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Dry Irish Stout - Dark Amber Color (Not Black)

Post #1 made 10 years ago
by Scott
I used the BCS book recipe. My 4th BIAB. Overall went pretty well but I undershot my OG. Was 1.038 instead of 1.041. A couple things, and will chalk it up to user error. Evaporation not what it has been (dialed back boil a little bit) and put a little too much water in the brew kettle.

Light in alcohol - 3.7% ABV or so - and really easy to drink. But the color is too light. 1 lbs. Black Roasted Barley, and in the book they say to "run it through a coffee mill or use a rolling pin to turn it almost to dust". The LHBS guy helping me claimed to be a stout expert and didn't think that was necessary. Instead we ran it through the mill 3 times. Seemed pretty "fine" in size to me. Anyway, the color really isn't quite the Black Color you expect with stout. More like a Dark Amber. Wondered if anyone had experience with the color issue and had input... Maybe it is as simple as "use a rolling pin and turn it to powder"... :?

Well, it tastes good. Certainly is going to get drank. Glad I used British Maris Otter for base malt instead of American 2-row... Think I need to brew more BEER... Dial in a bunch of little things and continue to get more comfortable with BIAB... In fact, I have plans to add a 4th Perlick faucet to my beer fridge and 5th five gallon Corney keg. (But that opens another "can of worms" and I may have to drill a hole through and mount the CO2 bottle somewhere outside of the fridge).

American Pale Ale is next on the list. Got to use some of those Cascade hops I harvested last year...but need a fifth Corney or there is no room. :think:
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Post #2 made 10 years ago
by BDP
Hi Scott,

I brewed the same recipe last year. I ran the (Bairds) black roast barley (500L) through my coffee grinder to roughly the same particulate size as you would for filter coffee, i.e. quite fine. This grain represented 10% of the total grain bill, and was mashed in for the full 90 minutes with the Maris Otter and flaked barley, but added last. I have low alkaline water, and the pH dropped to 5.3 in the first 10 minutes of the mash. Fermented with Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale yeast, and bottle conditioned.

The end result was a solid black color, and I was very happy with the flavor profile: dry and roasted, with the flaked barley rounding it out nicely. I would suggest that the next time you brew this, try the coffee grinder approach.

Otherwise, I'm glad you like the beer. Next stout I brew will be the oatmeal stout from BCS. Have you tried that one yet?

Cheers

Post #3 made 10 years ago
by Scott
Yeah, maybe so... At the time it looked to be a pretty fine grind, but maybe not as fine as a coffee mill. Looks like I should do that next time. I added all the grain together at the start of the mash but read (after brewing) where Palmer (or Jamil) was suggesting doing the 500L at the end of the mash so it wasn't too bitter. Sounds like you did that. At what point in the mash did you add it? If end, at mash out? Did same Wyrast yeast. I am happy with the result but it can be improved. And 3.7% ABV fills a hole in my lineup...something "lower-ish" in alcohol.

I have not done an Oatmeal Stout yet but was considering it. Sounded smooth... You'll have to let me know how it turns out!
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Post #4 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Scott,

ALL Non-Mashable Grains should be "Stewed", for at least 30 minutes, around 160F to 172F(Mash-out)

So, if you have any grains, Roast or Caramel, you can Add them at 30 minutes or more before Mash-out, and get all the Flavor, and Sugars that are there.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #5 made 10 years ago
by BDP
Hi Scott,

The roast barley went into the mash for the full 90 minutes, but it was the last grain that I mashed in. Hope that clarifies.

Adding to Joshua's post, I've also read that you can 'cold steep' the roast barley overnight, and add the strained liquid later. Not 100% when that would be added - I'd have to check my reference - but would guess towards the end of the boil. This technique is supposed to prevent 'acrid' flavors, but I didn't perceive this in my beer. Personally, I'll continue to add the roast barley at mash-in, since it helped get the mash pH into the desirable range, and saves me having to play with additional water volume calculations (if using the cold steep method). BIAB is supposed to be nice and simple, after all. :thumbs:

Cheers

Post #6 made 10 years ago
by Scott
BDP - I'm still confused. You say you mashed the roast barley for the whole 90 minutes but it was the last grain you mashed in... Just not getting the feel for the process you are doing unless you put all your grains in the bag like I did and mashed everything together. Is that what you did? You say the 500L was the last grain added but it was mashed 90 minutes. How much longer the other get mashed?

Joshua - I think I understand what you mean... But I have never heard the term "non-mashable grains". Think you are saying the roast barley (and other grains like caramel) are not malted so do not add to the fermentable grain bill; taste only. So these non-fermentable grains can be added as little at 30 min before mash-out... Is it be a problem adding them with the other grains at the start of the mash for simplicity sake?
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Post #7 made 10 years ago
by BDP
Scott - sorry if my explanation is misleading. At mash in time, I added the regular milled grain, stirring well, and then immediately after that (so about a minute later) I added the finely ground roast barley. So all in at 90 minutes, or as close as dammit ;) , but in that order. Having said that, you can see that the order is not important in this case, so I should not have clouded the picture in the first place. :headhit:

I'll chirp in on Joshua's post regarding the 30 minute addition of 'steeping grains', e.g. crystal, etc., but he's got much more experience than I have at this. If you look at steeping grain additions to extract recipes (see appendix B of BCS), you'll see that they are steeped for 30 minutes only. For all-grain recipes, these grains are added to the mash tun for convenience.

Cheers
BDP

Post #8 made 10 years ago
by mally
Just bear in mind that your method of adding crystal/roasted malts can have an effect on what you achieve.
Many people think that crystal malts will give you a fixed "sugar" profile, but this depends on what you do with them. Cold/hot steeping (without any enzymes present) and adding directly to the boil will preserve that profile.

Darker roasted malts see less effect, but if you mash them (with a base malt), there will be some conversion if the enzymes are still active.

If you want to read up on an interesting experiment see Nilo's experiment
Last edited by mally on 24 Apr 2015, 14:59, edited 1 time in total.
G B
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I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
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Post #9 made 10 years ago
by joshua
Mally Good read.
Image
To answer Scott you can mash All Grains, but be careful how much Black Barley you add at mash.

Black barley has a lot of Carbon(it has been burned at bit), and can add a charcoal taste to the beer.
Image
To see what I mean as Non-mashable,
Image
see http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and check the "(may be steeped or mashed)" grains.
Last edited by joshua on 24 Apr 2015, 19:56, edited 1 time in total.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #10 made 10 years ago
by Scott
I guess I had been under the understanding that all malted grains are fermentable and non-malted are not... That still appears to be the case however not everything is fermentable at the same level (and that is not really a surprise either...).

Nilo's experiment was interesting. A little "thick", like a lot of this stuff, but interesting. Looked to me that crystal malt is fermentable but less so than 2-row...

Joshua, with the steeped vs, mashed, Palmer talked about steeping grains added "freshness" to malt extract. And I guess I used to steep grains when I brewed with malt extract. Been mashing everything together since then. But I see that with the stout it might be a good idea to steep the 500 L roasted barley.

Thanks guys...
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