and changing the original recipe according to the BIABacus. That seems to work. Obviously the same fix is not a fix with malt.

Thanks again.
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Post #7 made 10 years ago
I'm pretty much incapacitated atm Scott (everything in my body is sore, including my brain!) but thought the following post might help everyone...

Talking in Analogies

I taught thinking skills for nearly 15 years and one of the most efficient ways of teaching is to use analogies. This thread is a good example of how an analogy can be used to create understanding. The whole point of this site (and a tool such as the BIABacus) is to provide knowledge plus understanding (wisdom).

All the answers above are correct (good on ya guys ;)) but I'm hoping that this post might not only help you with your understanding but also help the most generous members above maybe answer questions like yours faster (probably take them more time actually :) :roll:).

Firstly

The BIABacus works on best practices in it's design. In other words, it's based on the principle, I want to make this beer, what do I need to do it? To put it more simply, let's pretend the BIABacus was a simple instant coffee designer. You would type in that you like two teaspoons of sugar in your coffee and that a teaspoon equaled 5 grams and your coffee mug held 225mls of hot water. No matter what sort of size or shape teaspoon or coffee mug someone gave you, the BIABacus would make sure you always ended up with the coffee you like.

///// Ignore next bit.

Every other bit of brewing software (my brain has had it atm but I'm pretty sure this is absolutely correct) asks you to add ingredients first and then says, "That's a bit more sugar than you like" or "That's a bit more instant coffee than you like" etc, etc. It becomes a game of twenty questions and it is done because it makes the programming extremely easy. It is not only at the expense of having to play twenty questions but it is also at the expense of reflecting reality.////
Tried to adjust the BIABacus and when I took the original recipe and adjusted the steeping malts so that it reflected 0.5 and 0.25 in the final recipes, it cut down the pale ale malt. This didn't make sense to me.
Imagine if you liked two teaspoons of sugar in your coffee but you liked 1.0 tsp of white sugar, 0.75 tsp of brown sugar and 0.25 tsp of raw sugar. If you added 1 tsp of brown sugar and 0.5 tsp of raw sugar, your "CoffeeAbacus" would say, only add 0.5 tsp of white sugar please to get the same level of 'sweetness' you desire. Other coffee software would just result in you ending up with a much sweeter coffee.

A real understanding

What worries me mainly about this thread though Scott is that I want you to be seeing that a beer recipe works more on percentages of malts rather than weights. That is the first major understanding and one that all other software actually totally fucks up in many ways. (Check this site for posts on "colour versus flavour" for one of the less obvious examples). The hops side is a tad more complicated but my interest in your question is to get you back to basics. The BIABacus tells you what weight of what quality hops to add. This should be easy but your last post above tells me there is something we are not teaching you properly*.

Let's keep this thread going Scott until things snap into place** ;),
PP

* Going back and adjusting the original recipe is the equivalent of pushing your hydrometer down in the jar (or pulling it up) until you get the right reading.
** I'll make this the only thread I read atm but please don't expect a reply. The above's done me in for a few days at least (I think I have Ross River virus or something). The guys who have answered here already can hopefully help but, then again, long answers take so much time.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 04 Sep 2015, 20:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #8 made 10 years ago
Scott. I completely understand what you are doing. I live 3 hrs from the nearest decent lbs and order my ingredients online. I have to order in 1lb increments. I decide on a style I want to brew and aim for something in the style range. I actually use brewr to ballpark my recipe then tweak it in the Biabacus entering pound or half pound increments. I don't have sacks of grain around nor do I want small amounts left over at the end if the day. I play around with the OG section of the biabacus to match what I have on hand. My coffee doesn't have to be exact. I really only use the biabacus to get my water amounts and to track my brewday numbers.
Even if you were to measure out your grains exactly to the kernel; there no guarantee you are going to get exactly the beer the biabacus told you.Your coffee isn't going to be exact.
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Post #9 made 10 years ago
Thank you gentlemen.

Pat - appreciate the detailed response. It will take me some more read throughs and I may need to post more and hope the guys can continue to point me in the right direction. Like I've said before, really seems the BIABacus is like an onion with many layers...

Lumpy - that is a similar thought... I actually "try" to get things as exact as possible. (It never is, always a lagging thing, but it seems that's the best strategy). Go in to LHBS and try to measure things as good as possible. But most don't have scales that are real easy to use (not digital, etc.). Would be a real pain to be limited to 1 lbs increments with all ordered online... With the additional brewing I've considered migrating to buying 55 lbs bags of grain. But then I would need a grain mill too... Not for now... Need more Corney kegs and Perlick Fawcetts next. :smoke:

It would be helpful to be able to tweak the recipe somehow when you have to make other ingredient changes. I appreciate the tip to increase the OG - that helps fix at least the base malt - the biggest part of the grain bill. In a perfect world could balance all variables, but maybe in a spreadsheet that would end up messing up other important elements...
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Post #10 made 10 years ago
Well I read through everything again... Not that difficult. Basically, the BIABacus is great at scaling an existing recipe for BIAB. It's not really a recipe creation software. But if you have a proven recipe, and know enough details about it, it is a great tool to help copy it as well as it ever can be copied, and scale it to your brewing equipment. (Well...maybe you can just put in your recipe and then use the OG and batch size to modify...)

Every time I brew, get to know the BIABacus a little better... BIAB #7 was yesterday. Haven't had a time where things worked flawless. Always are #s, etc that don't work out perfect. But so far, even while my process has never been perfect, each brew has tasted very good. So I'm happy about that. Feel like the software gives me more control over the process.
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Post #11 made 10 years ago
Scott wrote:...Basically, the BIABacus is great at scaling an existing recipe for BIAB. It's not really a recipe creation software. But if you have a proven recipe, and know enough details about it, it is a great tool to help copy it as well as it ever can be copied, and scale it to your brewing equipment. (Well...maybe you can just put in your recipe and then use the OG and batch size to modify...)

Every time I brew, I get to know the BIABacus a little better...
The next step Scott is in understanding the recipe creation side and how the BIABacus is actually a far safer recipe creation software than anything else. Here's why...

1. Other software leads the new user to think that if the OG, colour and IBU's fall in the acceptable range for a beer style, then that beer style will be produced.
2. Other software often (usually) has very faulty formulas.
3. Designing a beer (determining the ingredients and their management) needs to be done consciously, a computer can't do it. For example, software is not going to tell you whether to add Hop A or Hop B (or at what point) to give flavour C. Similiarly, whilst any Crystal or Caramel malt can be used to add colour, not all of them can be added to produce an individual flavour characteristic.

That's another layer of the BIABacus Scotty. If you see it failing in an area, there is probably a good reason why.

;)
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 07 Sep 2015, 19:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #12 made 10 years ago
Thanks PP. Will stick with others' recipes for now, but glad to hear the software can handle it for the day I decide to step outside into the recipe creation arena.
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