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Trying my first mini-BIABs tomorrow, excited and nervous!

Post #1 made 10 years ago
by phishie
Hi BIABer's -

First of all, thank you all for the incredible resource, your Forums have immensely helped me prepare for my brew day tomorrow!

I'm planning to brew two 1 US gallon mini-BIAB brews tomorrow: a Flower Power Clone and a Kentucky Common.

I've attached the two BIABacus recipes I completed for these recipes and was hoping I might get a review of them to ensure I haven't messed anything up too badly.

I'll be brewing both of these in a 3 US gallon pot (separately of course hah!), that should be large enough right? Also, is it worthwhile to measure a couple gallons into my pot and boil for an hour to measure its actual boil off, or are the BIABacus' estimated numbers good enough?

The original Flower Power clone recipe has a 175F degree sparge and the original Kentucky Common recipe has a 168F degree sparge. Do you think it'd be good to do 175F and 168F degree mash outs after my 90 minute boils for these recipes done as BIAB?

*Edit 1*
Another question I forgot to include:
Based on advice here I should mash my grains for 90 minutes, correct? Does that mean my boil time after mashing should remain at 60 minutes (same as original recipes) or should boil time also be extended to 90 minutes?
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Last edited by phishie on 22 Aug 2015, 01:03, edited 1 time in total.

Post #2 made 10 years ago
by Rick
Yum, flower power is one of my favorites.

While the BIABacus is pretty accurate for me as far as boil off it can vary depending on environmental changes. It would be a good idea to test it, because being off by just a little for a small batch can mean a LOT to the final product. Larger batches are very forgiving in this regard, smaller batches are much more difficult and require as much care as you are willing to give.

168 or 175 degree mash out will be fine for either, I wouldn't sweat that step.
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
by Rick
I see your edit.

Mash for 90 minutes, if only to remove a variable. If you miss your OG on the low side you will regret a 60 minute mash.

We generally preach 90 minutes boil here as a catch all for recipes with pils malt (to drive off SMM). Also, you will need more total water in the mash(or sparge) to account for added boil time, which generally helps with kettle efficiency on higher gravity recipes.

Neither are necessary here, but I would do 90 for each.
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Post #4 made 10 years ago
by phishie
Rick wrote:I see your edit.

Mash for 90 minutes, if only to remove a variable. If you miss your OG on the low side you will regret a 60 minute mash.

We generally preach 90 minutes boil here as a catch all for recipes with pils malt (to drive off SMM). Also, you will need more total water in the mash(or sparge) to account for added boil time, which generally helps with kettle efficiency on higher gravity recipes.

Neither are necessary here, but I would do 90 for each.
Awesome, thank you! For the hop additions should I stick to the original schedule? So despite extending the boil to 90 minutes I'll still do first hop addition at 60 minutes?
Last edited by phishie on 22 Aug 2015, 01:22, edited 1 time in total.

Post #5 made 10 years ago
by phishie
Also, I calculated the grain:water ratio for both for kicks and came up with following:

Flower Power
9.92 quarts water
2.88 pounds grain
1 lb : 3.45 quart

KYC
9.56 quarts water
1.71 pounds grain
1 lb : 5.59 quart

That seems crazy high, is that normal for BIABers here?

A little worried about fitting 2.5 gallons of water and 2.9 lbs of grain in a 3 gallon pot but admittedly I can't visualize how large 2.9 lbs of grain is (yet).

Post #6 made 10 years ago
by Rick
phishie wrote:
Rick wrote:I see your edit.

Mash for 90 minutes, if only to remove a variable. If you miss your OG on the low side you will regret a 60 minute mash.

We generally preach 90 minutes boil here as a catch all for recipes with pils malt (to drive off SMM). Also, you will need more total water in the mash(or sparge) to account for added boil time, which generally helps with kettle efficiency on higher gravity recipes.

Neither are necessary here, but I would do 90 for each.
Awesome, thank you! For the hop additions should I stick to the original schedule? So despite extending the boil to 90 minutes I'll still do first hop addition at 60 minutes?
Yup, just be extra careful of boil overs. There is very little difference in bittering from 60 to 90 minutes, so this is really a non issue.

Also, section w has an automatic liquor:grain calculator at the bottom already. Those numbers look fine to me, BIAB has thinner mashes by its very definition. It's not reasonable to compare with typical 3V ratios. The jury is still out as to whether this means anything in the final product, or not.
Last edited by Rick on 22 Aug 2015, 01:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #8 made 10 years ago
by phishie
Rick wrote:
phishie wrote:
Rick wrote:I see your edit.

Mash for 90 minutes, if only to remove a variable. If you miss your OG on the low side you will regret a 60 minute mash.

We generally preach 90 minutes boil here as a catch all for recipes with pils malt (to drive off SMM). Also, you will need more total water in the mash(or sparge) to account for added boil time, which generally helps with kettle efficiency on higher gravity recipes.

Neither are necessary here, but I would do 90 for each.
Awesome, thank you! For the hop additions should I stick to the original schedule? So despite extending the boil to 90 minutes I'll still do first hop addition at 60 minutes?
Yup, just be extra careful of boil overs. There is very little difference in bittering from 60 to 90 minutes, so this is really a non issue.

Also, section w has an automatic liquor:grain calculator at the bottom already. Those numbers look fine to me, BIAB has thinner mashes by its very definition. It's not reasonable to compare with typical 3V ratios. The jury is still out as to whether this means anything in the final product, or not.
Thank you - makes sense. And yea, of course I found that in the BIABacus after calculating it!
Last edited by phishie on 22 Aug 2015, 01:37, edited 1 time in total.

Post #10 made 10 years ago
by Rick
phishie wrote:Looks like Section X (Change Evaporation Rate to:) is where I adjust the boil off rate (if I find mine is different)?

Yeah. Generally it's best to leave that alone for a few brews until a trend is revealed, but I dunno ... I'd probably test and then change it immediately for 1 gallon batches.
Last edited by Rick on 22 Aug 2015, 01:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #11 made 10 years ago
by phishie
Rick wrote:
phishie wrote:Looks like Section X (Change Evaporation Rate to:) is where I adjust the boil off rate (if I find mine is different)?

Yeah. Generally it's best to leave that alone for a few brews until a trend is revealed, but I dunno ... I'd probably test and then change it immediately for 1 gallon batches.
Cool, will do.

Is there a place to adjust the fill height to volume measurements? I haven't checked yet but in case the calculated ones are off.
Last edited by phishie on 22 Aug 2015, 02:08, edited 1 time in total.

Post #12 made 10 years ago
by Rick
Kettle Shape Height/Volume Adjustment for that stuff (sec. X). Keggle guys use those adjustments, as well as folks who have baskets that displace some volume. If your kettle is reasonably cylindrical, you will be surprised at its accuracy. Just be sure to measure the kettle well, and take brew day measurements from the center (just in case you aren't completely level).
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Post #13 made 10 years ago
by phishie
Any "extras" you think I should include? E.g. Whirlfloc, Irish Moss, Yeast Nutrient, etc? The Flower Power calls for Irish Moss so I'll add it in that recipe.

Going to use bottled spring water without any additions.. water chemistry is an insane topic I waded knee deep into then ran far away from.

Also going to do 1 sachet of rehydrated yeast for each brew... seems overkill but should be ok? Considering these are only 1 US gal brews I'm a little concerned about the required water necessary to rehydrate a full sachet going into the wort.

Post #14 made 10 years ago
by Rick
Yeast nutrient isn't necessary for all grain. As far as clarifying agents, I have forgotten to use them enough times and ended up with clear beer anyway. I still toss it in when I remember, but probably won't buy more when I run out. YMMV.

I would try to find reverse osmosis water in your area if you can. Primo water from Walmart will work, M_S had this worked out recently. If there was more time I could do the water profiles for you, but I will be leaving my PC for the weekend starting in just a few short moments.

1 sachet will be 5x what is needed for even the IPA. You do not want to overpitch by that much for many reasons. I can't get into that right now, but a quick forum search should come up with good results on that.

Here is a pitching rate calculator ... http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

1/4 of a 11.5g packet for each will be plenty according to that calculator. When I do 1G brews, I shake it up and sprinkle it in dry on top of the bubbles. This gives it a chance to rehydrate before sinking into the beer.
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Post #15 made 10 years ago
by phishie
Rick wrote:Yeast nutrient isn't necessary for all grain. As far as clarifying agents, I have forgotten to use them enough times and ended up with clear beer anyway. I still toss it in when I remember, but probably won't buy more when I run out. YMMV.

I would try to find reverse osmosis water in your area if you can. Primo water from Walmart will work, M_S had this worked out recently. If there was more time I could do the water profiles for you, but I will be leaving my PC for the weekend starting in just a few short moments.

1 sachet will be 5x what is needed for even the IPA. You do not want to overpitch by that much for many reasons. I can't get into that right now, but a quick forum search should come up with good results on that.

Here is a pitching rate calculator ... http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1/4 of a 11.5g packet for each will be plenty according to that calculator. When I do 1G brews, I shake it up and sprinkle it in dry on top of the bubbles. This gives it a chance to rehydrate before sinking into the beer.
Awesome, thank you again - saved me from some grievous errors. If I use R/O water wouldn't I need to add mineral/salts to it? I'll do a search on the forum to see if I can find the details with the Primo water.
Last edited by phishie on 22 Aug 2015, 03:11, edited 1 time in total.

Post #16 made 10 years ago
by Rick
phishie wrote:
Rick wrote:Yeast nutrient isn't necessary for all grain. As far as clarifying agents, I have forgotten to use them enough times and ended up with clear beer anyway. I still toss it in when I remember, but probably won't buy more when I run out. YMMV.

I would try to find reverse osmosis water in your area if you can. Primo water from Walmart will work, M_S had this worked out recently. If there was more time I could do the water profiles for you, but I will be leaving my PC for the weekend starting in just a few short moments.

1 sachet will be 5x what is needed for even the IPA. You do not want to overpitch by that much for many reasons. I can't get into that right now, but a quick forum search should come up with good results on that.

Here is a pitching rate calculator ... http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1/4 of a 11.5g packet for each will be plenty according to that calculator. When I do 1G brews, I shake it up and sprinkle it in dry on top of the bubbles. This gives it a chance to rehydrate before sinking into the beer.
Awesome, thank you again - saved me from some grievous errors. If I use R/O water wouldn't I need to add mineral/salts to it? I'll do a search on the forum to see if I can find the details with the Primo water.
Yep, CaCl and gypsum will get you where you need to be. Download the free version of brun'water, you seem pretty adept at understanding complicated spreadsheets. Dial up the RO to 100% and it becomes a much easier program to deal with.

Spring water will work as well, it's just a gamble. So many people fall short on their OG, and most do not address the water issue for mash pH. If you have the time and patience go for the RO and download that spreadsheet. If not, spring water is always an option. I did it in the beginning for my first 2 brews and had reasonable success, but not everyone is so lucky.
Last edited by Rick on 22 Aug 2015, 03:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #17 made 10 years ago
by phishie
Rick wrote:
phishie wrote:
Rick wrote:Yeast nutrient isn't necessary for all grain. As far as clarifying agents, I have forgotten to use them enough times and ended up with clear beer anyway. I still toss it in when I remember, but probably won't buy more when I run out. YMMV.

I would try to find reverse osmosis water in your area if you can. Primo water from Walmart will work, M_S had this worked out recently. If there was more time I could do the water profiles for you, but I will be leaving my PC for the weekend starting in just a few short moments.

1 sachet will be 5x what is needed for even the IPA. You do not want to overpitch by that much for many reasons. I can't get into that right now, but a quick forum search should come up with good results on that.

Here is a pitching rate calculator ... http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1/4 of a 11.5g packet for each will be plenty according to that calculator. When I do 1G brews, I shake it up and sprinkle it in dry on top of the bubbles. This gives it a chance to rehydrate before sinking into the beer.
Awesome, thank you again - saved me from some grievous errors. If I use R/O water wouldn't I need to add mineral/salts to it? I'll do a search on the forum to see if I can find the details with the Primo water.
Yep, CaCl and gypsum will get you where you need to be. Download the free version of brun'water, you seem pretty adept at understanding complicated spreadsheets. Dial up the RO to 100% and it becomes a much easier program to deal with.

Spring water will work as well, it's just a gamble. So many people fall short on their OG, and most do not address the water issue for mash pH. If you have the time and patience go for the RO and download that spreadsheet. If not, spring water is always an option. I did it in the beginning for my first 2 brews and had reasonable success, but not everyone is so lucky.

Whew daddy :cry: , that is a details XLS. Just started playing with it.

Any suggested profile to use for both beers? A "good all around" profile of some kind? It's defaulted to "Yellow Balanced" right now.
Last edited by phishie on 22 Aug 2015, 03:34, edited 1 time in total.

Post #18 made 10 years ago
by phishie
To KISS this time around I think I'm going to use RO water for both with the following additions:

Flower Power: (per 5 gallons) 1 teaspoon calcium chloride dihydrate, 1 teaspoon gypsum
Kentucky Common: (per 5 gallons) 1 teaspoon calcium chloride dihydrate

*edit*

I was reading through a KISS primer on water here: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460 which is leading me to believe I should do the following:

100% RO Water
1 teaspoon Calcium Chloride Dihydrate / 5 gallons
1 teaspoon Gypsum / 5 gallons
2% Sauermalz (of total grain bill)

Should be a good starting point to make a decent brew, no?
Last edited by phishie on 22 Aug 2015, 04:16, edited 1 time in total.

Post #19 made 10 years ago
by Rick
ajdelange is one of my favorite posters over there, looks great to me. It'll get you started,and he points you in the right direction onward.

As far as Bru'n Water profiles, I dig the pale ale profile for my ipa's. I don't try to hit 300 ppm sulfates though, mid 200's seems to work best for my tastes. Really though, above that I cannot tell a difference. Yellow balanced for a hoppy beer is just fine, but the pale ale really helps with flavor separation and perception of bitterness.
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Post #21 made 10 years ago
by Rick
phishie wrote:Is the sauermalz really necessary?
It looks like that protocol is designed to get you under 5.5 mash ph, so yeah I would use it for the lighter beer. The ipa might be alright though, as there are more grains to bring that one down more.

Weyermann acidulated malt is what seems to be most available in my area. Instead of the sauermalz method, you could always just look into adding the lactic acid yourself.
Last edited by Rick on 22 Aug 2015, 06:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #22 made 10 years ago
by phishie
Rick wrote:
phishie wrote:Is the sauermalz really necessary?
It looks like that protocol is designed to get you under 5.5 mash ph, so yeah I would use it for the lighter beer. The ipa might be alright though, as there are more grains to bring that one down more.

Weyermann acidulated malt is what seems to be most available in my area. Instead of the sauermalz method, you could always just look into adding the lactic acid yourself.
Yea, unfortunately it looks like I can only get my hands on lactic acid. Now to figure out the conversion from sauermalz to lactic acid.
Last edited by phishie on 22 Aug 2015, 07:45, edited 1 time in total.

Post #23 made 10 years ago
by phishie
So my lessons learned from Brew Day:

1. Use a checklist that spans the entire brew time, then you won't make the mistakes I did.
2. Don't add hops during the mash rather than the boil, aka don't get too excited and perform steps out of sequence. See #1.
3. Add your water mineral salts prior to the mash and boil, not after! See #2 and #1.
4. Don't overfill your fermentor, you'll need a blow off tube then, which I have now.
5. Make sure your fridge/incubator is set to the proper temperature, aka 62 not 32.
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